Phuket beach banishment drama - hotel within their rights, say district officials

[eisfeld]

5 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Trouble is that these Chanote Posts are often moved or even removed in the quiet of the night. My neighbour in Kata did that to gain a meter frontage  x 30m back on our undeveloped piece of land.

I wonder what (and how accurate) data the land office will record when they do the survey for the Chanote and plants those posts. I guess the easiest way to prove a moved post is by measuring the distance from the other posts and reference points like a road that's not so easy to move. What happened in your case?

 

I can imagine that it's fairly easy to move posts that are put into sand.

 

I've seen screenshots of a software that the land office uses which basically overlays google maps satelite pictures with their survey data. But of course that's not accurate enough for distances like 1m.

[LivinginKata]

31 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

<snip>

 What happened in your case?

 

 

I was on the road when the electric company came to install the electric poles on the virgin road. I took charge and directed the poles to be placed at each Chanote post boundary. Thus no house would have a pole in direct line of sight.  When I challenged my neighbour after he started making a garden on our land he casually said there was no post, I challenged that, then he found the post in his garage, claimed a workman must have removed. We built a wall on the the real boundary. My point is that unscrupulous people will take every advantage and hope no-one challenges.    

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Trouble is that these Chanote Posts are often moved or even removed in the quiet of the night. My neighbour in Kata did that to gain a meter frontage  x 30m back on our undeveloped piece of land.

I can well believe that. A survey to check the GPS coordinates would be required to verify / dispute a post position. Easily arranged for a fee I believe.

[eisfeld]

16 minutes ago, Tofer said:

I can well believe that. A survey to check the GPS coordinates would be required to verify / dispute a post position. Easily arranged for a fee I believe.

Yes the land office will come and verify property boundaries for a fee (I heard 5-6k from a builder) but GPS data itself isn't accurate enough. Not sure what devices they use but GPS itself only gets you down to a few meter accuracy. Special devices can get better accuracy but I'm not sure if any in use by the Thai land office can do few centimeter accurate geolocation. Would be interested in what kind of data they have for chanote title deeds.

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Yes the land office will come and verify property boundaries for a fee (I heard 5-6k from a builder) but GPS data itself isn't accurate enough. Not sure what devices they use but GPS itself only gets you down to a few meter accuracy. Special devices can get better accuracy but I'm not sure if any in use by the Thai land office can do few centimeter accurate geolocation. Would be interested in what kind of data they have for chanote title deeds.

They also record the physical dimemsions as the Aor Bor Tor's plans we have had these shown, presumably from a land office download. So providing you still have some posts you know to be in the right positions you should be able to plot the position of missing or disputed ones.

 

I would also be interested to know how accurate their survey methods are.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Tofer
Punctuation

[Sydebolle]

The day is not far, believe me, when the situation at the center of a controversy will be explained to the district officials and arrogant corrupt hotel owners and operators. We visitors, customers, tourists, alien - whatever they want to call us - have the choice. Legally no beach nor river rim can be sold as they are all crown property - apparently. 

I had a similar experience years ago on Koh Samui; after having had a (good) Thai lunch with soft drinks for THB 1'400 (for two) we wanted to spend half an hour on one of the empty beach chairs between the coffee shop terrace of the hotel and the sea before leaving back to the main land.
We were told in no unclear, rude, terms (you make go away!) that this is only for hotel guests who stay overnight; got the duty manager over who confirmed, that THB 1'400 for a local Thai lunch was not good enough to qualify for one of those empty chairs (was June 2015). 

We complained to the hotel chain's head office in Paris which sent us a voucher for four nights free stay - yet never went back again. 

Keep your beaches, prohibit sun shade and deck chairs, put smokers into (ridiculous) smoking cabins along the beach, forbid an alcoholic late afternoon drink while sunset while keeping jet skys and other scammers plying their trade. There are more beaches outside Thailand than along Thailand's shores. 

[NamKangMan]

On 1/10/2018 at 7:56 PM, LivinginKata said:

 

I was on the road when the electric company came to install the electric poles on the virgin road. I took charge and directed the poles to be placed at each Chanote post boundary. Thus no house would have a pole in direct line of sight.  When I challenged my neighbour after he started making a garden on our land he casually said there was no post, I challenged that, then he found the post in his garage, claimed a workman must have removed. We built a wall on the the real boundary. My point is that unscrupulous people will take every advantage and hope no-one challenges.    

 

"I challenged that, then he found the post in his garage" - so, did you end up owning the land his garage was on?  I mean, that's where the boundary marker was.  Right?  

[LivinginKata]

3 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"I challenged that, then he found the post in his garage" - so, did you end up owning the land his garage was on?  I mean, that's where the boundary marker was.  Right?  

 Troll

[NamKangMan]

48 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 Troll

 

Not trolling. 

 

Just pointing out how easy it is for these boundary markers to be moved, as you said yourself.

 

Of course, you then owning the land his garage sat on was a joke.  

[the guest]

All beaches is public land for the people given by the monarchy.

 

The term “private beach” is one of the most powerful wordings in terms of tempting a prospective guest to stay in a resort, but resorts should be well aware that there is no such thing from a legal perspective. Generally speaking, land use in Thailand is divided into two categories. The first is land for private use, whereby a landowner has the right to use the land and prevent it from being encroached on by any intruder. This right is prescribed in Section 1336 of Thai Civil and Commercial Code. The second category is land for public use. As the name suggests, it is exclusively reserved for common use of the public. The beach is considered public domain. Consequently, no resort staff are entitled to bodily force or behave in any manner with the aim of intimidating any beach-goer to stop using the beach. It is a criminal offense. However, accessing the beach is another question entirely. Although the only convenient way to access the beach is to pass through the resort. To be frank, the resort is not under any legal obligations to open the access way to public use. This is a legal loophole. There is no statute or judgment precedent that deals directly with this crucial issue. Our suggestion is to raise this issue and discuss it with the local competent officer, such as the Phuket Provincial Administration Organization, as they have the general power to administrate the use of public places. 

Quote taken from Mongkol Ruengwutchanapuech, a Master of Laws (Australia) and Barrister at Law (Thailand) at the International Law Office (ILO) – Phuket

[HHTel]

That doesn't define where private land ends and the beach begins.  Just because there is sand underfoot does not make it a beach.

The definition of a beach:

 

Quote

a pebbly or sandy shore, especially by the ocean between high- and low-water marks.

 

[NamKangMan]

6 hours ago, HHTel said:

That doesn't define where private land ends and the beach begins.  Just because there is sand underfoot does not make it a beach.

The definition of a beach:

 

 

 

"Just because there is sand underfoot does not make it a beach." - correct.

 

What makes it a beach, or not a beach, is determined by the amount of corrupt payment to have the area declared one way, or the other.

 

Sand, high water mark, low water mark - all irrelevant.

 

What is relevant is the amount of baht paid for the classification one desires. 

[HHTel]

Oh dear.  The law in the States and Europe mimic what has been said here.  The beach ends at the high water mark and the land beyond that is not public land.  This is certainly the case in the UK and other European countries.

Yet posters here will insist that that law may relate to everywhere else in the world but not in Thailand.  Because in Thailand everything has to be part of a corrupt administration and nothing to do with the law.

 

I don't see anyone criticising other countries that follow the same rule as being corrupt.

 

To a lot of posters on here it's akin to banging one's head against the wall.  Whatever the rule of law is, it never applies to Thailand!!!!

 

[Rhys]

WH privileged