House build under 5000/sqm?

[cheeryble]

Hi

 

As we;re working up to building a house in grandma's garden the wife has been keeping an eye on Naibaan website and posting some to me.

They have some quite good stuff.

 

Today i got a link to this page:

https://www.ntbdays.com/tidtrendy/7048

 

It claims a house build at about 4200/sqm.

I can read a fair bit of the Thai on the butcher's bill but not all.

 

I note that it has a single skin of regular blocks, and there certainly aren't a proliferation of electrical points.

But it's a decent looking house with plenty of window space and the roof is lined underneath and insulated.

 

I notice they are quoting payments for a chaang so it's not a self build.

If correct, this is really cheap, and there may be something to learn from it.

Anyone care to pick the figures apart?

Can this be?

Edited December 14, 2017 by cheeryble

[kamalabob2]

Any house built with grey blocks is a blessing to the PEA.  Added bonus is the tin roof. Third bonus to the PEA and the curtain makers are the large local made aluminum windows and doors. What could possibly make it hotter inside most days and nights, yet bitterly cold on the rare cold days in Thailand. Be sure to budget 3000 baht for the electric room heater sold at Global House. The 60 by 60 Chinese slip and fall floor tiles help to keep costs down. It would be worthwhile for the OP to go in person to see and feel what it is like INSIDE a house built of these materials with that much glass.  Would be excellent for the OP to visit a 2nd time during rain to understand the sound and to see the value of spending money on rain gutters. Traditional Thai style with high pitched roofs and wide verandas and wide eaves to protect from the sun and rain are worth a consideration when building on any budget in Thailand. The price quoted considering the materials used (and not used) seems fair.  No need to run NYY cable under the ground for main electric service from the street to the circuit breaker box, when you can have electric wires in the sky.  I just caution on the on going PEA bill for a house built with this type of materials.  Fiber cement Elephant Chang roof tiles of a light color would change some aspects of the home listed including sound in the rain and need for A/C on so many hours. 

[cheeryble]

6 hours ago, kamalabob2 said:

Any house built with grey blocks is a blessing to the PEA.  Added bonus is the tin roof. Third bonus to the PEA and the curtain makers are the large local made aluminum windows and doors. What could possibly make it hotter inside most days and nights, yet bitterly cold on the rare cold days in Thailand. Be sure to budget 3000 baht for the electric room heater sold at Global House. The 60 by 60 Chinese slip and fall floor tiles help to keep costs down. It would be worthwhile for the OP to go in person to see and feel what it is like INSIDE a house built of these materials with that much glass.  Would be excellent for the OP to visit a 2nd time during rain to understand the sound and to see the value of spending money on rain gutters. Traditional Thai style with high pitched roofs and wide verandas and wide eaves to protect from the sun and rain are worth a consideration when building on any budget in Thailand. The price quoted considering the materials used (and not used) seems fair.  No need to run NYY cable under the ground for main electric service from the street to the circuit breaker box, when you can have electric wires in the sky.  I just caution on the on going PEA bill for a house built with this type of materials.  Fiber cement Elephant Chang roof tiles of a light color would change some aspects of the home listed including sound in the rain and need for A/C on so many hours. 

Thanks for the comments.

Did your mum tell you sarcasm is the lowest form of wit? 

 

I'll answer disjointed like Wittgenstein.

 

1. As I thought I'd intimated by mentioning shortfalls like single skin grey blocks, and a paucity of electrical points, (and I notice they haven't shown off the bathroom and kitchen fittings)...........I consider the house inadequate.

However the price is so good that making it adequate or better  would still leave one with a bargain.

How much to make it a double skin of grey blocks (pretty good insulator) or a single or double skin of thermalise blocks?

Let's err for caution and say there are 90sqm of block wall. How much more does thermalite cost than regular blockwork?

100 baht /sqm or so?

That's a whopping 9000 on the price in any case less than 200t/sqm on the price.

How much does an over the top electrical installation cost with safe t cut etc?

 

2. It may not be a colorbond roof quality if not I'd upgrade but colour bond is not dear.

I have experience with the colour bond with the foil and foam glued underneath and it is remarkably efficacious for both heat and sound. a ceiling, maybe an insulated ceiling, attenuates the sound and the heat more. I already used it on the chalet and will use it on my house. Mother lives in the chalet and said noise is no problem at all. I have previously felt the roofing with and without the thin foam/foil in the sun,....one is almost untouchable the other only mildly warm to touch.

 

3. As to aircon on so many hours i have lived without aircon since i've been in Thailand and only ever use it in hotels.

i shall fit it but a fan will take precedence in all but the hottest period. It will never be set under 25degC

 

4. I may have gutters in selected parts of the roof but walkways, water features can be arranged to handle rain from the roof.

On a single pitch roof like mine and the house featured above of course it only needs gutter on the one side.

 

The point is all of these upgrades would still leave one with a house considerably cheaper than the price i know houses can be built at, and i'd like to know where the savings are coming from and how much to upgrade to the right standard.

[cheeryble]

6 hours ago, kamalabob2 said:

Any house built with grey blocks is a blessing to the PEA.  Added bonus is the tin roof. Third bonus to the PEA and the curtain makers are the large local made aluminum windows and doors. What could possibly make it hotter inside most days and nights, yet bitterly cold on the rare cold days in Thailand. Be sure to budget 3000 baht for the electric room heater sold at Global House. The 60 by 60 Chinese slip and fall floor tiles help to keep costs down. It would be worthwhile for the OP to go in person to see and feel what it is like INSIDE a house built of these materials with that much glass.  Would be excellent for the OP to visit a 2nd time during rain to understand the sound and to see the value of spending money on rain gutters. Traditional Thai style with high pitched roofs and wide verandas and wide eaves to protect from the sun and rain are worth a consideration when building on any budget in Thailand. The price quoted considering the materials used (and not used) seems fair.  No need to run NYY cable under the ground for main electric service from the street to the circuit breaker box, when you can have electric wires in the sky.  I just caution on the on going PEA bill for a house built with this type of materials.  Fiber cement Elephant Chang roof tiles of a light color would change some aspects of the home listed including sound in the rain and need for A/C on so many hours. 

Thanks for the comments.

Did your mum tell you sarcasm is the lowest form of wit? 

 

I'll answer disjointed like Wittgenstein.

 

1. As I thought I'd intimated by mentioning shortfalls like single skin grey blocks, and a paucity of electrical points, (and I notice they haven't shown off the bathroom and kitchen fittings)...........I consider the house inadequate.

However the price is so good that making it adequate or better  would still leave one with a bargain.

How much to make it a double skin of grey blocks (pretty good insulator) or a single or double skin of thermalise blocks?

Let's err for caution and say there are 90sqm of block wall. How much more does thermalite cost than regular blockwork?

100 baht /sqm or so?

That's a whopping 9000 on the price in any case less than 200t/sqm on the price.

How much does an over the top electrical installation cost with safe t cut etc?

 

2. It may not be a colorbond roof quality if not I'd upgrade but colour bond is not dear.

I have experience with the colour bond with the foil and foam glued underneath and it is remarkably efficacious for both heat and sound. a ceiling, maybe an insulated ceiling, attenuates the sound and the heat more. I already used it on the chalet and will use it on my house. Mother lives in the chalet and said noise is no problem at all. I have previously felt the roofing with and without the thin foam/foil in the sun,....one is almost untouchable the other only mildly warm to touch.

 

3. As to aircon on so many hours i have lived without aircon since i've been in Thailand and only ever use it in hotels.

i shall fit it but a fan will take precedence in all but the hottest period. It will never be set under 25degC

 

4. I may have gutters in selected parts of the roof but walkways, water features can be arranged to handle rain from the roof.

On a single pitch roof like mine and the house featured above of course it only needs gutter on the one side, though of course 90% of Thai houses don't bother and they don't seem to fall down.

 

The point is all of these upgrades would still leave one with a house considerably cheaper than the price i know houses can be built at, and i'd like to know where the savings are coming from and how much to upgrade to the right standard.

[kamalabob2]

I believe the Op should go in person to see the house, or any house design he finds on the internet. Any local builder should have references you can go see. No shortage of house plans you can buy on the internet that include a B.O.Q.  However I have read the translation of the B.O.Q, for internet house plans and the substandard size of electric cables for outlet sockets, lack of RCBO breakers, too few electric breakers are but a few items to take into consideration when estimating the price to build a home in Thailand. You can see houses built from internet web sites on their facebook page. Going in person and speaking to people who had the house built and live in the house is worth the time and travel expense in my opinion. Window awnings are an item the OP should consider with that sort of modern house design.  Grey blocks might be a second choice if the OP prices 7cm or 7.5cm by 20 by 60 autoclaved blocks. There is a reason so many housing estates are built with AAC blocks in Thailand. Thada homes in Buriram are built to a cost with aac blocks and fiber cement roof tiles.  Experienced professional house developers calculate the total cost to build a home including labor, not because they want to spend a single satang extra to build a house estate in Thailand. The OP is a better man than me if he can live without the expense of a/c in Thailand. 

[kamalabob2]

Here are some photos of Thada houses under construction in Buriram. The wall blocks are Diamond 7.5 cm by 20 cm by 60 cm autoclaved blocks. On facebook you can see that Diamond sent a training team to show local Isaan local labor how to best build these houses. The fiber cement roof tiles are 210 long by 50 wide. 

[sirineou]

Not a bad design!

I am more familiar with Feet and inches so I am confused with the 500 sqm I think you have one too many zeros.

Having reached a certain age I like to think that I have acquired , if not a certain measure of wisdom, at the very least some experience. And my experience has taught me not to build more house that I need  (i know many people that have spend a lot of money on a home , and now don't have any for themselves, we call them house poor) . So I am glad you are exploring for frugal solutions.but you also need to be careful not to be penny wise and pound foolish.

 

 I don't see how anyone could build that house for 230,000 baht which is about $7,000. As others have said you would be building something that in the long run will cost more than if you had built it right , and you will still have a substandard build.  But if you needed a temporary housing solution, until you were ready to make the investment for something more permanent, then maybe.

 Here are some free Thai government house plans consolidated Croccy.(he is one of our moderators in this forum and very knowledgable, and helpful in these matters. 

http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/  

I will follow this thread with interest 

Good Luck

  

 

 

[sirineou]

^^^^^^

Download and look at house #7 , if you still want a flat slanted roof , you can modify the plans.  Croccy knows more about htis plans so if you are interested , perhaps you can PM him 

I had made a 3d model of this plan for a friend if I can find it , you can have it.

Edited December 15, 2017 by sirineou

[cheeryble]

2 hours ago, kamalabob2 said:

 

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Thanks for the pics Kamalabob

 

To you and Sirineou I will NOT be copying the house i featured.

I was just surprised at the price and interested if i could learn anything about what locals paying for builds.

My tentative house design is actually on Sirineou's thread, it won't be built to palace standard but it will have some elements of quality, and certainly be "proper". I may as well put the rough design here. Mum's chalet is already built and lived in and we now have a driveway, partial wall, and water thanks with filter....oh and electricity to the site.

One thing you may comment on.

As i said in my previous post I was thinking of a cavity AAC wall 2x75mm blocks.

I've been wondering if our local builder is au fait with this type of wall.

i mentioned this to a friend who built on Ko Panyang using AAC. He said his builder, connected to the wife, simply would not build a cavity wall, and a my friend decided to say OK. 

However he got a very good job and a good price with no real probs with the builder.

It made me think about my cavity walls.

I do not need 24 aircon like some and given that the roof (which will be double insulated anyway) which is a much bigger heat gatherer than the walls, and the house will be in mostly shade with ivy or the like up the walls, i'm thinking i don't really need the cavity. The main room and bedroom are also largely shielded on the south side by bathroom/walkin closet store room etc.

Thing is the tallest wall is 4m. (that's 23 ft Sirineou!).

I'm a bit concerned that 3 inch blocks are a bit narrow for such a high wall.

But i guess there will need to be one or two reinforced concrete beams horizontal built into that wall eh, so i guess OK?

 

[sirineou]

I am also building a palace. Wife was out shopping for my throne 

Cavity wall is one way to go, there others. just as good . the 7.5 AAC is simply a filler, the support is accomplished (as you also said) by the columns and would be braces by horizontal beams. One under the window and one over, and since you will have high windows would also have adequate bracing.  on wall where you don't have windows , horizontal beams can be positioned at strategic locations.There is only one problem IMO with the 7.5 cm AAC (3 inch) is that it is too thin IMO to run mechanicals

.

Imagine cutting  one or two inch in a three inch wall, not much wall left.

Other ways to go could be a  modified cavity wall . You could use any material you want for your outside skin, and then use metal studs in the inside with sheetrock.

the picture is from one of the buildings we are building in Manhattan right now. Million dollar apartments are done this way, and my more humble home in Florida where it is just as hot as Thailand was build with cement block (breeze block)  and same system.  Walls are ice cold to the touch. 

But again you are right if you don't have the workers to do the work the rest is academic. Personally I don't see why a worker in your areas could do a single wall  but won't do a cavity , where a cavity wall is simply a single wall done twice.

A 15 cm AAC block should be the same cost as a 7.5 cm cavity wall.

 

PS: everything I know about building in Thailand is from conversations like this, Nothing wrong with exploring different options, and bouncing ideas off from each other. 

 

[steven100]

as an office yes ... as a house no .....

this is your Thai house ...

Edited December 15, 2017 by steven100

[irlguy1]

Nice shed, when will u be moving out of it into a real house?
Sarcasm and jokes aside, you get what u pay for and that example is fine for your mother in law.

If you don't like your mother in law [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

Nice shed, when will u be moving out of it into a real house?
Sarcasm and jokes aside, you get what u pay for and that example is fine for your mother in law.

If you don't like your mother in law


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He is not planning to build that house, his wife came across it and show it to him and he started this thread to see if something like that was possible at that price.

[irlguy1]

He is not planning to build that house, his wife came across it and show it to him and he started this thread to see if something like that was possible at that price.

I know that, I was making a joke but my humour was making a point.

So without the humour to answer his question ....
Not possible for something comfortable but possible for a shed [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cheeryble]

11 hours ago, sirineou said:

I am also building a palace. Wife was out shopping for my throne 

Cavity wall is one way to go, there others. just as good . the 7.5 AAC is simply a filler, the support is accomplished (as you also said) by the columns and would be braces by horizontal beams. One under the window and one over, and since you will have high windows would also have adequate bracing.  on wall where you don't have windows , horizontal beams can be positioned at strategic locations.There is only one problem IMO with the 7.5 cm AAC (3 inch) is that it is too thin IMO to run mechanicals

.

Imagine cutting  one or two inch in a three inch wall, not much wall left.

Other ways to go could be a  modified cavity wall . You could use any material you want for your outside skin, and then use metal studs in the inside with sheetrock.

the picture is from one of the buildings we are building in Manhattan right now. Million dollar apartments are done this way, and my more humble home in Florida where it is just as hot as Thailand was build with cement block (breeze block)  and same system.  Walls are ice cold to the touch. 

But again you are right if you don't have the workers to do the work the rest is academic. Personally I don't see why a worker in your areas could do a single wall  but won't do a cavity , where a cavity wall is simply a single wall done twice.

A 15 cm AAC block should be the same cost as a 7.5 cm cavity wall.

 

PS: everything I know about building in Thailand is from conversations like this, Nothing wrong with exploring different options, and bouncing ideas off from each other. 

 

Hi Sirineou

 

thanks for the interest 

I was thinking exactly the same as you that 75mm is enough.....and can be boarded just as you show......but with no boards could be a problem, for fittings. 

If a single skin even 100mm would be much better, but prices i have read are

Qcon

75mm 17.5 baht

100mm 30.5 baht

 

..........nrealy double for an inch thicker!

 

Anyone reading.......is this price an anomaly? Are 100mm available cheaper?

 

Secondly Sirineou,

I note you speak of breeze blocks with sheetrock lining as being fine thermally in Florida. 

(I've heard said a cavity of 2 x 70mm breeze blocks here in Thailand is also very good thermally ....so guess your sheet rocked single wall similar insulator)

Presume the sheetrock has insulation behind or just the having the gap OK?

Are the breeze blocks thicker (I'm guessing?)

 

ps 4m high wall in my plan is of course 13ft not 23 ft.........shaking hands!

pps may you have many happy hours on the throne reading zap comix.

Edited December 16, 2017 by cheeryble

[kamalabob2]

The Op can certainly buy name brand top quality AAC blocks, including local delivery to his home building site in Thailand for less baht if he shops around.  10cm thick AAC blocks will be identical cost in labor, identical in rendering material, and 25% more adhesive used. 25% more thermal and sound deadening properties.  I have a home with 7.5cm thick interior walls and have a 24,000 btu Mitsubishi fan mounted on an interior wall with all pipes and cables hidden in the wall. I have another Daikin 18,000 btu Inverter unit mounted on a 7.5cm interior AAC block wall.  I did use fiberglass mesh over the conduit prior to rendering the walls. The breeze blocks sold at 95% of the suppliers in Thailand are a distant cousin of breeze blocks sold in the USA.  A very bad relative. A good use I saw today for breeze blocks was for a plumber to fix a water filter system in Issan. 

[sirineou]

47 minutes ago, kamalabob2 said:

The Op can certainly buy name brand top quality AAC blocks, including local delivery to his home building site in Thailand for less baht if he shops around.  10cm thick AAC blocks will be identical cost in labor, identical in rendering material, and 25% more adhesive used. 25% more thermal and sound deadening properties.  I have a home with 7.5cm thick interior walls and have a 24,000 btu Mitsubishi fan mounted on an interior wall with all pipes and cables hidden in the wall. I have another Daikin 18,000 btu Inverter unit mounted on a 7.5cm interior AAC block wall.  I did use fiberglass mesh over the conduit prior to rendering the walls. The breeze blocks sold at 95% of the suppliers in Thailand are a distant cousin of breeze blocks sold in the USA.  A very bad relative. A good use I saw today for breeze blocks was for a plumber to fix a water filter system in Issan. 

agree with everything you said, especially the breeze block comment.

But my sister in law build a house with breeze block over 10 years ago and it is still fine. Mitigate the heat transfer with a metal stud  insulation and drywall and you should have a viable cool system. 

But by the time you do all that you are up to the cost of AAC wall so why bother ? also the drywall (sheetrock) is mold resistant not mold proof , so you have this potential problem also.

When I first came to Thailand over 10 years ago I also explored all these options ,and it is good to have them, for instance  someone who already has single skin breese-block or brick and wants to mitigate the heat problem,  But I soon learned, "when in Rome do as the Romans do" 

[sirineou]

21 hours ago, cheeryble said:

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Thanks for the pics Kamalabob

 

To you and Sirineou I will NOT be copying the house i featured.

I was just surprised at the price and interested if i could learn anything about what locals paying for builds.

My tentative house design is actually on Sirineou's thread, it won't be built to palace standard but it will have some elements of quality, and certainly be "proper". I may as well put the rough design here. Mum's chalet is already built and lived in and we now have a driveway, partial wall, and water thanks with filter....oh and electricity to the site.

One thing you may comment on.

As i said in my previous post I was thinking of a cavity AAC wall 2x75mm blocks.

I've been wondering if our local builder is au fait with this type of wall.

i mentioned this to a friend who built on Ko Panyang using AAC. He said his builder, connected to the wife, simply would not build a cavity wall, and a my friend decided to say OK. 

However he got a very good job and a good price with no real probs with the builder.

It made me think about my cavity walls.

I do not need 24 aircon like some and given that the roof (which will be double insulated anyway) which is a much bigger heat gatherer than the walls, and the house will be in mostly shade with ivy or the like up the walls, i'm thinking i don't really need the cavity. The main room and bedroom are also largely shielded on the south side by bathroom/walkin closet store room etc.

Thing is the tallest wall is 4m. (that's 23 ft Sirineou!).

I'm a bit concerned that 3 inch blocks are a bit narrow for such a high wall.

But i guess there will need to be one or two reinforced concrete beams horizontal built into that wall eh, so i guess OK?

 

Nice design and could be build in sections

  But i think you have a dead fish on the island in your pond LOL

Have you ever played with  Google sketch up? it is free , fun, plenty of tutorials on YouTube . You can make a 3d model to scale, play around by walking through, place people and furniture to scale in the rooms , determine if  your design is adequate. and make adjustments on the fly .

[cheeryble]

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

Nice design and could be build in sections

  But i think you have a dead fish on the island in your pond LOL

Have you ever played with  Google sketch up? it is free , fun, plenty of tutorials on YouTube . You can make a 3d model to scale, play around by walking through, place people and furniture to scale in the rooms , determine if  your design is adequate. and make adjustments on the fly .

THE fish that just jumped out of the pond? You've got good eyes..... He was the first thing I put in the pond before the thought came to me "islands!"

 

I got quite competent with Sketchup before, could pick it up again, good fun, but kinda enjoyed paper this time. What I have done is buy good cardboard and a cutter pad. IF repeat IF I find time I'll make a a simple model, at least of the new house, and cut the windows out. You may remember I'm interested in the light in the main room with clerestory windows to south (and in the bedroom too, which will get morning light). Well with a model set the same angle as the house on the site I can check exactly how the light falls and if the bamboos to south need thinning, and maybe if I need continuous clerestory windows the 7metre length of the room or say four smaller individual ones.

 

Still be very interested if 100mm AAC blocks can be sourced for a do-able price in which case given the shading I'll make a simple single skin wall.

[cheeryble]

Actually started the model.

Bit fiddly but fun.

TOP TIP the ruler tended to slide off the cut line pushed by the blade.

i put some thin lines of UHU on the underside and let it dry.

The ruler is now like an octopus on the card.

 

ps: price of 100mm AAC blocks?

Edited December 17, 2017 by cheeryble

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, cheeryble said:

THE fish that just jumped out of the pond? You've got good eyes..... He was the first thing I put in the pond before the thought came to me "islands!"

 

I got quite competent with Sketchup before, could pick it up again, good fun, but kinda enjoyed paper this time. What I have done is buy good cardboard and a cutter pad. IF repeat IF I find time I'll make a a simple model, at least of the new house, and cut the windows out. You may remember I'm interested in the light in the main room with clerestory windows to south (and in the bedroom too, which will get morning light). Well with a model set the same angle as the house on the site I can check exactly how the light falls and if the bamboos to south need thinning, and maybe if I need continuous clerestory windows the 7metre length of the room or say four smaller individual ones.

 

Still be very interested if 100mm AAC blocks can be sourced for a do-able price in which case given the shading I'll make a simple single skin wall.

Art and crafts can be fun also, Have you consider Play Doh?

In Sketch up there is a Sun light option you can explore the different options by making a simple box of the room in question,, cutting a window in it , placing it at the desired  height and orientation , geo locating it and playing around with the time of year and day.

https://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000148

  Plenty more tutorials on YouTube if needed. 

[cheeryble]

18 hours ago, sirineou said:

Sketchup

 

Good thought if I remember right one can walk around inside so i guess check the light fall

that ways I guess it can't be done with no roof?

Damn where did I put the mouse three years ago?

[sirineou]

Make the roof as a different layer so you can toggle it on and off 

.also you can use the "section" tool to remove  a wall that is in the way or the roof  .