Police checkpoint blamed for accident as Malaysian "big bike" tourist dies in South

[wealthychef]

6 hours ago, keith101 said:

Looks like a straight 2 lane road so i don't see how it could be badly positioned causing an accident , is it possible he just decided to take his bike through the traffic causing the accident himself ?

I don't know but it seems more likely that people on the scene know more about it than  you do after looking at one photo of the aftermath.  

[lucjoker]

the cones were badly positioned .......i dont see any cone on the road ?

So they were still in the back of the police -truck??? Yes .now i understand "badly positioned"

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Sorry my friend but that is not correct.

 

A sudden swerve of the car in front takes away reaction time which is a part of stopping a vehicle.

 

The law says that if you drive into something it is your fault, not the car in front of you who was blocking your view of that something until they decided to swerve around it at the last moment, ultimately it is your responsibility to drive at a speed and distance that you can stop regardless of what the car in front decides to do.

[watcharacters]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The law says that if you drive into something it is your fault, not the car in front of you who was blocking your view of that something until they decided to swerve around it at the last moment, ultimately it is your responsibility to drive at a speed and distance that you can stop regardless of what the car in front decides to do.

 

 

Please reference that law with a link saying what you claim, Sir.

 

 

 

 

Following a vehicle requires  consideration of reaction time as well as required braking distance.

 

I question your claim and await your confirmation.

 

And certainly you have not experienced Thai Highways in a private vehicle.     Here it would be impossible to do as you suggest.

 

I maintain a good distance always and have had one accident in 60 years of driving.

 

Can you make a similar claim?

 

Tickets?   Yes 4 of them during that time.

 

You?

Edited January 17, 2018 by watcharacters

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Please reference that law with a link saying what you claim, Sir.

 

Section 40

The driver shall keep a safe distance from another vehicle in front of him.

 

Did you honestly think that you could just drive right up someones rear and if they needed to change lanes suddenly and you hit what they were avoiding then for some reason it was their fault not yours? 

 

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Section 40

The driver shall keep a safe distance from another vehicle in front of him.

 

Did you honestly think that you could just drive right up someones rear and if they needed to change lanes suddenly and you hit what they were avoiding then for some reason it was their fault not yours? 

 

 

 

 

Are you nuts?   Section 40 where?  You call that a link.?

 

 

Forget it.

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

6 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I am surprised that not more accidents happen at police checkpoints. They are an obstacle and there is no warning ahead. Sometimes you have to slow down because there suddenly  is an unexpected congestion

So we need to erect big signs in advance, ones that read, CAUTION - POLICE CHECKPOINT AHEAD, PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

 

Useful!

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Are you nuts?   Section 40 where?  You call that a link.?

 

 

Forget it.

 

 

 

Like an infant requiring spoon feeding.

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

[watcharacters]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

Like an infant requiring spoon feeding.

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

 

 

You impress me.   Did you even bother to read Thai Law section 40?

 

It talks about a safe distance, Genius.    

 

 

Please try to define what a safe distance is?

 

Safe distance is reaction time plus  minimum braking distance of your vehicle.

 

Please don't add your opinion to the Thai law.

 

You embarrass yourself.

 

[Mattd]

As an ex. motorcycle rider with quite a lot of experience, then no matter the conditions you should always have an escape plan, unfortunately the Malaysian rider lost his life in this accident, there is little doubt in my mind that this was avoidable, by paying proper attention, being fully aware and riding with due care with a proper distance between the next vehicle, whilst giving yourself a line of sight as far down the road as is possible.

One of the things that you see here on a daily basis is the lack of foresight, most drivers / riders barely look past their bonnet / front wheel and their reaction time is badly affected because of this, one of the most important things they teach in advance driving or riding courses is to plan ahead and have an out.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Mattd

[Mattd]

6 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

Safe distance is reaction time plus  minimum braking distance of your vehicle.

Sorry, but I'd hate to be in or on a vehicle with you driving sir, if you truly believe what you wrote, it certainly is not a safe distance if you leave only the reaction time and the vehicles minimum braking distance.

[Seismic]

3 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

You impress me.   Did you even bother to read Thai Law section 40?

 

It talks about a safe distance, Genius.    

 

 

Please try to define what a safe distance is?

 

Safe distance is reaction time plus  minimum braking distance of your vehicle.

 

Please don't add your opinion to the Thai law.

 

You embarrass yourself.

 

No, actually safe distance is Thinking time + reaction time + braking distance. You asked him to show you the relevant law and he did, now you are upset and want him to define the wording of the law??. It quite clearly states to keep a safe distance. If you collide with the vehicle in front of you then obviously you have not complied with the letter of the law as stated in Thai road traffic act section 40. It seems pretty obvious who is getting embarrassed here.

[worgeordie]

Especially when they set them up just around corners or 

on bends,I thought they were suppose to be banned a

while ago,must have been a big hit on cash flow,so did

a U-Turn.(pun intended).

regards Worgeordie

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, Seismic said:

No, actually safe distance is Thinking time + reaction time + braking distance. You asked him to show you the relevant law and he did, now you are upset and want him to define the wording of the law??. It quite clearly states to keep a safe distance. If you collide with the vehicle in front of you then obviously you have not complied with the letter of the law as stated in Thai road traffic act section 40. It seems pretty obvious who is getting embarrassed here.

 

 

 

Get outta here Pal.   Reaction time involves thinking.   Please don't be silly.

 

Are you this guy's sidekick?

 

Did you carefully read the quoted Section 40 of the Thai law?

 

 

 

You have failed to follow the thread.

[anon467367354]

34 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Are you nuts?   Section 40 where?  You call that a link.?

 

 

Forget it.

 

 

 

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

[Kawapete]

Police are well-known for making check points and redirecting traffic without proper warning. A survey also showed that the traffic police was very poorly educated in the laws of traffic. I was backended by a car in Bangkok beginning of December last year on this account and totally five cars had accidents on that one occasion because police wanted to clear the road for a VIP on a highway in rush hour by jumping out on the road when traffic was moving fast. At least in Bkk there are many complaints about the police and the new head of Police have even in Bangkok post announced that he will stop what I believe he called  "non authorized" police check points in the city.... Quite a statement 

[Kieran00001]

22 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

You impress me.   Did you even bother to read Thai Law section 40?

 

It talks about a safe distance, Genius.    

 

 

Please try to define what a safe distance is?

 

Safe distance is reaction time plus  minimum braking distance of your vehicle.

 

Please don't add your opinion to the Thai law.

 

You embarrass yourself.

 

 

Good grief.  Safe distances are taught and must be remembered in testing, we are actually expected to know what is a safe distance to be behind another vehicle and it should be enough that you can stop whatever the car in front does.  

 

This is the same the world over, there are always some who try to blame the car in front when they run into them, but they never win the case, the car that is hit from behind wins automatically based on the fact that you must keep a safe distance, go figure.

[transam]

READ THE ROAD AHEAD....If you cannot read it then drive carefully until you can READ THE ROAD AHEAD...

[chrissables]

2 hours ago, NextStationBangkok said:

Big bikes are exiting  to ride. But most of them chase other cars and riding very close to them watching from sides, and miss the speed of the car in the front.

 

Big bikes mostly out of control when they applied breaks.

 

You take risks, until you die. Speed kills!

Idiot

[Mattd]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

READ THE ROAD AHEAD....If you cannot read it then drive carefully until you can READ THE ROAD AHEAD...

100% correct.

[catman20]

7 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I am surprised that not more accidents happen at police checkpoints. They are an obstacle and there is no warning ahead. Sometimes you have to slow down because there suddenly  is an unexpected congestion

you took the words right out of my mouth.

[thailand49]

Driving is getting the Big Picture here if you get it one would have slow down instead of running into the truck?

[phantomfiddler]

Looking on the bright side, he is now being smothered by 57 virgins, a good trade-in !

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, transam said:

READ THE ROAD AHEAD....If you cannot read it then drive carefully until you can READ THE ROAD AHEAD...

 

 

Outstanding Trans,

 

You and the genius above you fail to grasp what I've posted but I'll clue you in.

 

I once followed a smaller truck at a very safe distance on an excellent surface.     It was a two  lane express road and the weather was pristine.   I was travelling the speed limit of 70 MPH.   At the very very  last possible second this A.sh.ole  I was following swerved into the right lane.   I was  then immediately  faced with a porta potty on its side on the road  in front of me.        My reaction time was  totally eliminated by the near homicidal actions of the driver in front of me..     I had plenty of distance for reaction and braking but to take one of those away does not apply to the equation.

 

I fortunately drive with awareness so i moved into the right lane as well and was happy I was not closely followed by another car.    Even today I wonder why the driver ahead of me did what he did.    To change that scenario would mean I'd have to drive a kilometer behind most drivers on a highway.   Reasonable?

 

 

Two things for all you geniuses.  I suggest googling  stopping distances and make a claim you allow for them in Thailand.   If you did you'd be moving backwards.

 

Secondly,  please tell me the last time you tested your cars braking system from a panic stop at 100 Km an hour?    Never done it?   I thought so.

 

 

Good luck to all of you.

 

 

 

 

 

[watcharacters]

5 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Looking on the bright side, he is now being smothered by 57 virgins, a good trade-in !

 

 

 

Now that's surely a good smothering,  Yes?

[Hupaponics]

43 minutes ago, Mattd said:

As an ex. motorcycle rider with quite a lot of experience, then no matter the conditions you should always have an escape plan, unfortunately the Malaysian rider lost his life in this accident, there is little doubt in my mind that this was avoidable, by paying proper attention, being fully aware and riding with due care with a proper distance between the next vehicle, whilst giving yourself a line of sight as far down the road as is possible.

One of the things that you see here on a daily basis is the lack of foresight, most drivers / riders barely look past their bonnet / front wheel and their reaction time is badly affected because of this, one of the most important things they teach in advance driving or riding courses is to plan ahead and have an out.

Amen brother!

Well put. No one can object that

[Longstaff]

Goodness me! A lot of people up on pedestals on this one! 

 

Apportioning blame / responsibility is a risky business in itself, however there have been a number of similar cases in Thailand over the years. Here's my thinking:

 

1. Accidents of any sort simply should not happen at police checkpoints. They regularly occur in Thailand. The police MUST carry some responsibility for this. If there was an accident of this sort in many countries the police would come under very serious scrutiny.
2. It is a FACT that police in Thailand SOMETIMES literally leap out unexpectedly in front of traffic; its happened to me numerous times
3. Driving standards in Thailand are generally appalling, both technically and in terms of driver attitude and behaviour.
4. Maintaining a safe distance in Thailand inevitably means that another driver fills the gap, so you are constantly having to back off the gas, and consequently there are many occasions when your safe distance temporarily vanishes.
5. People pull out and change lanes without indication; or with indication but no care for other vehicles. Buses and trucks in particular often just indicate and go, causing multiple vehicle to take evasive action. 
6. A sudden change of direction of another vehicle as you are about to overtake it, negates any effort to maintain a safe distance.
7. Not a single traffic cone to be seen in the photo.
8. It's a dual carriageway, so traffic is likely to be moving at speed, so plenty of warning is required, and a very gradual squeezing of traffic into a single lane, ready for inspection. 
9. As a rural dual carriageway (which it appears to be), it's difficult to do a u-turn to evade the checkpoint, and easy to police with another car a kilometer back at the ready.
10. Bad bikers, like bad drivers, tend to stand out. Good ones are barely noticed.

I'm a big bike and little bike rider; have been for 40 years, in many countries. Bikes are much more vulnerable than cars. Riding in SE Asia is dangerous and requires a very prudent approach because drivers, the public, and road conditions are VERY unpredictable.

[watcharacters]

50 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Sorry, but I'd hate to be in or on a vehicle with you driving sir, if you truly believe what you wrote, it certainly is not a safe distance if you leave only the reaction time and the vehicles minimum braking distance.

 

 

This is a UK info site:

 

http://www.brake.org.uk/facts-resources/15-facts/1255-speed

 

Does it mention "thinking distance"?

 

Stopping distances

Stopping distances include the distance travelled while the driver notices a hazard and applies the brakes (thinking distance), and while the vehicle comes to a full stop from its initial speed (braking distance). The government's official estimates of stopping distances for cars are shown below. [7]

Source: Department for Transport, 2007

The distances above are based on a reaction time of 0.67 seconds, which assumes the driver is alert, concentrating and not impaired. Driving when tired, distracted or impaired significantly increases reaction times, so the thinking distances above should be regarded as minimums.

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by watcharacters

[watcharacters]

4 minutes ago, Longstaff said:

Goodness me! A lot of people up on pedestals on this one! 

 

Apportioning blame / responsibility is a risky business in itself, however there have been a number of similar cases in Thailand over the years. Here's my thinking:

 

1. Accidents of any sort simply should not happen at police checkpoints. They regularly occur in Thailand. The police MUST carry some responsibility for this. If there was an accident of this sort in many countries the police would come under very serious scrutiny.
2. It is a FACT that police in Thailand SOMETIMES literally leap out unexpectedly in front of traffic; its happened to me numerous times
3. Driving standards in Thailand are generally appalling, both technically and in terms of driver attitude and behaviour.
4. Maintaining a safe distance in Thailand inevitably means that another driver fills the gap, so you are constantly having to back off the gas, and consequently there are many occasions when your safe distance temporarily vanishes.
5. People pull out and change lanes without indication; or with indication but no care for other vehicles. Buses and trucks in particular often just indicate and go, causing multiple vehicle to take evasive action. 
6. A sudden change of direction of another vehicle as you are about to overtake it, negates any effort to maintain a safe distance.
7. Not a single traffic cone to be seen in the photo.
8. It's a dual carriageway, so traffic is likely to be moving at speed, so plenty of warning is required, and a very gradual squeezing of traffic into a single lane, ready for inspection. 
9. As a rural dual carriageway (which it appears to be), it's difficult to do a u-turn to evade the checkpoint, and easy to police with another car a kilometer back at the ready.
10. Bad bikers, like bad drivers, tend to stand out. Good ones are barely noticed.

I'm a big bike and little bike rider; have been for 40 years, in many countries. Bikes are much more vulnerable than cars. Riding in SE Asia is dangerous and requires a very prudent approach because drivers, the public, and road conditions are VERY unpredictable.

 

 

 

I believe police in Thailand have zero personal responsibility.    They should but they don't.

 

 

 

[Hupaponics]

3 minutes ago, Longstaff said:

...

I'm a big bike and little bike rider; have been for 40 years, in many countries. 

Therefore you should know that it's the drivers responsibility to keep a safe distance to the vehicle in front.

If you don't, up to you as they say...