Court orders BMTA to pay Bestrin Group and affiliates 1,159 million baht in compensation for illegal cancellation of bus contract

[webfact]

Court orders BMTA to pay Bestrin Group and affiliates 1,159 million baht in compensation for illegal cancellation of bus contract

By Thai PBS

 

 

The Central Administrative Court today (Tuesday)ordered Bangkok Mass Transit Authority, the city’s bus operator, to pay compensation for damage worth 1,159 million baht to four suppliers of 489-unit NGV bus fleet for illegal cancellation of the procurement contract.

 

The four bus suppliers are Bestrin Group, R & A Commercial Vehicles SDN BHD, Sun Long (Shanghai) Automotive Company and Pei-fang Guangzhou New Energy Technology.

 

The court said that the Bestrin Group and its three affiliated firms entered into a contract to supply BMTA with a fleet of 489 NGV buses on September 30, 2016 with a condition that all the buses were to be delivered within 90 days of the date of the signing of the contract.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/court-orders-bmta-pay-bestrin-group-affiliates-1159-million-baht-compensation-illegal-cancellation-bus-contract/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-04-11

[YetAnother]

48 minutes ago, webfact said:

to pay compensation for damage worth 1,159 million baht to four suppliers of 489-unit NGV bus fleet for illegal cancellation of the procurement contract.

the court is saying: 'you are incompetent' and We are the ones that have to pay for it

[lamyai3]

54 minutes ago, webfact said:

1,159 million baht

In other words, more than a billion

[ezzra]

Yeah, a chance of a snowball in hell they will ever see the money, largely

because the BMTA doesn't have that kind of money to give, and there will

be appeals on top of appeals and feet dragging to years to come...

[Darcula]

Great, they can use this compensation to clear that unpaid Bt 844 million fine reportedly due to customs dept.

 

 

 

[4evermaat]

In other words, more than a billion

 

Thai language goes up to 1 million then starts over... e.g.

1 million

10 million

100 million

1,000 million (1 billion)

10,000 million

100,000 million

1 million million (1 trillion)

etc.

 

Numerically it's all the same.

 

Sent from my LDN-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[lamyai3]

16 minutes ago, 4evermaat said:

 

Thai language goes up to 1 million then starts over... e.g.

1 million

10 million

100 million

1,000 million (1 billion)

10,000 million

100,000 million

1 million million (1 trillion)

etc.

 

Numerically it's all the same.

 

Sent from my LDN-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Within the structure of the language this maybe true, but announcements here regarding larger sums are typically converted into billions or trillions as appropriate. Here's just one recent example (there are many given the ratio of the baht to western currencies):

 

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/thailand-expected-earn-20-billion-baht-5-day-songkran-festival/

[robblok]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Yeah, a chance of a snowball in hell they will ever see the money, largely

because the BMTA doesn't have that kind of money to give, and there will

be appeals on top of appeals and feet dragging to years to come...

I think the BMTA was right Bestrin did not pay taxes the buses were not delivered without any strings attached. Lets see what a higher court thinks. Maybe they should have given Bestrin more time to pay the taxes but it was their initial failure. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Darcula said:

Great, they can use this compensation to clear that unpaid Bt 844 million fine reportedly due to customs dept.

 

 

 

Yea if Bestrin had paid the taxes there would have been no problem they were the ones first at fault. 

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

Yeah, a chance of a snowball in hell they will ever see the money, largely

because the BMTA doesn't have that kind of money to give, and there will

be appeals on top of appeals and feet dragging to years to come...

And the lawyers are cracking open more champagne.

[Odysseus123]

Hoisted upon their own corrupt petard.

 

Little by little this Potemkin facade will be stripped away.

[Cadbury]

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

In other words, more than a billion

A mere bagatelle when compared to the 100 billion of Thai Niyom populist money been thrown about with great abandon by the PM.

I remember back in January of last year PM Prayut made a big media thing about how he was going to buy the first ticket on the first blue bus.

[Cadbury]

As I recall the Customs Department was trying to screw them over claiming the buses weren't assembled in Malaysia. Presumably hoping the threat would attract a very large envelope as a payoff for the boys at the top. What a big backfire making the government and the PM in particular now look foolish. 

Now we wait for the Kingsgate ruling.

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

As I recall the Customs Department was trying to screw them over claiming the buses weren't assembled in Malaysia. Presumably hoping the threat would attract a very large envelope as a payoff for the boys at the top. What a big backfire making the government and the PM in particular now look foolish. 

Now we wait for the Kingsgate ruling.

Not trying to screw them, the buses were not made where they stated they were made. That is not screwing someone over that is catching someone who files a false tax report.

[Rimmer]

A baiting post suggesting a poster is paid to post has been removed

[Cadbury]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not trying to screw them, the buses were not made where they stated they were made. That is not screwing someone over that is catching someone who files a false tax report.

I take thereport to mean (in a mishmash of words) what it says. That it did not matter where the buses were assembled.

Quote: Also, the courted noted that the origin of the buses which were supposed to be fully assembled in China was not an essence of this procurement contract although the contract stipulated that the buses must be fully assembled in China.

The court, however, ruled that there was no difference between the buses being fully assembled in China or in Malaysia as they serve the BMTA’s purpose to serve Bangkok bus commuters.

The crux of the matter is that the buses we available for delivery. It was the Customs that prevented that delivery. Nothing to do with tax returns.

Quote: The court ruled BMTA’s unilateral cancellation of the contract on ground that the suppliers did not supply the buses within the deadline as specified in the contract as wrongful.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Cadbury said:

I take thereport to mean (in a mishmash of words) what it says. That it did not matter where the buses were assembled.

Quote: Also, the courted noted that the origin of the buses which were supposed to be fully assembled in China was not an essence of this procurement contract although the contract stipulated that the buses must be fully assembled in China.

The court, however, ruled that there was no difference between the buses being fully assembled in China or in Malaysia as they serve the BMTA’s purpose to serve Bangkok bus commuters.

The crux of the matter is that the buses we available for delivery. It was the Customs that prevented that delivery. Nothing to do with tax returns.

Quote: The court ruled BMTA’s unilateral cancellation of the contract on ground that the suppliers did not supply the buses within the deadline as specified in the contract as wrongful.

Cadbury,

 

You right it should not matter for the contract between the BMA and Bestlin but the customs office has different rules. We are talking here about tax that the Bestrin still had to pay. 

 

Maybe the contract between the BMA and Bestrin still stands but that does not invalidate the tax claim. That are two separate issues.  Though if i was the BMA id try to void the contract too as it could land me in hot water with the tax office who might want to claim with the BMA.

 

Anyway lets see what a higher court says, because there might be more clauses in the contract. But even so it would not cancel the tax claim customs has on Bestrin.

 

If i were the BMA i would not have cancelled the busses but would have paid straight to the tax office first and the remainder to Bestrin this way Bestrin could not do a runner with the money. Maybe put the money in an escrow to make sure taxes are paid before. 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Cadbury,

 

You right it should not matter for the contract between the BMA and Bestlin but the customs office has different rules. We are talking here about tax that the Bestrin still had to pay. 

 

Maybe the contract between the BMA and Bestrin still stands but that does not invalidate the tax claim. That are two separate issues.  Though if i was the BMA id try to void the contract too as it could land me in hot water with the tax office who might want to claim with the BMA.

 

Anyway lets see what a higher court says, because there might be more clauses in the contract. But even so it would not cancel the tax claim customs has on Bestrin.

 

If i were the BMA i would not have cancelled the busses but would have paid straight to the tax office first and the remainder to Bestrin this way Bestrin could not do a runner with the money. Maybe put the money in an escrow to make sure taxes are paid before. 

The court specified it as "wrongful"-get the picture?

 

To repeat a Thai court specified it as "wrongful".Utterly amazing ..really..

 

The BMA is totally corrupt-even by Thai standards.

[Cadbury]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Cadbury,

 

You right it should not matter for the contract between the BMA and Bestlin but the customs office has different rules. We are talking here about tax that the Bestrin still had to pay. 

 

Maybe the contract between the BMA and Bestrin still stands but that does not invalidate the tax claim. That are two separate issues.  Though if i was the BMA id try to void the contract too as it could land me in hot water with the tax office who might want to claim with the BMA.

 

Anyway lets see what a higher court says, because there might be more clauses in the contract. But even so it would not cancel the tax claim customs has on Bestrin.

 

If i were the BMA i would not have cancelled the busses but would have paid straight to the tax office first and the remainder to Bestrin this way Bestrin could not do a runner with the money. Maybe put the money in an escrow to make sure taxes are paid before. 

Presumably now they will be able to pay the taxes out of the 1,159 million payout. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Cadbury

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Cadbury said:

Presumably now they will be able to pay the taxes out of the 1,159 million payout.

Lets hope so, my worries would be that Bestlrin would take the money and run. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

The court specified it as "wrongful"-get the picture?

 

To repeat a Thai court specified it as "wrongful".Utterly amazing ..really..

 

The BMA is totally corrupt-even by Thai standards.

You know as well as I do that different courts have different outcomes. I reserve my judgement for later. Contract judgement is not an easy thing and can be interpreted different by different judges. 

 

In my post, if you read it well i said that indeed maybe the termination was wrongful however that does not mean Bestrin does not have to pay the tax. Those are two different issues.

 

I personally would have worried too if I were the BMA the tax office might just try to change who has to pay the taxes if Bestrin would do a runner with the money. Reason I am thinking they could do that is simple, they expected a profitable deal but now that they have to pay taxes they might lose money. Only way to avoid it is is keep the money from the BMA and not pay taxes. In that case the BMA might be liable. 

 

That the BMA is corrupt has nothing to do with it in this case. They are just protecting themselves. I would have tried it through an escrow to ensure payment to the tax office was done instead of canceling the whole contract.

 

Maybe your right and corruption played a part in the decission (having a second auction could get them new brown enveloppes). But the reasons IMHO to cancel were not imaginary. Bestrin tried to cheat the tax office and in doing so posed a risk. 

[Cadbury]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Lets hope so, my worries would be that Bestlrin would take the money and run. 

Belstin is a Thai company. Taking money and running is part of Thai corporate and civil service culture. So the government looks like having to indirectly pay the import tax on the buses itself because Customs refused the delivery. The irony of it!

Edited April 11, 2018 by Cadbury

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Cadbury said:

Belstin is a Thai company. Taking money and running is part of Thai corporate and civil service culture. So the government looks like having to pay the import tax on the buses itself because Customs refused the delivery. The irony of it!

I am not 100% sure that the BMA is liable, they COULD be liable if Belstin does not pay. So I don't think this is the end  of the court proceedings the BMA would / should not give up that easily. If they could pay the taxes and the remainder to Belstin it would be good for them.

 

They would still have too many buses, but that would be their own fault, given how many bad buses there are driving around that might not even be a bad thing. Still im curious what the outcome will be. 

 

One thing is for sure the whole debacle is not good for the BKK pollution.

 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, overherebc said:

And the lawyers are cracking open more champagne.

 

Don't forget to order a few Mercedes Benz too.

[Wilson Smith]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

I think the BMTA was right Bestrin did not pay taxes the buses were not delivered without any strings attached. Lets see what a higher court thinks. Maybe they should have given Bestrin more time to pay the taxes but it was their initial failure. 

If they had planned to pay the taxes they would not have won the bid, all the other companies opted out of the bid because they knew the deliverable price was impossible. The plan via Malaysia did not work and there you go!

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Wilson Smith said:

If they had planned to pay the taxes they would not have won the bid, all the other companies opted out of the bid because they knew the deliverable price was impossible. The plan via Malaysia did not work and there you go!

Those are my thoughts exactly, that is why I understand that the BMA did not want to receive them, they probably feared that the taxes if they could not be collected from Bestrin then they would have to pay them. Quite reasonable expectation, so I understand why they cancelled the contract, they could have tried with an escrow account, meaning that Bestrin could only get to the money after they paid taxes. 

 

So lets wait and see what other courts say, if they can pay the tax directly to the tax office and the remainder to Bestrin that would be a good solution too. Not for Bestrin of course. 

[ChrisY1]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Not trying to screw them, the buses were not made where they stated they were made. That is not screwing someone over that is catching someone who files a false tax report.

Given this result, are you now sure of the buses origin?

[robblok]

1 minute ago, ChrisY1 said:

Given this result, are you now sure of the buses origin?

Yes I am, because this was not a tax ruling. This was merely a ruling about the contract between BMA and Bestrin. I still feel the BMA is right to at least hold payment and maybe pay part to the tax office and part to Bestrin in a way they can prevent being liable for the tax. Maybe canceling was a bit over the top, not 100% sure of that lets see what other courts think about it. I am sure the BMA will let a higher court look at this. 

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Those are my thoughts exactly, that is why I understand that the BMA did not want to receive them, they probably feared that the taxes if they could not be collected from Bestrin then they would have to pay them. Quite reasonable expectation, so I understand why they cancelled the contract, they could have tried with an escrow account, meaning that Bestrin could only get to the money after they paid taxes. 

 

So lets wait and see what other courts say, if they can pay the tax directly to the tax office and the remainder to Bestrin that would be a good solution too. Not for Bestrin of course. 

My goodness-you  must live a miserably educated life.

 

Thoughts,sympathies..rush out to you.

 

May I GIVE YOU A HUG?

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

My goodness-you  must live a miserably educated life.

 

Thoughts,sympathies..rush out to you.

 

May I GIVE YOU A HUG?

Yea that is probably the difference between us, i got an education and you have not.. or at least no business education. I have a lot to do with the law, read a lot about it so yes I see things different.

 

No need for a hug, I lead a perfectly happy life, only got better recently.