Gym workout and protein intake

[Polanskiman]

Hello,

 

[Question here below is for those who have experience with gym / muscle gain and have had results.]

 

Got into gym again after 12 years of laziness. I'm now 97kg / 1.85m tall. I used to work hard but forgot all about it!

 

I'm now going to the gym 3 times a week 1h session each time.

 

Purpose: lose that extra fat , gain muscle and cut.

 

I have read around about protein intake and there seems to be a lot of varying opinions on the matter, but in general I have come the conclusion that it's somewhere around 2/3 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight. Is that within the 'normal' range?

 

Also are 3 hours per week enough or should be doing more than that?

 

Also if anyone could help in providing a general routine plan it would be appreciated. Perhaps maybe even some well established website where I could find that info.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Polanskiman

[connda]

Unless you're a professional, competition bodybuilder you need a lot less protein than you think you do.  Approximately 9% of your caloric input in the form of high quality protein.  For additional information look up the research by Dr. Valter Longo.  You should be able to find a wealth of info via a Internet search.  Also check out FoundMyFitness.  

[chicowoodduck]

The best exercise I can tell you is to do "table push-ups".....each time you get to the table push yourself away....????

 

And forget the hours in the gym....it is not how long your are there, it is what you do when you are there...less talk and more work.....it is not social hour like most of the expats I see in the gyms around Pattaya.....lol....and good luck and keep up the good work.....never easy and not all that fun, but you have a goal so stick to it....???

Edited November 7, 2017 by chicowoodduck

[connda]

34 minutes ago, chicowoodduck said:

The best exercise I can tell you is to do "table push-ups".....each time you get to the table push yourself away....????

 

Amd forget the hours in the gym....it is not how long your are there, it is what you do when you are there...less talk and more work.....it is not social hour like most of the expats I see in the gyms around Pattaya.....lol....and good luck and keep up the good work.....never easy and not all that fun, but you have a goal so stick to it....???

I've got to agree.  My average workout time with weight lifting is about 20 minutes.  I don't linger and sit on the weight rack taking up space like so many of the other morons do, who obviously are not serious about working out.  I often superset working opposing muscle masses without a break which also gives me an aerobic workout, or when working compound muscle masses, I knock out my sets to muscle fatigue, break for 1.5 to 2 minutes and hit another set.  I.e., work for intensity, get your workout finished, then go and flirt with the female eye candy or hang with your buddies.  I've got better things to do than sit in a gym for an hour.  Most people who I see spending that sort of time in the gym are socializing and not effectively working out. On days that I'm not lifting or resting, then I'm working aerobics.  If you're doing HIIT interval training, the same applies.  Warm up, stretch, do your intense interval training, and you're in the shower 20 minutes later, or talking with your buddies, or flirting with the eye candy which is a good way to cool down - well, cool your body down, you may be heating something else up  - nothing wrong with doing a light workout with an attractive friend post-workout <grin>.  Either way - your workout is done.  After your workout if you want to socialize, by all means, socialize.  

Edited November 7, 2017 by connda

[Bob12345]

Are you overweight (from fat) now?

If so, go for a caloric deficit to lose fat first. If your deficit is low you can simultanuously gain some muscle (newby gains).

 

Protein intake should be 1g/kg at least but better go higher as protein tend to fill you up making the caloric deficit easier to bare. 2-3g/kg shouldbe ideal. 

 

There are millions of training programs, but i would recommend you to focus on compound exercises in the 6-10 rep range. Do deadlifts, rows, pullups, military presses, benchpresses, squats, etc. Forget about wasting time on a tiny muscle in your upper back or one specific muscle in your triceps.

 

With 3 times a week you can do, for example, upper/lower body or a push/pull schedule.

 

If you have some spare time go for a 30-min walk outside or something on off days.

 

1 hour for 3 times a week should be fine to start with. You need to get it into your weekly schedule for the coming decades so better start slow and see where it takes you. Don't burn yourself out the first months and decide to get lazy again.

[Tony125]

Got to FaceBook and look up Garage Warrior, Alpha Nation, or Master Wong  for tips on staying in shape.

[Brunolem]

I used to be very well informed about this issue (training in a gym with guys competing at Mr Olympia).

 

The most important is not how much protein you eat, but when and how.

First, your body cannot absorb more than about 30 to 40 gr of proteins at once...which is why bodybuilders eat 5 or 6 meals a day, including in the middle of the night!

A good way to eat proteins is to drink shakes in which protein powder (on sale in specialized shops) has been mixed.

Otherwise it is difficult to find such a quantity of protein in normal food without having to ingest large quantities of fat and sugar at the same time.

 

Ideally, a shake should be drunk about 1 hour 30 minutes before training, because it is the time requested by the body to assimilate the proteins.

Another important shake is the one that is drunk just before going to sleep, because it is during the deep sleep that new muscle cells are built, and proteins must be available for that. 

More than 2 shakes a day is not necessary...that is good for the professionals only...

 

[Polanskiman]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

Are you overweight (from fat) now?

If so, go for a caloric deficit to lose fat first. If your deficit is low you can simultanuously gain some muscle (newby gains).

 

Protein intake should be 1g/kg at least but better go higher as protein tend to fill you up making the caloric deficit easier to bare. 2-3g/kg shouldbe ideal. 

 

There are millions of training programs, but i would recommend you to focus on compound exercises in the 6-10 rep range. Do deadlifts, rows, pullups, military presses, benchpresses, squats, etc. Forget about wasting time on a tiny muscle in your upper back or one specific muscle in your triceps.

 

With 3 times a week you can do, for example, upper/lower body or a push/pull schedule.

 

If you have some spare time go for a 30-min walk outside or something on off days.

 

1 hour for 3 times a week should be fine to start with. You need to get it into your weekly schedule for the coming decades so better start slow and see where it takes you. Don't burn yourself out the first months and decide to get lazy again.

Yes overweight. 25% fat mass according to the Tanita scale...

 

I had a PT for 5 sessions which came with the gym package. So far I have been doing 3 sets / 12 reps. Usually big muscle groups; 6/7 exercises and also 5/10 minutes cardio. I try to do extra cardio in between the training days when I can but that's not yet set in stone.

 

Thanks for all the info and advice.

[Polanskiman]

3 hours ago, connda said:

Unless you're a professional, competition bodybuilder you need a lot less protein than you think you do.  Approximately 9% of your caloric input in the form of high quality protein.  For additional information look up the research by Dr. Valter Longo.  You should be able to find a wealth of info via a Internet search.  Also check out FoundMyFitness.  

 

Thanks will look that up.

[Polanskiman]

3 hours ago, chicowoodduck said:

The best exercise I can tell you is to do "table push-ups".....each time you get to the table push yourself away....????

 

And forget the hours in the gym....it is not how long your are there, it is what you do when you are there...less talk and more work.....it is not social hour like most of the expats I see in the gyms around Pattaya.....lol....and good luck and keep up the good work.....never easy and not all that fun, but you have a goal so stick to it....???

Thanks. Well at least that reassures me. The only difficult side of doing gym in my opinion is when doing it alone. It's difficult to push yourself beyond the usual reps/sets etc, while when having someone with you it's easier. At least it's more challenging.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Polanskiman

[Polanskiman]

19 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

I used to be very well informed about this issue (training in a gym with guys competing at Mr Olympia).

 

The most important is not how much protein you eat, but when and how.

First, your body cannot absorb more than about 30 to 40 gr of proteins at once...which is why bodybuilders eat 5 or 6 meals a day, including in the middle of the night!

A good way to eat proteins is to drink shakes in which protein powder (on sale in specialized shops) has been mixed.

Otherwise it is difficult to find such a quantity of protein in normal food without having to ingest large quantities of fat and sugar at the same time.

 

Ideally, a shake should be drunk about 1 hour 30 minutes before training, because it is the time requested by the body to assimilate the proteins.

Another important shake is the one that is drunk just before going to sleep, because it is during the deep sleep that new muscle cells are built, and proteins must be available for that. 

More than 2 shakes a day is not necessary...that is good for the professionals only...

 

Thanks. Yes that what I had read around. Before working out and after as well. I found this sample menu on the net (http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/meal-plans/build-muscle-stay-lean-meal-plan?page=3) but honestly I don't see how one can eat that much day in and day out. Also the protein intake at each meal overpasses the 30/40 gr per serving. That menu seems for people who workout pretty hard and have plenty of time because with my schedule I don't see how I could that.

[Ron19]

An off topic post has been removed.

[transam]

I am now heading for 70, when younger did weights until a bone joint disease set in, did nothing for near 40 years. Because of the LOS climate l could leave out medication..

 

Couple of years back a "light" came on when a gym opened near me, l was putting on weight, even though l only eat once a day. Anyhooo, l went for it being very cautious to not aggravate my joints too much, just try and and get muscle back that has been dormant for years to bolster joints..

I do not take any supplements, just sure to have some protein in my one meal..

 

It was difficult at first, gave myself a goal to build traps and triceps, which l have, and the increase in strength has been amazing for this old fart..

 

The only thing I cannot get involved with is shoulder stuff, to painful, so l use machines to design my own workout, with a little help from the internet...

 

Makes me smile in the gym when the kids see the weight l can now shift. Above all, getting back in the gym and actually see results at my age is fab, and look forward to going just for an hour every couple of days..

This is about a year back, 2" off my waist since then, bigger traps now too...The Thai guy, my chum, was a pro kick boxer in his youth......

 

 

 

[Polanskiman]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

I am now heading for 70, when younger did weights until a bone joint disease set in, did nothing for near 40 years. Because of the LOS climate l could leave out medication..

 

Couple of years back a "light" came on when a gym opened near me, l was putting on weight, even though l only eat once a day. Anyhooo, l went for it being very cautious to not aggravate my joints too much, just try and and get muscle back that has been dormant for years to bolster joints..

I do not take any supplements, just sure to have some protein in my one meal..

 

It was difficult at first, gave myself a goal to build traps and triceps, which l have, and the increase in strength has been amazing for this old fart..

 

The only thing I cannot get involved with is shoulder stuff, to painful, so l use machines to design my own workout, with a little help from the internet...

 

Makes me smile in the gym when the kids see the weight l can now shift. Above all, getting back in the gym and actually see results at my age is fab, and look forward to going just for an hour every couple of days..

This is about a year back, 2" off my waist since then, bigger traps now too...The Thai guy, my chum, was a pro kick boxer in his youth......

Thanks for those inspiring lines. I guess the moral of the story is that it's never too late or too little.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Polanskiman said:

Thanks for those inspiring lines. I guess the moral of the story is that it's never too late or too little.

Absolutely, I am living proof....Must get Mrs.Trans to update some photos..

[bkk6060]

4 hours ago, connda said:

Unless you're a professional, competition bodybuilder you need a lot less protein than you think you do.  Approximately 9% of your caloric input in the form of high quality protein.  For additional information look up the research by Dr. Valter Longo.  You should be able to find a wealth of info via a Internet search.  Also check out FoundMyFitness.  

That is a five day high fat fasting diet once a month by Longo buy his food that they tested on a mice..

I think some type of a longer term recommendation would be more appropriate for the OP. 

[Jimmyjames120]

Use:  stronglifts 5x5. Pay the small amount for the app. Read everything inside it thoroughly and continue reading  over and over whenever you have a spare 5 minutes to remember it.

 

This program focuses on Squats, they don’t call it the King of exercises for nothing, 3 sessions a week, includes deadlift, bench press, a couple of others.

 

Dont deviate from the program or train on off days, these days are needed for recovery.

 

If you’ve never squatted before then start with 20kg, at 3 months you’ll be squatting 100kg, that’s heavy. If you follow the program seriously then from 20kg to 80kg will be comfortable, 80kg to 100kg is tough, over 100kg needs complete discipline and diet.

 

Initially don’t worry about protein intake, just eat healthy every meal and try to include protein rich foods in every meal, eggs, steak, fish, nuts etc etc, plenty of veg and leafy greens.  There is a saying in the fitness world, Abs are made in the kitchen, it’s true. 

 

And when people start to criticise that Squats and Deadlifts damage your back? Don’t listen, if you hurt yourself it’s because  you are doing the exercise wrong, these types of exercise are not easy to master, but when you do, the gains are incredible.

 

 

 

 

[transam]

Don't think us older guys should get involved with squats and dead lifts if using or aiming for using heavy weights..

[bkk6060]

25 minutes ago, Jimmyjames120 said:

Use:  stronglifts 5x5. Pay the small amount for the app. Read everything inside it thoroughly and continue reading  over and over whenever you have a spare 5 minutes to remember it.

 

This program focuses on Squats, they don’t call it the King of exercises for nothing, 3 sessions a week, includes deadlift, bench press, a couple of others.

 

Dont deviate from the program or train on off days, these days are needed for recovery.

 

If you’ve never squatted before then start with 20kg, at 3 months you’ll be squatting 100kg, that’s heavy. If you follow the program seriously then from 20kg to 80kg will be comfortable, 80kg to 100kg is tough, over 100kg needs complete discipline and diet.

 

Initially don’t worry about protein intake, just eat healthy every meal and try to include protein rich foods in every meal, eggs, steak, fish, nuts etc etc, plenty of veg and leafy greens.  There is a saying in the fitness world, Abs are made in the kitchen, it’s true. 

 

And when people start to criticise that Squats and Deadlifts damage your back? Don’t listen, if you hurt yourself it’s because  you are doing the exercise wrong, these types of exercise are not easy to master, but when you do, the gains are incredible.

 

 

 

 

I like your diet recommendations.

The rest gave me a hernia just thinking about it...

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, Polanskiman said:

Thanks. Yes that what I had read around. Before working out and after as well. I found this sample menu on the net (http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/meal-plans/build-muscle-stay-lean-meal-plan?page=3) but honestly I don't see how one can eat that much day in and day out. Also the protein intake at each meal overpasses the 30/40 gr per serving. That menu seems for people who workout pretty hard and have plenty of time because with my schedule I don't see how I could that.

You don't need to take that much.

It is useful only on training days...the other days, don't bother.

The thing is that the body doesn't store proteins...unfortunately, it prefers to store fat!

Proteins that are not used for muscle cells building are flushed right away, which is why the time of the intake is very important, and why the protein shakes before going to the gym and before going to bed are the ones that matter.

On top of that, since you carry too much weight, you gonna have to reduce as much as possible the carbo hydrates and sugars, and focus on grilled fish or white meat, fruits and vegetables, egg whites, low fat milk and yoghurts, and honey when you need a boost.

Keep up the good work and in 6 months the first results should show up...

[Jimmyjames120]

22 minutes ago, transam said:

Don't think us older guys should get involved with squats and dead lifts if using or aiming for using heavy weights..

You can Squat and deadlift at any age, doesn’t have to be heavy,  not sure what you mean us older guys,  OP doesn’t say his age but I’m 44 and after 3 months I’m squatting 107.5kg, bench 92.5 and deadlift 130.  If your in your 60,s and up then of course just light weights

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Jimmyjames120 said:

You can Squat and deadlift at any age, doesn’t have to be heavy,  not sure what you mean us older guys,  OP doesn’t say his age but I’m 44 and after 3 months I’m squatting 107.5kg, bench 92.5 and deadlift 130.  If your in your 60,s and up then of course just light weights

It was a "note" for older readers...

[bkk6060]

Just now, Brunolem said:

You don't need to take that much.

It is useful only on training days...the other days, don't bother.

The thing is that the body doesn't store proteins...unfortunately, it prefers to store fat!

Proteins that are not used for muscle cells building are flushed right away, which is why the time of the intake is very important, and why the protein shakes before going to the gym and before going to bed are the ones that matter.

On top of that, since you carry too much weight, you gonna have to reduce as much as possible the carbo hydrates and sugars, and focus on grilled fish or white meat, fruits and vegetables, egg whites, low fat milk and yoghurts, and honey when you need a boost.

Keep up the good work and in 6 months the first results should show up...

??

Your plan is fine but I would think he would show " first results" much sooner then 6 months.

More like after 1 month.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

??

Your plan is fine but I would think he would show " first results" much sooner then 6 months.

More like after 1 month.

Reality is very different from what they show in ads.

In this case, it's even more because the OP has to lose quite a lot of weight, and is going to train lightly.

Losing kilos can be done quickly, but not gaining them back and replacing them by muscle is a whole different story.

The body has its own "memory", built by the daily routine of each of us.

Changing that routine, as in going from sitting hours in front of the TV to hitting the gym, creates a shock that the body will absorb only progressively, and with time it will adjust its "memory" accordingly.

Finally, it all depends on each individual behavior, how one sticks to one's diet ad to one's training...the body is much faster at losing muscle and storing fat, than the other way round...one evening at Pizza Hut and its one week of training through the window!

[Polanskiman]

2 hours ago, Jimmyjames120 said:

Use:  stronglifts 5x5. Pay the small amount for the app. Read everything inside it thoroughly and continue reading  over and over whenever you have a spare 5 minutes to remember it.

 

This program focuses on Squats, they don’t call it the King of exercises for nothing, 3 sessions a week, includes deadlift, bench press, a couple of others.

 

Dont deviate from the program or train on off days, these days are needed for recovery.

 

If you’ve never squatted before then start with 20kg, at 3 months you’ll be squatting 100kg, that’s heavy. If you follow the program seriously then from 20kg to 80kg will be comfortable, 80kg to 100kg is tough, over 100kg needs complete discipline and diet.

 

Initially don’t worry about protein intake, just eat healthy every meal and try to include protein rich foods in every meal, eggs, steak, fish, nuts etc etc, plenty of veg and leafy greens.  There is a saying in the fitness world, Abs are made in the kitchen, it’s true. 

 

And when people start to criticise that Squats and Deadlifts damage your back? Don’t listen, if you hurt yourself it’s because  you are doing the exercise wrong, these types of exercise are not easy to master, but when you do, the gains are incredible.

 

Is that the 'StrongLifts 5x5 Workout Log' I see in the app store?

 

Thanks for all the great advice.

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Jimmyjames120 said:

Use:  stronglifts 5x5. Pay the small amount for the app. Read everything inside it thoroughly and continue reading  over and over whenever you have a spare 5 minutes to remember it.

 

This program focuses on Squats, they don’t call it the King of exercises for nothing, 3 sessions a week, includes deadlift, bench press, a couple of others.

 

Dont deviate from the program or train on off days, these days are needed for recovery.

 

If you’ve never squatted before then start with 20kg, at 3 months you’ll be squatting 100kg, that’s heavy. If you follow the program seriously then from 20kg to 80kg will be comfortable, 80kg to 100kg is tough, over 100kg needs complete discipline and diet.

 

Initially don’t worry about protein intake, just eat healthy every meal and try to include protein rich foods in every meal, eggs, steak, fish, nuts etc etc, plenty of veg and leafy greens.  There is a saying in the fitness world, Abs are made in the kitchen, it’s true. 

 

And when people start to criticise that Squats and Deadlifts damage your back? Don’t listen, if you hurt yourself it’s because  you are doing the exercise wrong, these types of exercise are not easy to master, but when you do, the gains are incredible.

 

 

 

 

Squats are good indeed, if only because they are very efficient at moving the blood around...

Yet, using a specific machine (with rails and hooks) for this exercice may be safer in the beginning...reduces the risk of a painful wrong move.

Also, starting with half squats should be easier, so that the OP will be able to walk after his first few training sessions!

Finally and since the OP has quite a lot of weight to lose, it would be better for him to forget about red meat and eggs, especially the yellow part with its high density cholesterol.

Dry fruits and nuts are very good indeed...

[Polanskiman]

15 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

...one evening at Pizza Hut and its one week of training through the window!

That's scary! 

[transam]

Sorry if I have missed it, but OP, what is your age...?

[Polanskiman]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Squats are good indeed, if only because they are very efficient at moving the blood around...

Yet, using a specific machine (with rails and hooks) for this exercice may be safer in the beginning...reduces the risk of a painful wrong move.

Also, starting with half squats should be easier, so that the OP will be able to walk after his first few training sessions!

Finally and since the OP has quite a lot of weight to lose, it would be better for him to forget about red meat and eggs, especially the yellow part with its high density cholesterol.

Dry fruits and nuts are very good indeed...

So you would recommend white meats like chicken, fish, turkey and if need be some protein shakes before (1 hour or so) and after exercising?

And strongly limit carbs?

 

Also what about cardio? Are the 5/10 min the PT is making me do at each session enough?

Edited November 7, 2017 by Polanskiman

[Polanskiman]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Sorry if I have missed it, but OP, what is your age...?

 

I'm 38