New Visa Agency at Promenada Mall

[evenstevens]

9 minutes ago, buddhalady said:

 

 

As regards a recent comment about using embassies or consulates when help is needed,  this may well be true for US expatriates, but it definitely isn't for those from the other side of the pond! 

can vouch for our Australian Embassy that if bons fide  assistance is needed, it will be provided immediately, no need for personal crusade to be conducted at all

[NancyL]

Let's remember that back when I was spending time at Immigration, observing and reporting, often it was because I was assisting a Lanna Care Net client or newly arrived retiree/CEC member and, as the then-president of CEC, the Consular Corp was asking me for input about what was really happening at Immigration Prom. because of the complaints they were hearing from their constituents.  Arrival at 2 pm,  queuing in the dark, next to a goat pen, no toilets, being given the run-around and different answers when asking simple questions, sitting all day outside the office in the heat, listening to queue numbers announced in bad English over a bad speaker system.  Remember what it was like when they first moved to Promenada?

 

I wrote emails, reports, gave presentations to audiences that included the Consular Corp, Minister of Tourism, Governor's office, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and even representatives from Immigration.  Was this a "personal crusade"?  No, these people considered me a representative of the expat community.  After all, I was president of CEC and had been voted TV POTY.   I was invited to speak at these meetings.  I don't think I was seen as a "crack-pot" on a "personal crusade".  

 

I'd like to think that I had a hand in the improvements that have come since then.  Now you wait indoors, in the aircon, with adequate seating space, thanks, in part to that side waiting area built by the mall.  There are lighted queue-number being served signs with the number announced by a professional recording.  The toilets are opened in the morning, the goats are gone, but admittedly the morning lighting could come on earlier.  They've moved the agents out of the morning queue; they're served by their own I/O upstairs, so it's only us "retail" customers who wait in the morning queue.

 

These changes have come on gradually and there is still much room for improvement.  The agent system is still a cause for concern (esp. for visa conversions for newcomers) as is the lack of an on-line appointment system for marriage and retirement extension.  

 

As for what happened about the move to Malaysia.  Part of what motivated that was my being told, in a rather frightening way, that I was to cease coming out to Imm. to help others and/or to observe and just to come to take care of my own business.  This was in December 2016.  We applied for the 10-year MM2H visa in August 2017 without any problems.  In fact, the Imm. off treated my husband quite nicely and there was none of the nit-picking or pressure to use an agent that he would have encountered here.  However, at about that same time we learned of a Thai-U.S. tax treaty that is of great benefit to us.  No such treaty exists with Malaysia.  Also, at about that same time, Mr. Bitey had a lump removed that turned out to be cancer.  And while the lump was "contained", he has to undergo monthly blood tests and eat a special diet.  It didn't seem to be a good idea to move him.  Plus, since I'm no longer president of CEC, I don't feel the need to represent expats.  I do take care of Lanna Care Net clients, but have steered many to using agents or trained their friends how to deal with Imm, even though I'm the one gathering the necessary documents from the hospital and in some cases giving them the money to pay the agent.  At least I know who the cheap ones are.  Anything to keep my face out of Imm.  

 

Friday, however, I had a real shock when I went to Imm. to get a re-entry permit for myself and decided to handle a 30-day tourist entry extension for a client myself, just to see what would happen.  Fortunately, it wasn't busy at Prom. and turns out the I/O who handles tourist extensions (not someone I normally interact with) had been involved in a recent community service project with me and was quite friendly.  And Officer Nicky, the I/O who handles retirement and medical extensions even came and sat next to me in the waiting area to chit-chat, saying how he hadn't seen me lately (well, duh, remember when your boss sent out the goons in December 2016?) and asked if I still help older expats in hospital.  I said yes and he said if they ever need a medical extension, I should just come and see him, Officer Nicky directly.  My, my.  Things have changed.  

[Mark1066]

52 minutes ago, buddhalady said:

Mark, I would strongly recommend older white men as well as older white women as well as those of varied human hues to use a visa agent, as I've done for five years. No hassle, and , I believe, essential if there's an ongoing health problem as was the case with my late husband.

Yes but if you look at Nancy's comments earlier in this thread, she likes to belittle older white men who use/d G4T...which isn't very compassionate. I think that's the reason you are seeing negative posts from me and others, not because of some strange change in attitude.

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Let's remember that back when I was spending time at Immigration, observing and reporting, often it was because I was assisting a Lanna Care Net client or newly arrived retiree/CEC member and, as the then-president of CEC, the Consular Corp was asking me for input about what was really happening at Immigration Prom. because of the complaints they were hearing from their constituents.  Arrival at 2 pm,  queuing in the dark, next to a goat pen, no toilets, being given the run-around and different answers when asking simple questions, sitting all day outside the office in the heat, listening to queue numbers announced in bad English over a bad speaker system.  Remember what it was like when they first moved to Promenada?

 

I wrote emails, reports, gave presentations to audiences that included the Consular Corp, Minister of Tourism, Governor's office, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and even representatives from Immigration.  Was this a "personal crusade"?  No, these people considered me a representative of the expat community.  After all, I was president of CEC and had been voted TV POTY.   I was invited to speak at these meetings.  I don't think I was seen as a "crack-pot" on a "personal crusade".  

 

I'd like to think that I had a hand in the improvements that have come since then.  Now you wait indoors, in the aircon, with adequate seating space, thanks, in part to that side waiting area built by the mall.  There are lighted queue-number being served signs with the number announced by a professional recording.  The toilets are opened in the morning, the goats are gone, but admittedly the morning lighting could come on earlier.  They've moved the agents out of the morning queue; they're served by their own I/O upstairs, so it's only us "retail" customers who wait in the morning queue.

 

These changes have come on gradually and there is still much room for improvement.  The agent system is still a cause for concern (esp. for visa conversions for newcomers) as is the lack of an on-line appointment system for marriage and retirement extension.  

 

As for what happened about the move to Malaysia.  Part of what motivated that was my being told, in a rather frightening way, that I was to cease coming out to Imm. to help others and/or to observe and just to come to take care of my own business.  This was in December 2016.  We applied for the 10-year MM2H visa in August 2017 without any problems.  In fact, the Imm. off treated my husband quite nicely and there was none of the nit-picking or pressure to use an agent that he would have encountered here.  However, at about that same time we learned of a Thai-U.S. tax treaty that is of great benefit to us.  No such treaty exists with Malaysia.  Also, at about that same time, Mr. Bitey had a lump removed that turned out to be cancer.  And while the lump was "contained", he has to undergo monthly blood tests and eat a special diet.  It didn't seem to be a good idea to move him.  Plus, since I'm no longer president of CEC, I don't feel the need to represent expats.  I do take care of Lanna Care Net clients, but have steered many to using agents or trained their friends how to deal with Imm, even though I'm the one gathering the necessary documents from the hospital and in some cases giving them the money to pay the agent.  At least I know who the cheap ones are.  Anything to keep my face out of Imm.  

 

Friday, however, I had a real shock when I went to Imm. to get a re-entry permit for myself and decided to handle a 30-day tourist entry extension for a client myself, just to see what would happen.  Fortunately, it wasn't busy at Prom. and turns out the I/O who handles tourist extensions (not someone I normally interact with) had been involved in a recent community service project with me and was quite friendly.  And Officer Nicky, the I/O who handles retirement and medical extensions even came and sat next to me in the waiting area to chit-chat, saying how he hadn't seen me lately (well, duh, remember when your boss sent out the goons in December 2016?) and asked if I still help older expats in hospital.  I said yes and he said if they ever need a medical extension, I should just come and see him, Officer Nicky directly.  My, my.  Things have changed.  

Western type protests and complaining doesn`t work in Thailand. The so-called improvements you mention would have happened anyway, but in this country it`s a mai pen rai attitude and takes time. Those who try to place pressure on them to get their fingers out only makes them drag their feet longer, it`s the saving face culture thing. Unless it begins hitting them in their pockets situations can drag on for years.

 

But I wouldn`t get too excited about better service at immigration just yet, we don`t know what they have in-store for us when the near airport office opens that I`m not very optimistic about. 

[cmsally]

While traditionally Thai bureaucratic culture has not been the scene of protest and complaint face to face, things are definitely changing. Look at the "new Facebook culture" and you will see no shortage of Thais willing to "get stuck in".

The intern at the Khon Kaen welfare centre for example.

[evenstevens]

20 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Western type protests and complaining doesn`t work in Thailand. The so-called improvements you mention would have happened anyway, but in this country it`s a mai pen rai attitude and takes time. Those who try to place pressure on them to get their fingers out only makes them drag their feet longer, it`s the saving face culture thing. Unless it begins hitting them in their pockets situations can drag on for years.

 

cybes take a bow. u have absoulately nailed it     refering to nancy l comments about the goons etc etc  the elderly gal should thank her lucky stars that section 44 was not served upon her    a nice lazy sunday arvo to all

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

First she began a crusade against the Promenada immigration department, then she declared war on the G4T agency while at the same time promoting to us the private agencies. I believe this done more harm then good. 

 

Speaking for myself, although I consider Chiang Mai expats have received a rough deal where immigration is concerned, I found the G4T agency fast track system very convenient and so too the new agency that has taken it`s place, whatever it calls it`s self now. 

 

It should be up to every individual which method to use without some self appointed defender claiming to act on our behalf and interfering. 

G4T is now called Best Friend and is on the right side of the road going into Big C in a brand new block of shops. Has a sign but blink and you'll miss it.

Far as I know same price as before.

They told me they will be staying there when Immigration goes back to old location. Don't need to go to office as can meet at Promenada, and someone can go to hotel to collect bank letter.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

the lack of an on-line appointment system for marriage and retirement extension.  

I'm not aware of the other stuff being said about you, so not getting involved with that. I'm only commenting on the defunct on line appointment system, which was a farce. I logged on after waiting all night for midnight in LOS, and the entire quota was filled within about 5 minutes or something like that.

Far better would be for them to either employ enough officers to handle a reasonable q every day, or simplify the system so the same number of officers can handle more people. Having to arrive at 4 or 5 am is an appalling indictment of the imm service. BTW, we might be able to wait inside now, but that's only after the q numbers are given out. Even the banks offer a machine to issue q tickets. I don't see why we have to stand around for hours just to keep our place in the q to get a q ticket. Is it beyond their resources to have someone stand by the machine to ensure someone does not take more than one ticket? 

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, cmsally said:

Thai bureaucratic culture has not been the scene of protest and complaint

Uh!  A Farcical statement!

 

How many Government Overthrows/Military takeovers/U-turns have happened in the last 70Years in Thailand because of protests or perceived protests? 

 

 

[cmsally]

24 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Uh!  A Farcical statement!

 

How many Government Overthrows/Military takeovers/U-turns have happened in the last 70Years in Thailand because of protests or perceived protests? 

 

 

I was talking about on a day to day basis "in the office"; otherwise of course it is all about protest and U-turns !

[CMsojourner]

Nancy being characterized merely as a “complainer” does not do justice to the many improvements she directly influenced at Promenada. I personally know that she very diplomatically worked with the business management of the mall to implement positive changes such as: availability of early morning public restrooms (before the mall opened), discontinuance of nearby livestock displays, and improved lighting conditions for those in the dark. She also advocated the availability of indoor seating so that elderly folks would not have to wait in the outdoor heat. Suggesting such improvements would have happened anyway is simple speculation, just as is implying that Immigration now is somehow taking its “revenge” on visa applicants while conjecturing Nancy as the cause. Wouldn’t it be better to stick with the facts, stop the blame, and return to the original discussion of this thread.

[Mark1066]

5 minutes ago, CMsojourner said:

Nancy being characterized merely as a “complainer” does not do justice to the many improvements she directly influenced at Promenada. I personally know that she very diplomatically worked with the business management of the mall to implement positive changes such as: availability of early morning public restrooms (before the mall opened), discontinuance of nearby livestock displays, and improved lighting conditions for those in the dark. She also advocated the availability of indoor seating so that elderly folks would not have to wait in the outdoor heat. Suggesting such improvements would have happened anyway is simple speculation, just as is implying that Immigration now is somehow taking its “revenge” on visa applicants while conjecturing Nancy as the cause. Wouldn’t it be better to stick with the facts, stop the blame, and return to the original discussion of this thread.

If you'd prefer to stick with the facts, let's leave the egos of some people to one side and accept that facilities such as indoor seating were probably on the cards anyway. Of course it was a bit of a shambles when they first relocated to their temporary home at Promenada and of course things have improved somewhat since then. To claim that these changes are due to one person's efforts is, as you put it, simple speculation, and almost certainly not true. It is the very nature of such arrangements that they improve over time.

 

It's also ridiculous for somebody to claim they had some sort of mandate to campaign for change because they were the president of the CEC. 99.9% of expats in Chiang Mai have no knowledge or interest in this organisation.

[CMsojourner]

Facts: 

1. Changes described were implemented by Promenada mall management almost immediately after Nancy met with them. These did not change before she did. There was at least one other who participated in one of these meetings. Nothing had happened in any of the described conditions before their discussion. It is a reasonable conclusion to say Nancy had a direct influence, just as it is to say she was not the sole cause. It was a cooperative arrangement.
2. I also never said that Nancy was the only protagonist for indoor seating being implemented. I stated she was an “advocate”. Eventually, Immigration worked with mall management to make this happen during a minor remodel.
3. I personally never have been a member of the CEC nor have I participated in any of its events. Not sure why you bothered to mention this in your reply.
4. Let me reiterate — it would be nice to get back to the discussion of the original topic and not make Nancy the focus.

[NancyL]

2 hours ago, CMsojourner said:

Nancy being characterized merely as a “complainer” does not do justice to the many improvements she directly influenced at Promenada. I personally know that she very diplomatically worked with the business management of the mall to implement positive changes such as: availability of early morning public restrooms (before the mall opened), discontinuance of nearby livestock displays, and improved lighting conditions for those in the dark. She also advocated the availability of indoor seating so that elderly folks would not have to wait in the outdoor heat. Suggesting such improvements would have happened anyway is simple speculation, just as is implying that Immigration now is somehow taking its “revenge” on visa applicants while conjecturing Nancy as the cause. Wouldn’t it be better to stick with the facts, stop the blame, and return to the original discussion of this thread.

 

2 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

If you'd prefer to stick with the facts, let's leave the egos of some people to one side and accept that facilities such as indoor seating were probably on the cards anyway. Of course it was a bit of a shambles when they first relocated to their temporary home at Promenada and of course things have improved somewhat since then. To claim that these changes are due to one person's efforts is, as you put it, simple speculation, and almost certainly not true. It is the very nature of such arrangements that they improve over time.

 

It's also ridiculous for somebody to claim they had some sort of mandate to campaign for change because they were the president of the CEC. 99.9% of expats in Chiang Mai have no knowledge or interest in this organisation.

Let's remember that after Imm. Prom. opened, many customers were appalled at the conditions and complained to their Consuls or Consulates.  Discontinuation of the online appointment queue (no matter how bad it was), waiting in the heat, arriving at 2 am with no lights or toilets, etc, etc.  The Consuls looked for someone to verify these claims since they themselves couldn't go out to inspect, not without notifying Imm. in advance and arriving during business hours.  They looked around to see what organization represented the resident expats and CEC came up.  Incidentally, so did the expat organizations of other nationalities and believe me, they've also submitted reports to their Consuls and have participated in the subsequent meetings with various Thai gov't agencies.  

 

One major response was for Immigration to establish a new layer of management at Promenda, bringing up several managers from Bangkok.  Thus, there is always someone on duty to sign-off on a visa extension, eliminating the need for passports to be run over to the old office or to track down the big boss.  Once you have your retirement extension interview with Officer Nicky,  a boss from the new layer of management reviews his work and signs off within 20 minutes or so.  

 

These new ladies also implemented recent changes like the queue-number being served signs.

 

I don't think this "face saving" move of establishing a new layer of management would have occurred without the pressure of the Consular Corp, which was backed up with the research, reports and input that I did.  The Japanese expat clubs also had some significant input, too, and like me, their "top visa expert" has received some abuse within the Japanese community for not taking a "long view" about the problem and keeping a lower profile. 

[Mark1066]

4 hours ago, CMsojourner said:

Facts: 

1. Changes described were implemented by Promenada mall management almost immediately after Nancy met with them. These did not change before she did. There was at least one other who participated in one of these meetings. Nothing had happened in any of the described conditions before their discussion. It is a reasonable conclusion to say Nancy had a direct influence, just as it is to say she was not the sole cause. It was a cooperative arrangement.
2. I also never said that Nancy was the only protagonist for indoor seating being implemented. I stated she was an “advocate”. Eventually, Immigration worked with mall management to make this happen during a minor remodel.
3. I personally never have been a member of the CEC nor have I participated in any of its events. Not sure why you bothered to mention this in your reply.
4. Let me reiterate — it would be nice to get back to the discussion of the original topic and not make Nancy the focus.

You're not sure why I 'bothered to mention' the CEC in my reply? Perhaps you should take the time to read Nancy's posts as well as mine as she said her presidency of said organisation was one of the reasons she felt she should act/interfere (you choose) with immigration in the first place. I'm all for not making Nancy the focus but unfortunately she did that herself when she needlessly insulted G4T's customers and claimed they were all old white men who wanted to be fawned over by young Thai ladies. If she didn't have an illogical vendetta against this particular agency and its successors, this conversation wouldn't even be happening. You will notice that an explanation of why she felt the need to single out G4T's customers for insulting was conspicuous by its absence in her reply above.

[Scott]

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