Seek Advice re Well Water Pump, turning on and off

[PhuketSarah]

Seems to only be when the last faucet on the line is on, in the bathroom

The pump  pic 1 switches on and off rapidly, (every second) and the water stream  visibly pulses   Turning on a secondary water source in the house  alleviates the problem.  So... 

 I think the  pressure switch  pic 2 needs adjusting, I've seen an  electrician do it  with the screw  as shown in pic  3  but think last time I adjusted it for high water level, I over did it and have since forgotten which way to turn the screw to compensate  to a lower water level in the well.    Is it "Lower water...left turn"? 

 He also warned me about voltage and touching the adjuster, but I can swear he  turned the screws while it was running,  until it shut off and then  backed  up the turn  just a hair and that was how it was adjusted.. 

Can anyone  advise me please,  what is the procedure for setting this screw correctly?  Are those black marks meaningful? 

[RichCor]

Has the bathroom faucet always caused this issue? 

 

I would suggest first unplugging the pump from AC and draining the outflow line, as it's more probable the 'pressure tank' below the pump mechanism has lost its air cushion, become water logged, and stopped acting as a water pressure reserve vessel.

 

The 'pressure tank' allows a reserve amount of water to be retained and flow at pressure between pump activations. If the pressure tank loses its compressible air cushion then it no longer 'store' pressure, and you are only left with the pressure switch function chattering away at low water flows.

[PhuketSarah]

OK Thank you , This is recent development,  AND only on  bathroom faucets so do you still think it is the pressure in the tank?  

Can I ask  to clarify, ? By draining,   unplug electric - just open up the farthest faucets  and let it run to air?  Then I need to .. shut off the line, at the pump,    prime the pump with water if necessary,  run it  until it stops  then   open the line at the pump  and let it operate while bleeding air out of that far faucet?   

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by PhuketSarah

[Crossy]

You need to get air IN to the tank.

 

So shut off the inlet and power, then remove the outlet pipe and any drain plugs on the tank and any air inlets on the top. The aim is to get all the water out and then let it refill.

 

[ardsong]

what I do to refill the bottom tank with air

- disconnect from AC

- close the water inlet  line to pump

- close the water outlet line from pump to consumers

- open the plug on the bottomside of thebottom tank, mostly opposite the water inlet

- let all water run out and air go in the tank, this may take 15-30 minutes

- close the plug on the watertank

- open the water inlet and water outlet line

- if the water sump is lower than the pump you have to prime the pump by putting water in the top of the pump/piping

- connect to AC

 

n

[Gandtee]

I don't have a pump as shown in the pics but just today I drained the pressure tank to enable my pump to start. I do this ten minute job regularly. This could be your problem.

[Crossy]

It looks like our OP's pump has an automatic air bleed (the thing that looks like a gas regulator) which should keep the air topped up correctly. They sometimes need a little help (or fail completely) so a full drain down is the next step.

[steve73]

I've always added an extra buffer tank to my water systems here using a 2m length of 2" PVC pipe with 3 x 1/2" valves for fill, vent and drain.  Simply connect it reasonably close to the pump outlet, and it will provide a much larger pressure buffer than the pump's own tank, and can be easily drained down.

As to adjusting the pressure switch when connected, make sure you use a well insulated screwdriver as the switch is usually live (whether the pump is running or not).

[carlyai]

The adjuster screw is live....exciting if you touch with wet hands and an uninsulated screwdriver.
I think that's what your electrician meant.
There are these all metal small phillips screwdrivers, definitely throw them away.

Luckily long ago in Pattaya I adjusted one of these pump screws with an uninsulated screwdrive with wet hands. Tingle, nothing, Safety Cut trip.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[KKr]

does the pressure tank have anything somewhere that looks like the inflator of a tyre?
If so, put a few bar of air pressure in there, that will help as this would be the cushioning "balloon" that keeps the water pressured until the pumps kicks in at the regulator's preset (the screw) lower pressure . 

never seen this model before though, so my suggestion may be to advanced, but you could have an air inlet valve fixed I guess if the problem re-occurs frequently.

[RichCor]

On 11/4/2017 at 5:47 PM, KKr said:

does the pressure tank have anything somewhere that looks like the inflator of a tyre?

The OP's images were more focused on showing the Pressure Switch adjustment, so difficult to determine if the bottom pressure tank type is Open Air, Membrane, or Diaphragm (balloon) design ...though a seeing an actual Schrader air pressure valve would help.  

 

Water logging is more prevalent on the Open Air designs where the air and water chamber are one and the same, and the air pocket can dissolve into the water over time. If a Membrane or Diaphragm design pressure tank water logs that's more indicative of barrier failure and more likely the entire pressure tank or pump system would need replacing.  

 

[Gandtee]

I have an Hitachi pump which stopped pumping. After the local Mr. Fixit had a go at it and it still didn't work I downloaded the manufacturer's manual. Followed the instructions and fixed the problem in ten minutes. A simple draining of the tank periodically.Perhaps the poster should try doing the same. Contact the manufacturer. Hitachi's is in Thai and English.

[PhuketSarah]

Apologies I never came back to this thread and it's all great info which I am grateful for, thank you. Most of what is discussed  goes right through me  though. I guess the problem was high water in the well and it sorted itself out during the dry months  and now the problem is low water and lack of pressure, and an on-running pump.   

The pump has  small  metal tank below it and sits directly on top of the well with one tube.  (not jet?)  I think I understand the limitations of depth.   

 What I've done as Mr. Fixit  (sort of) showed me

 Turn the valve closed on the outlet  pipe that goes uphill about 60 meters to the house.   

 

 Let the pump run and pour water in the smaller water inlet  that suckles it  until the pump stops,  instantly  spewing water,  quickly turning  off the power  so as to get the stopper cap  screwed back on .  Turn on power and wait fingers crossed for about 30  seconds and pump stops  or it does not and  I repeat process.

So yeah, I think it's low water level and nothing to be done about it ?

 Works OK for about 24 hours  at a time.

 

Plumber (reluctantly) told me the screw goes left for low, about a half turn. I've seen him do this as the pump runs, and he adjusts it just so it turns off immediately as water faucet  is turned off  He installed a faucet right at the pump to facilitate this method,  and the power switch  is there, too. 

 I did just  yesterday adjust  pressure  ( # 39 on diagram  ) it with power off half turn to left  but  today it lost pressure again  - and just keeps running.

 My pump is a Frankenstein a local guy put together and sold cheap it has no name I can see   but   it's done well past it's duty already. 

 

Thanks  for all the replies 

(This diagram below  is borrowed from another thread to illustrate the type of switch, I have no idea of it is my model.)

Edited April 16, 2018 by PhuketSarah
Typos and such

[PhuketSarah]

Just had to do it again, and a correction to above, I  pour water in the larger of the two  screw capped "primer" openings  I suppose they'd be called ?  I've also seen the smaller inlet be used, what's the difference? 

 

Oh goody,  thunder. Please rain  hard for 3 days. 

[PhuketSarah]

On 11/2/2017 at 6:35 PM, ardsong said:

what I do to refill the bottom tank with air

- disconnect from AC

- close the water inlet  line to pump

- close the water outlet line from pump to consumers

- open the plug on the bottomside of thebottom tank, mostly opposite the water inlet

- let all water run out and air go in the tank, this may take 15-30 minutes

- close the plug on the watertank

- open the water inlet and water outlet line

- if the water sump is lower than the pump you have to prime the pump by putting water in the top of the pump/piping

- connect to AC

 

n

So my problem might be too much water in the tank? I thought it held water, it holds air. Ohhhh 

 

There does not seem to be a way to shut off the pipe that is from the well itself, I'd have to disconnect it entirely? 

And I see a place for a another outlet that is bolt shot, I'm to undo that too? 

 I should take more pics, thank you again.

[PhuketSarah]

On 11/2/2017 at 8:05 PM, Gandtee said:

I don't have a pump as shown in the pics but just today I drained the pressure tank to enable my pump to start. I do this ten minute job regularly. This could be your problem.

 

On 11/3/2017 at 2:19 PM, carlyai said:

The adjuster screw is live....exciting if you touch with wet hands and an uninsulated screwdriver.
I think that's what your electrician meant.
There are these all metal small phillips screwdrivers, definitely throw them away.

Luckily long ago in Pattaya I adjusted one of these pump screws with an uninsulated screwdrive with wet hands. Tingle, nothing, Safety Cut trip.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

Thanks for this reply, sorry to not seen it sooner. 

 

 Are there insulated screwdrivers?  I know he has the pump on while he tweaks the pressure switch, but he did warn me- I thought maybe to discourage my DIY'ness.

[sometimewoodworker]

19 hours ago, PhuketSarah said:

There does not seem to be a way to shut off the pipe that is from the well itself, I'd have to disconnect it entirely? 

Because you are sucking from a well there should be a foot valve at the bottom of the pipe and because the water level is lower than the pump you probably don't need to shut of the pipe from the well, only the feed pipe to the house.

[sometimewoodworker]

21 hours ago, PhuketSarah said:

Are there insulated screwdrivers?

Yes

[PhuketSarah]

On 4/17/2018 at 3:10 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Because you are sucking from a well there should be a foot valve at the bottom of the pipe and because the water level is lower than the pump you probably don't need to shut of the pipe from the well, only the feed pipe to the house.

The pipe at the bottom of the well?  No matter,  but  thank you for the  help. I ended up buying a new pump for under 2000 baht, which is what I should have done in the beginning, not sure why I thought it would cost 6,000 or more for a pump.  Tiny little thing too,  but pressure like never before.  

 

Cheers to all