Pattaya booming!: European tourist arrivals "up 10%" - 'FIT' tourists up 30%

[wakeupplease]

5 hours ago, maxpower said:

I think many here would be surprised at how high occupancy figures are for Pattayas many luxury hotels and resorts that did not exist 20 years ago. Groups from places like China India and HK keep these places busy for most of the year. Some resorts have become very popular for Indian weddings with huge budgets.

Where did you read that, on Stevens page I expect

[maxpower]

9 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

Where did you read that, on Stevens page I expect

Nope, from a family member who works in the industry currently providing services to the Amari Watergate.

Next question.

[Keesters]

22 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

The post I reference gives figures and assessments from other sources as well. Sorry. Next.

Don't believe them much either.

I believe my own observations and talking with local businesses.

Sorry. Next.

 

[morrobay]

11 minutes ago, Keesters said:

Don't believe them much either.

I believe my own observations and talking with local businesses.

Sorry. Next.

 

Ok , a many faceted topic like this required facts. Now can you describe your observations and specifically what has been reported to you by what businesses ? My simple observations are thousands of Asians and Indians. The latter having celebrations on cliff top Dusit Thani.

[JSixpack]

8 hours ago, maxpower said:

I hope you told them that George Washington was also a Brit.

 

Not at the time, though his teeth did retain their Brit appearance until the end.

[Pilotman]

On 09/12/2017 at 5:15 AM, ezzra said:

It is... try to drive in Pattaya now days or better yet, find a parking spot,

Pattaya is always busy around this time of the year, but this is not the

Pattaya of old, it's all about money now, and stupid edict like don't smoke

on beaches, tones of drugs and illicit sex and every other vice under the

sun is available not to mention variety of Mafia Thai and foreignness

operating there, never mind all that as long as the tourists are still coming.....

Couple of things wrong with these statements in my view. Yes its busy, but I never have much real trouble driving in and around  Pattaya and I can always find a parking spot.  The underground car park near Mc D close to Soi 6/7 is virtually empty all day and is free. It was always  about money, as is every tourist resort in every country and its much better than Phuket.  No smoking on the beach, great decision, keep it up authorities. As for sex, drugs and the Mafia, its a damn sight better than it was 10 years ago, albiet not perfect. 

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, Keesters said:

Don't believe them much either.

I believe my own observations and talking with local businesses.

Sorry. Next.

 

 

 

Such innocent faith in one's own Eyeballs At Random Intervals

 

On 1/4/2017 at 3:11 PM, chrisandsu said:

. . . to be honest the only thing I truly believe is my own eyeballs (false accounting won't intice me to buy a business) . . . I just can't figure out for the life of me how they make money . . . .

1

 

is behind many a death thread here on the forum and leads many a member to conclude that the "deserted" malls and other businesses (Indian restos) never have customers: ergo, they're fronts for money laundering or are selling free air-con.

 

I addressed what's wrong with "my own observations" ealier:

 

 

On 12/10/2017 at 9:48 AM, JSixpack said:

Confirmation bias. Common myth on the forum for various reasons:

 

• Assessment only in posters' preferred venues
• Reliance on laughable shopping bag count at brief random intervals
• Ignorance of new development catering to new tourist market
• Failure to read corporate reports that attribute increased revenues to tourists
• Ignorant economic confusion of tourist spending with tourist revenue generation
• Overbuilding of beer bars, thinning out appearance of monger numbers

 

 

And then you naively want to believe "everything" your selective business owners say and ignore all the rest. We may assume they're farang business owners who are the most notorious poor mouths. Our doomsters talk to them every year and they're always going out of business. Why don't you talk to the local owners of the food courts in CentralFestival? For some odd reason they never get interviewed! Your observations are merely contradicted by others' observations, so--you don't have an argument.

 

Me, I'll rely on more objective observations made in a wide range of venues (many you obviously don't even know about), Mastercard International, CPN's (audited) quarterly report that cites growth in profits owing to tourist revenue, specifically from Chinese and Koreans, and common sense.

 

So I guess we're done here. Some do find an emotional need to cling to the ol' dying Pattaya myth. Enjoy.

 

[Peterw42]

Observations from someone who actually lives in Pattaya (Jomtien).

 

My condo block is full, slowly filling up since mid November,  according to the office 95% occupancy, car park is full, if your not at the pool at 7am forget about a deck chair, the gym isnt to crowded at 10pm. A large demographic of Europeans here for 1-2 months over winter, Russian families, independent Chinese tourists (female). Extra security staff and office girl to cover high season. Local 7/11 is 3 deep at the counter, local Thai eatery a wait for food.

 

Regular Friday night drinks at Rompo. Last Friday night, 10-20 of us (with GFs, wifes etc) who meet every friday. Our regular bar (seats maybe 60 people) was full, no seats left. The management scrabbling to find extra seats to accommodate us.

 

Eating out, regular (2-3 times a week) trip down to Jomtein night market, get some takeaway and eat at the beach or back home. No parking available at the market so parked 100 m away, the market was so full of families, couples etc, to the point were we gave up, back home for 7/11 ham and cheese toasties.

 

Grocery shopping, yesterday BigC pattaya klang, it must have been European pension day as it was spot the Thai person. A trolley traffic jam in the cheese aisle, all check outs open and 6-8 people waiting in line.

 

Drop off some laundry, yesterday I took 2 pillows to the local laundry, The girl said flat out NO,  then joked to come back in February. took me out the back and showed me a pile of laundry the size of a small car that she was trying to get through.

 

That is the reality of Pattaya/Jomtien, the next couple of months is a nightmare.I wish all the doom and gloom, pattaya is dieing, rubbish was actually true. 

 

Back in the "good old days", there was a sexpat bum on every bar stool in soi bucaoe and and a sexpat for every bargirl. Nowadays its families, couples, independent travellers going to floating markets, underwaterworld, tiger parks, waterparks, night markets, wineries, they dont go to hooker bars and they dont rent girlfriends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

I've returned to Pattaya for a short visit. Rolled into New Plaza two nights ago. Jammed. No tables or chairs at my two regular places. A bit shocked. Sat at Loaf for a coffee on Lengkee Sunday afternoon. Traffic was backed up and scooters were lined up to get onto Buakhao where traffic density was mad.

 

Yesterday, Central Festival and Big C Extra were extremely busy.

 

I must remember not to visit in December again. It will be interesting to see how long this "high season" lasts, though. Most of my visits this past year were in low season. Lots of empty streets and shops and bars and supermarkets.

[bkk6060]

I never really caught on to "low season".  Not complaining,  but I don't notice that much of a difference.

The only time I truly hate this place is Songkran.  Just me too old for 6 days of it,  so I leave town.  The rest of the time I am happy here.

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Observations from someone who actually lives in Pattaya (Jomtien).

 

My condo block is full, slowly filling up since mid November,  according to the office 95% occupancy, car park is full, if your not at the pool at 7am forget about a deck chair, the gym isnt to crowded at 10pm. A large demographic of Europeans here for 1-2 months over winter, Russian families, independent Chinese tourists (female). Extra security staff and office girl to cover high season. Local 7/11 is 3 deep at the counter, local Thai eatery a wait for food.

 

Regular Friday night drinks at Rompo. Last Friday night, 10-20 of us (with GFs, wifes etc) who meet every friday. Our regular bar (seats maybe 60 people) was full, no seats left. The management scrabbling to find extra seats to accommodate us.

 

Eating out, regular (2-3 times a week) trip down to Jomtein night market, get some takeaway and eat at the beach or back home. No parking available at the market so parked 100 m away, the market was so full of families, couples etc, to the point were we gave up, back home for 7/11 ham and cheese toasties.

 

Grocery shopping, yesterday BigC pattaya klang, it must have been European pension day as it was spot the Thai person. A trolley traffic jam in the cheese aisle, all check outs open and 6-8 people waiting in line.

 

Drop off some laundry, yesterday I took 2 pillows to the local laundry, The girl said flat out NO,  then joked to come back in February. took me out the back and showed me a pile of laundry the size of a small car that she was trying to get through.

 

That is the reality of Pattaya/Jomtien, the next couple of months is a nightmare.I wish all the doom and gloom, pattaya is dieing, rubbish was actually true. 

 

Back in the "good old days", there was a sexpat bum on every bar stool in soi bucaoe and and a sexpat for every bargirl. Nowadays its families, couples, independent travellers going to floating markets, underwaterworld, tiger parks, waterparks, night markets, wineries, they dont go to hooker bars and they dont rent girlfriends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well great that the place also becomes popular for folks who do not only need to get drunk and bar fine some 50 + years old bar girl.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Observations from someone who actually lives in Pattaya (Jomtien).

 

My condo block is full, slowly filling up since mid November,  according to the office 95% occupancy, car park is full, if your not at the pool at 7am forget about a deck chair, the gym isnt to crowded at 10pm. A large demographic of Europeans here for 1-2 months over winter, Russian families, independent Chinese tourists (female). Extra security staff and office girl to cover high season. Local 7/11 is 3 deep at the counter, local Thai eatery a wait for food.

 

Regular Friday night drinks at Rompo. Last Friday night, 10-20 of us (with GFs, wifes etc) who meet every friday. Our regular bar (seats maybe 60 people) was full, no seats left. The management scrabbling to find extra seats to accommodate us.

 

Eating out, regular (2-3 times a week) trip down to Jomtein night market, get some takeaway and eat at the beach or back home. No parking available at the market so parked 100 m away, the market was so full of families, couples etc, to the point were we gave up, back home for 7/11 ham and cheese toasties.

 

Grocery shopping, yesterday BigC pattaya klang, it must have been European pension day as it was spot the Thai person. A trolley traffic jam in the cheese aisle, all check outs open and 6-8 people waiting in line.

 

Drop off some laundry, yesterday I took 2 pillows to the local laundry, The girl said flat out NO,  then joked to come back in February. took me out the back and showed me a pile of laundry the size of a small car that she was trying to get through.

 

That is the reality of Pattaya/Jomtien, the next couple of months is a nightmare.I wish all the doom and gloom, pattaya is dieing, rubbish was actually true. 

 

Back in the "good old days", there was a sexpat bum on every bar stool in soi bucaoe and and a sexpat for every bargirl. Nowadays its families, couples, independent travellers going to floating markets, underwaterworld, tiger parks, waterparks, night markets, wineries, they dont go to hooker bars and they dont rent girlfriends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spot. On.

[newnative]

29 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I never really caught on to "low season".  Not complaining,  but I don't notice that much of a difference.

The only time I truly hate this place is Songkran.  Just me too old for 6 days of it,  so I leave town.  The rest of the time I am happy here.

   If I remember, you are in central Pattaya.  It's been my observation, also living there, that Pattaya itself has not really had a low season for several years now.  It's busy all the time.  I think Jomtien and other areas not yet as impacted by the new tourists still see a busier time in the winter months.

[bkk6060]

56 minutes ago, newnative said:

   If I remember, you are in central Pattaya.  It's been my observation, also living there, that Pattaya itself has not really had a low season for several years now.  It's busy all the time.  I think Jomtien and other areas not yet as impacted by the new tourists still see a busier time in the winter months.

Yes in central.

Guess I need to get out more during low season. :)

[Pilotman]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I never really caught on to "low season".  Not complaining,  but I don't notice that much of a difference.

The only time I truly hate this place is Songkran.  Just me too old for 6 days of it,  so I leave town.  The rest of the time I am happy here.

hear hear ; Songkran, lock the gates ,get in provisions and stay out of the way! 

[balo]

Yes arrivals are up , from Russians and Chinese. But they will not spend much money.

[morrobay]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

   If I remember, you are in central Pattaya.  It's been my observation, also living there, that Pattaya itself has not really had a low season for several years now.  It's busy all the time.  I think Jomtien and other areas not yet as impacted by the new tourists still see a busier time in the winter months.

Absolutely , Im in Jomtien this afternoon and there are thousands of Europeons. For those that miss Pattaya low season : Jomtien still has one. What a difference three months made.  

[newnative]

24 minutes ago, balo said:

Yes arrivals are up , from Russians and Chinese. But they will not spend much money.

     You might want to add: 'in the bars, pubs, and go-gos' to your last sentence.  I'm seeing plenty of them in the same places I frequent--which also isn't at any of those hangouts.  And,  Chinese or Russian short-term renters of condos are paying the same rates as other tourists; ditto for hotels, restaurants, sightseeing, etc.

[wakeupplease]

On 12/11/2017 at 5:13 PM, maxpower said:

Nope, from a family member who works in the industry currently providing services to the Amari Watergate.

Next question.

OK Then How much is a standard room at The Amari? where your pal works?

[Jai Dee]

One trollish flame comment has been removed from this thread.

[Keesters]

On 12/12/2017 at 8:55 AM, JSixpack said:

 

Such innocent faith in one's own Eyeballs At Random Intervals

 

 

is behind many a death thread here on the forum and leads many a member to conclude that the "deserted" malls and other businesses (Indian restos) never have customers: ergo, they're fronts for money laundering or are selling free air-con.

 

I addressed what's wrong with "my own observations" ealier:

 

 

 

And then you naively want to believe "everything" your selective business owners say and ignore all the rest. We may assume they're farang business owners who are the most notorious poor mouths. Our doomsters talk to them every year and they're always going out of business. Why don't you talk to the local owners of the food courts in CentralFestival? For some odd reason they never get interviewed! Your observations are merely contradicted by others' observations, so--you don't have an argument.

 

Me, I'll rely on more objective observations made in a wide range of venues (many you obviously don't even know about), Mastercard International, CPN's (audited) quarterly report that cites growth in profits owing to tourist revenue, specifically from Chinese and Koreans, and common sense.

 

So I guess we're done here. Some do find an emotional need to cling to the ol' dying Pattaya myth. Enjoy.

 

 

Heh I never said it was dying. I just said I don't believe the figures. And you have no idea who I talk to or where. So stop with all your inaccurate guesses.  Stick to whatever truth you like but don't JUDGE me.

 

[JSixpack]

30 minutes ago, Keesters said:

 

Heh I never said it was dying. I just said I don't believe the figures. And you have no idea who I talk to or where. So stop with all your inaccurate guesses.  Stick to whatever truth you like but don't JUDGE me.

 

 

I didn't directly say you said that; you'll need to apply some ability to abstract the implications of no tourists, or no tourist growth, for a town whose economy depends on tourism.

 

And I pointed out what's wrong with your believing NO figures but just your own "observations" and selected business owners. You can read a sufficient number of posts in this thread—by some of our most proven credible posters—with current reports of observations that totally contradict yours. And that proves my point.

 

I also invited you to view a vid from Pattaya 1994 during the heyday of the Golden Egg Layers and compare that place with what Pattaya is now. What accounts for all that growth?

 

As you didn't specify your selected business owners, that gives us leave to guess. But clearly they aren't the owners of successful businesses benefiting from the new breed of tourist—of which there are countless; I gave you the extreme example of the food vendors in the CentralFestival food court. You don't say why you don't go talk to them. It's not like they're hard to find.

 

Nor are you being judged but rather your "argument." It remains irrational.

 

[JSixpack]

On 12/12/2017 at 9:25 AM, Peterw42 said:

My condo block is full, slowly filling up since mid November,  according to the office 95% occupancy, car park is full, if your not at the pool at 7am forget about a deck chair, the gym isnt to crowded at 10pm. A large demographic of Europeans here for 1-2 months over winter, Russian families, independent Chinese tourists (female). Extra security staff and office girl to cover high season. Local 7/11 is 3 deep at the counter, local Thai eatery a wait for food.

 

I thought about this post yesterday when I could barely find a parking place in my building for the first time ever. Mostly Europeans (including old ladies), very few Chinese or Russians.

[Keesters]

10 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

I didn't say you said that; you'll need to apply some ability to abstract. And I pointed out what's wrong with your believing NO figures but just your own "observations" and selected business owners. You can read a sufficient number of posts in this thread—by some of our most proven credible posters—with current reports of observations that totally contradict yours. And that proves my point.

 

I also invited you to view a vid from Pattaya 1994 during the heyday of the Golden Egg Layers and compare that place with what Pattaya is now. What accounts for all that growth?

 

As you didn't specify your selected business owners, that gives us leave to guess. But clearly they aren't the owners of successful businesses benefiting from the new breed of tourist—of which there are countless; I gave you the extreme example of the food vendors in the CentralFestival food court. You don't say why you don't go talk to them. It's not like they're hard to find.

 

Nor are you being judged but rather your "argument." It remains irrational.

 

When you reply directly to me by quoting a post I've made I have to assume everything you write is directed at me even though you now sneakily try and pretend it is not.

 

Quote

May we may assume they're farang business owners

No you may not. What gives you the right to assess with whom I speak.

 

Quote

Why don't you talk to the local owners of the food courts in CentralFestival?

How do you know I don't. You're just making things up.

 

Quote

Your observations are merely contradicted by others' observations, so--you don't have an argument.

Their observations are merely contradicted by my observations, so--they don't have an argument.

 

Quote

Me, I'll rely on more objective observations made in a wide range of venues

So your objective observations are better than mine. What an arrogant statement.

 

Quote

many you obviously don't even know about

again arrogance and rudeness. You do not know me, don't judge me, or even try to guess what I do or do not know about Pattaya.

 

Quote

Some do find an emotional need to cling to the ol' dying Pattaya myth.

In replying to me 'SOME' has to include me. You are so wrong.

 

[chrisandsu]

3 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

I thought about this post yesterday when I could barely find a parking place in my building for the first time ever. Mostly Europeans (including old ladies), very few Chinese or Russians.

? sorry that’s a myth .you used your eyes to make this judgement . I look forward to rehashing this for the next year? 

[JSixpack]

1 minute ago, chrisandsu said:

? sorry that’s a myth .you used your eyes to make this judgement . I look forward to rehashing this for the next year? 

 

No, I also used my motorbike, i. e., incontrovertible physical evidence, and experience over the years. Yes, we'll definitely rehash it next year as we always do.

[JSixpack]

5 minutes ago, Keesters said:

How do you know I don't. You're just making things up.

 

 

'Cause if you did, they'd tell you that business is great. Or if you don't want to talk to them, then do tell us who are all those people crowding the food court and where did they buy the food they're eating, which looks, well, exactly like food court food.

 

Quote

Their observations are merely contradicted by my observations, so--they don't have an argument.

 

So your objective observations are better than mine. What an arrogant statement.

 

 

You've missed the point. If we're going simply by observations, then why wouldn't a greater number of contradictory observations invalidate that argument? Or, how would they be even possible, if what you believe about absolute tourist numbers is objectively true?

 

Quote

You do not know me, don't judge me, or even try to guess what I do or do not know about Pattaya.

 

 

I don't have to know you as I'm analyzing your "argument" about tourist numbers in Pattaya.

 

And I've invited you to tell us specifically what you know but you won't answer except, basically, that you know what you know 'cause you know it. So there we are.

 

[Jerry780]

As pointed out already the THB is too strong. Once they get that sorted out the tourism will be back to where it should be. Thailand is just not cheap anymore.

[Peterw42]

16 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

No, I also used my motorbike, i. e., incontrovertible physical evidence, and experience over the years. Yes, we'll definitely rehash it next year as we always do.

Yes, we can look forward to the "what happend to high season" thread soon.

Based on hard data like, the sexpat bar in soi sexpat is empty, the 400 baht a night hotel in soi sexpat is empty, a guy in a bar told me etc.

It does get frustrating when tourist numbers and high season have a direct impact on your life (crowds, busy etc), only to have "empty barstool experts" tell us otherwise.

[Scott]

An off-topic, troll post has been reported and removed.