Some improvement, but Thailand’s English proficiency remains low: report

[Airbagwill]

4 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Years ago I helped schools in areas of Udon,    all at my expense.  I received a massive thanks from Udon education and were given 3 laminated certificates.

But at that time I was not aware that helping schools free, was outlawed by Immigration.

Update on that--education were very happy---Immigration says we can be deported for working ,even for free.

Do I get a feeling Immigration and education clash   ??why on earth should it be a problem when helping the Thai kids.

In many ways they love it as it means that teachers have no security in Thailand at all.

[geisha]

I have found that hotel  and restaurant staff are the best English speakers in Thailand .Having spoken to numerous Thai  students (and even university level) the lack of proficiency shocks me. Also , pharmacies ( Boots / private) manage very well, but not generally in hospitals.

[Airbagwill]

THis maybe more to do with proximity to UK, membership of EU and good educational systems. South European, Latin languages have a lot in common with English too...

A quick view of English - a world language with many dialects it is the flexibility and relatively informal grammar that make it so useful around the world.

 Although has it’s roots in ancient Proto -Germanic or even proto-Ino European (roots of most Euro and Asian Languages), over the last 1000 years it has become is  about 50% Latin-based (Even new German has adopted a lot of Lain)

But even for those whose languages are not even remotely connected, it is a remarkably easy language to get started in and uses an incredibly simple writing system.

It’s shaped by 6000 years of history. Has very relaxed organic form with no rules, only conventions

It is not without reason that it has become the popular language of trade throughout the planet.

Science and academia use English but in a  very Latin way  many of the day to day words and phrases can be traced to a Germanic (Scandinavian) root - well before the German of today.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

17 minutes ago, geisha said:

I have found that hotel  and restaurant staff are the best English speakers in Thailand .Having spoken to numerous Thai  students (and even university level) the lack of proficiency shocks me. Also , pharmacies ( Boots / private) manage very well, but not generally in hospitals.

Sounds like you are talking to those who deal with the tourist industry....

 

In business there is a larger and different need for English - meetings, presentations, writing and technical communication. - i.e. International English. - The standards required are much higher, but Thailand is as yet failing to get to grips with this.

One "standard" that is worshipped in Thailand is TOEIC - unfortunately the company running this has being connected to a huge scandal involving selling qualifications. This has resulted in students being deported from UK   who no longer recognize TOEIC as a valid qualification.

 

However in Thailand it remains a favourite.

 

I have certainly met over the last 20 years several high ranking executives whose qualifications aree no way representative of their actually EL capabilities.

te problem with this is that once they have gone down this road they are only interested in covering up their linguistic shortcomings rather than educating themselves. It even extends to their attitude to the education of fellow workers - as the last thing they want is subordinates who speak English better than they do.....te whole system therefore works against the improvement of English in areas such as commerce, science a academia.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Airbagwill

[coulson]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not odd at all. Many Singaporeans live far from the main commercial areas and have no reason to use English- use it or lose it.

English is one official language, but it isn't a law that people have to speak it amongst themselves.

 

Tourist areas-LOL. Even in Pattaya or Chiang Mai, English skills outside of hotel workers is dire.

Singapore is a city state. Many European villages don't bother with English and it's not a native language. Big difference.

 

About the Hotel workers, that was exactly my point. They learn or lose their job.

[BernieOnTour]

Well... considering the huge increase in Chinese tourists, growing Chinese economic influence (eg. Silk Road program),

it might far more prudent to learn Mandarin instead of the language of the already lost British empire and the already weakening US empire ... 

 

on the other hand: Thailand was the country with the highest increase + 2.57 ...

Edited November 11, 2017 by BernieOnTour

[Happyman58]

3 hours ago, darksidedog said:

For a country with such a superiority complex, that ranks pretty low. No real news flash that Thais can't speak English and given the abilities of most of their "English" teachers, I don't see it getting much better any time soon.

I said to the step daughter. How is the English classes going at school?  She answered me through her mother because she still cant speak English . Her mother can. I am a native speaker of English and taught her mother well Step daughter said Not to good I said why what is the problem? The teacher we have is from the Philippines and she cant speak English herself. Be like a person learning to become a chef and is being taught by an electrician.

 

I was surprised even got that score because 95% of the population cant speak English  So Thai education ministry get your head out of your arse and do something about  You are going backwards

 

 

[howbri]

I have taught in Shanghai and lived here in Thailand. Compared to the Chinese, the Thais have very little desire to learn. In China, most young college students seek to learn English. It's not uncommon for them to stop me on the street or in a restaurant and ask to be friends so they can learn English. The Chinese understand that improving their English is a road map to higher income.

[Happyman58]

13 minutes ago, BernieOnTour said:

Well... considering the huge increase in Chinese tourists, growing Chinese economic influence (eg. Silk Road program),

it might far more prudent to learn Mandarin instead of the language of the already lost British empire and the already weakening US empire ... 

 

on the other hand: Thailand was the country with the highest increase + 2.57 ...

Nice thought Bernie but considering 75% of the world population speak English Maybe better to learn it. If you listened to the tourist minister from Thailand doing her big junket trip To London saying Thailand expects 35 million tourists this year You can bet 30 million of them speak English Even the Russian Tourists can?

[TEFLKrabi]

For the English readers, think back to your school days. After 5-6 years of French, how fluent were you?

[Happyman58]

Just now, howbri said:

I have taught in Shanghai and lived here in Thailand. Compared to the Chinese, the Thais have very little desire to learn. In China, most young college students seek to learn English. It's not uncommon for them to stop me on the street or in a restaurant and ask to be friends so they can learn English. The Chinese understand that improving their English is a road map to higher income.

Shake hands Howbri You hit the nail right on the head The Chinese want to learn you are so right where the Thai students are thinking Omg i might have to put an effort in so no way  I just go join Mum and Dad laying in the hammock

[hugh2121]

Despite its lowly ranking, Thailand had made some improvements in its English proficiency:

 

2016: Thailand ranked 56 out of 72 (16 from last)

2017: Thailand ranked 53 out of 80 (17 from last)

[Airbagwill]

21 minutes ago, BernieOnTour said:

Well... considering the huge increase in Chinese tourists, growing Chinese economic influence (eg. Silk Road program),

it might far more prudent to learn Mandarin instead of the language of the already lost British empire and the already weakening US empire ... 

 

on the other hand: Thailand was the country with the highest increase + 2.57 ...

No - for the reasons explained above

[Muggi1968]

Anyway... Goooooooodddd for us since the Thais will  need our help for many decades more ;-)

 

[Happyman58]

3 minutes ago, TEFLKrabi said:

For the English readers, think back to your school days. After 5-6 years of French, how fluent were you?

I know but i was thinking French was not spoken as a global language. English is . The point is just imagine If a Thai person learns English and can speak Thai How valuable would they be to banks, airlines, tourist industry, government jobs The opportunities would be boundless

How happy are you when u go to hardware store for  eg   and you need help and the person who serves you can speak English? I know it makes me happy 

[PAIBKK]

2 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Several months ago I spoke to an English Teacher in CNX.  She was Filipina(never lived in an English Speaking Country) and said most of her students(elementary school) just repeat the English words she says.  As soon the students leave her class they pretty much forget everything.  

As soon the students leave her class it is <Ctrl><Alt><Del> total reset, clearing memory, restart for new class...

As soon the students leave school it is <Ctrl><Alt><Del> and repeated several times...

The only time Thai need their brains is when at school... 

[Itay]

2 hours ago, Sid Celery said:

Apparently, many Thais can't even speak Thai properly, so English will have to wait until that nice Mr Prayuth makes Thai the lingua franca and they won't have to learn English because the whole world will be speaking Thai. Very soon I'll be bound.

 

If the mountain won't come to Mohammad...

SO TRUE Sid...!

It is soooo amazing that even after 15 years here I cannot get when 2 people talk to each other it takes sooo long and physical gestures to pass the message... 

I speak a very good Thai and sometimes I ask my GF to do the talking and she get upset quite fast most of the times.

[Airbagwill]

1 minute ago, Happyman58 said:

I know but i was thinking French was not spoken as a global language. English is . The point is just imagine If a Thai person learns English and can speak Thai How valuable would they be to banks, airlines, tourist industry, government jobs The opportunities would be boundless

How happy are you when u go to hardware store for  eg   and you need help and the person who serves you can speak English? I know it makes me happy 

French was until the mid 19th Century the main international language - it was the official language of treaties etc etc...only after WW@ when USA economics business and science dominated and UK entered the EU did it wain...t French were none too happy about it either.

Before French Latin was the international Lingua Franca... too some extent it follows the powerful but now the technology ensures a long future for EL.

however you don't needNES to learn the language - that is just one system.

[Megasin1]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. There has to be a desire to do something before it can be successfully done. My ex wife runs a nursery school which teaches English and from my point of view the problem is that it stops at the door when the kids go home. Oh yes, they play the game of sending all the kids to additional classes but that is just superficial. For a child to actually learn something then the child needs encouragement by their parents too, parent participation, Government participation and an understanding that when digging a hole, the first action is to stop digging. English is the international business language and therefore if you want to progress you speak English. For those of you thinking that Chinese will become the business language of the future I suggest you look at the net difference they made to banning Bit Coin (zero). Chinese business people are learning English as this is the route to globalisation success. You should not dismay or worry about the Thais inability to grasp English, clean their beaches, rid themselves of corruption or have a fair justice system, it is their choice, and a knackered horse makes excellent glue for the use of the rest of the world.

[PAIBKK]

20 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

Despite its lowly ranking, Thailand had made some improvements in its English proficiency:

 

2016: Thailand ranked 56 out of 72 (16 from last)

2017: Thailand ranked 53 out of 80 (17 from last)

You must have been using a Thai calculator...  2017 it is 27 from last.

 

But I still wonder how much Thailand has paid to get better results...

 

[notmyself]

3 hours ago, coulson said:

Some improvements is an overstatement. Education is not the reason, if any, that proficiency is improving. It is due to the tourism industry people are forced to interact in English.

 

That would certainly be a very large part of it and if I may.....

 

Another member (perhaps more) pointed to the teachers themselves being a large part of the problem and this is something I would have to agree with because I have too often found that people who have had some formal education in English language always forget past, present and future. I met this waitress a week or so ago and as usual took the time to exchange pleasantries and was very surprised at her command of the language. I asked where she picked it up and turns out she was a nurse at a private hospital in Bangkok for a number of years and never spoke a word before she left Isan to go work there. I say exchange pleasantries which generally included if someone plays chess> She said she did which spun me out and I figured maybe she didn't understand just said yes... something not exactly unusual...  so a drew an imaginary picture of a chess board and she said yes. Doubting Thomas I am, I get a picture of a chess board with pieces and show her that and get a 'yes, yes, chess, I understand'

[Ossy]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Despite its lowly ranking, Thailand had made some improvements in its English proficiency:

Has it really? . . . should we all start jumping up and down? My 14yr-old step-daughter is one of the sharpest in her class, in what is reputed to be a 'good' school, offering 3 English lessons-a-week, yet she has not advanced beyond 'hello' and 'thank you'. Typical of Thai families, she still lives with her g/parents so I have little opportunity to add to what I consider an abysmal level of teaching. What goes on in those 3 lessons I'm left wondering . . . advanced F-B ology?

[Srikcir]

33 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

Despite its lowly ranking, Thailand had made some improvements in its English proficiency:

 

2016: Thailand ranked 56 out of 72 (16 from last)

2017: Thailand ranked 53 out of 80 (17 from last)

A change in sample size might give an erroneous ranking. For example if English low literacy nations (Latin America?) are added to the ranking population, then Thailand's rank artificially improves.

Here is another ranking published in 2016:

https://hbr.org/2016/11/research-companies-and-industries-lack-english-skills

 

[djayz]

And the standard here isn't going to improve any time in the foreseeable future. 

 

I recall doing some teacher training at a school in Korat a few years ago. The aim was that I would teach the Thai teachers some fun activities / games which they could use to make learning English fun for their students. 

 

All of the Thai teachers, bar one, couldn't say more than "Good morning. How are you? I'm fine thank you. And you?" How can they teach their young students when they themselves can't speak the language? It's a never ending cycle.

 

It'll never improve because there's no incentive to learn, no desire for improvement, nobody cares and they can get away with it.  

[simple1]

Some years back my stepson attended a Thai fee paying school in Pattaya, yet his Thai English teacher couldn't converse in English. Now back in Pattaya, my Thai niece attends a Thai fee paying school, again her Thai English language teacher cannot converse in English. An example of no progression whatsoever.

[Jonnapat]

A score of 49 would seem rather generous to me.

[JAG]

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Yeah, interesting; I wonder how many of those "native speakers" are speaking a mixture of English and pidgin. To be fair, only 20% of the pop. is English speaking, so I suppose the rest drag down the average a bit. Saudi (77/80) surprised me too, given my understanding that it's a prime destination for extremely well paid English teaching jobs, but no doubt a religious based education system isn't conducive to improving language skills, learning the Koran by rote and all that.

Well I met a couple of 'Native English Speaking Teachers" from Cameroon last year. I simply could not understand them! Ended up talking to them in French! When they were talking to each other band their colleagues in the school in which the agency had sent them to ( their in lies a tale) they spoke French!

[Lingba]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Several months ago I spoke to an English Teacher in CNX.  She was Filipina(never lived in an English Speaking Country) and said most of her students(elementary school) just repeat the English words she says.  As soon the students leave her class they pretty much forget everything.  

and the reason why they choose a Filipina to teach is because they can get away with paying her a Thai wage which is half the price of what an native speaking American, Canadian, Australian etc would demand

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Several months ago I spoke to an English Teacher in CNX.  She was Filipina(never lived in an English Speaking Country) and said most of her students(elementary school) just repeat the English words she says.  As soon the students leave her class they pretty much forget everything.  

this kind of anecdotal nonsense is totally unverifiable and totally unhelpful.

I'm sure they are good and bad students and teachers at schools but the survey is about adult usage of English and anecdotal evidence only reinforces pprejudices rather tan enquire about the real causes.

[Lingba]

2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

this kind of anecdotal nonsense is totally unverifiable and totally unhelpful.

I'm sure they are good and bad students and teachers at schools but the survey is about adult usage of English and anecdotal evidence only reinforces pprejudices rather tan enquire about the real causes.

oo