Swiss/Thai Children who fell from Bangkok flats: Swiss father is English teacher in Thailand and says he was denied access

[snoop1130]

Swiss/Thai Children who fell from Bangkok flats: Swiss father is English teacher in Thailand and says he was denied access

 

 

The Swiss father of the children who fell from the fourth floor of some flats in Bangkok has gone to Hua Mark police.

 

He is Michael Leon Borel (name taken from Thai TV). He told the cops he is at the center of a custody battle over his children.

 

He is an English teacher living in another Bangkok district.

 

He split up from his Thai wife some while ago and he told the cops that he has been denied access to see his children.

 

Thai media has reported that the children were living in poverty.

 

The children - aged 11,10, 7 and five - all fell from the flats in Ramkhamhaeng Soi 34 in the middle of the night.

 

The five year old died from head trauma. The others - two with broken legs - are now recovering.

 

Other details of the tragedy also were revealed on Thai Channel 3 news.

 

The children were home alone in the fourth floor flat. Their grandmother and grandfather occupied a flat on the first floor and had put them to bed and locked them in before going to bed themselves.

 

The eldest of the children has said that the youngest got entangled in a net by a platform used for draining plates.

 

The other children had gone onto the platform in an effort to help him before it collapsed under their collective weight.

 

The little one had been hungry for a midnight snack that the eldest had prepared before doing the dishes.

 

Their mother was out working during the night. It has not been revealed what she does. 

 

Heart wrenching interviews with the mother and grandmother were shown on national television. The grandmother said fighting back the tears that only that evening the five year old had asked her to take him to school next day. 

 

Now he is dead.

 

Police told Thai Rath that no charges have yet been made in the matter.

 

Injury reports and other procedural matters are all part of the ongoing investigation.

 

Source: https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1270851 & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuRsv3L-tfw

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-5-2

[Blue Muton]

Just a sad tale all round, R.I.P.

[smedly]

The Children were left alone in the flat unsupervised by an adult, who is to blame for this tragedy - certainly not the children

 

RIP little one

[Get Real]

11 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

grandmother and grandfather occupied a flat on the first floor and had put them to bed and locked them in

Doesn´t look like that to me.

And if they were living in such awful conditions and in powerty. Why didn´t the father staying and working in Thailand get the children with him during the custody hearings?

Seems like many people, all form familt members to authorities have been ignorant once again, leading to a terrible accident.

The part of the balcony that fell, was also something that people without knowledge built themself. Also hera it must be laws, that regulates this and devilers a severe penalty.
 

 

11 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Their mother was out working during the night. It has not been revealed what she does.

Why do they have to write like this. The thai news already stated that she work night a an already specified hotel. Articles with information like this only creates assumption from people. Thinking that she worked in the sex business is very easy when stated like that. This woman and her separated husband have enough problems already, withhout the news giving information for others to speculate.

[Borzandy]

46 minutes ago, Get Real said:

And if they were living in such awful conditions and in powerty. Why didn´t the father staying and working in Thailand get the children with him during the custody hearings?

Because the father is farang and he was not allowed to see his kids. It's Thais laws.

[hansnl]

38 minutes ago, Borzandy said:

Because the father is farang and he was not allowed to see his kids. It's Thais laws.

Amen.

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, Borzandy said:

Because the father is farang and he was not allowed to see his kids. It's Thais laws.

It´s not the Thai law at all. Please read the good book, Sir!

 

The father made two misstakes if he is not allowed to see his children:

 

1. He is not registrered as the legal father of the children. Name on birth certificate is not valid.

 

2. He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.

 

Of course, there can be another reason. In that case there is something negative about the father. Like abuse, anger or something underlying we are not aware of yet.

 

 

[robertthesculptor]

Sad that arrogance by officials put these children at risk. They would have been happy living with dad who had a job and cared about and for them. Smells like discrimination and xenophobia....

[connda]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

locked them in before going to bed themselves.

Locked the children in a room?  Doesn't anyone else see a problem with that? 

[HHTel]

27 minutes ago, Get Real said:

The father made two misstakes if he is not allowed to see his children:

 

1. He is not registrered as the legal father of the children. Name on birth certificate is not valid.

 

2. He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.

Quote

He told the cops he is at the center of a custody battle over his children.

If that is true then it's quite possible that he would need the courts to give him the right of access.  I've been through this but unfortunately, the courts don't work at a fast pace.  

[Srikcir]

32 minutes ago, Get Real said:

He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.

"He told the cops he is at the center of a custody battle over his children."

Thai mother vs farang father. Until this dispute is settled, it's reasonable that the mother will retain full custody, especially since her parents can assist.

[Get Real]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

"He told the cops he is at the center of a custody battle over his children."

Thai mother vs farang father. Until this dispute is settled, it's reasonable that the mother will retain full custody, especially since her parents can assist.

Reasonable within reason, yes. Children living in poverty, in unsafe buildnings, with somebody just locking the entrance door at night without further supervision. 
I know many laywers that would smash that mothers rights into small and tiny bits and pieces. Still, that is if the father would fight for it.

[Bangkok Barry]

3 hours ago, Get Real said:

Thinking that she worked in the sex business is very easy when stated like that.

 

It is in Thailand, yes, such is the culture and reputation of the country. And it is a journalist doing a poor job, which is not an unusual thing in Thailand either.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Bangkok Barry

[AsiaHand]

3 hours ago, Get Real said:

Doesn´t look like that to me.

And if they were living in such awful conditions and in powerty. Why didn´t the father staying and working in Thailand get the children with him during the custody hearings?

Seems like many people, all form familt members to authorities have been ignorant once again, leading to a terrible accident.

The part of the balcony that fell, was also something that people without knowledge built themself. Also hera it must be laws, that regulates this and devilers a severe penalty.
 

 

Why do they have to write like this. The thai news already stated that she work night a an already specified hotel. Articles with information like this only creates assumption from people. Thinking that she worked in the sex business is very easy when stated like that. This woman and her separated husband have enough problems already, withhout the news giving information for others to speculate.

The father is a teacher at one of the (so called international) schools paying a very low salary. which is probably why he has been trying for over three years to get custody and being denied..

Edited May 3, 2018 by AsiaHand

[Get Real]

8 minutes ago, AsiaHand said:

The father is a teacher at one of the (so called international) schools paying a very low salary. which is probably why he has been trying for over three years to get custody and being denied..

Ok! If I am not misinformed. The lowest salury to pay a foreign teacher is around 30K baht a month.
That would according to me be much more than the mothers registrered salury, according to the living standards.

I guess he will have to find a better laywer. 

[Mickmouse1]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

"He told the cops he is at the center of a custody battle over his children."

Thai mother vs farang father. Until this dispute is settled, it's reasonable that the mother will retain full custody, especially since her parents can assist.

All three have failed in their duty to care for the children. 

[Spaniel]

Even if he was involved in a custody battle couldn't he have still made some arrangement  with the mother to provide some kind of monthly support?

[metisdead]

A troll post and a reply have been removed

[Sumarianson]

It´s not the Thai law at all. Please read the good book, Sir!
 
The father made two misstakes if he is not allowed to see his children:
 
1. He is not registrered as the legal father of the children. Name on birth certificate is not valid.
 
2. He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.
 
Of course, there can be another reason. In that case there is something negative about the father. Like abuse, anger or something underlying we are not aware of yet.
 
 

I have all the necessary paperwork to show I am father of my child. The mother is a sociopath. It would cost a minimum of 1Mil Baht to fight a court case with no guarantee of winning or getting half the time with my child. The mother has to agree in Thailand to any terms. So when you are dealing with someone without emotion you have no hope in Thai court system. It is inadequate and expensive for a farang like everything else in Thailand.
Dont blame the father for the negligence of the mother and her family.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sumarianson]

If that is true then it's quite possible that he would need the courts to give him the right of access.  I've been through this but unfortunately, the courts don't work at a fast pace.  

Did you get 50% custody or visiting rights? How much did it cost?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

Ok! If I am not misinformed. The lowest salury to pay a foreign teacher is around 30K baht a month.
That would according to me be much more than the mothers registrered salury, according to the living standards.

I guess he will have to find a better laywer. 

Wearing the rosey specs again I see. How's your mate Suradit?

[Get Real]

9 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Wearing the rosey specs again I see. How's your mate Suradit?

Another strange comment from a person the is trying to beat Mr. Know Nothing in the lowest possible score that can be measured with the most modern equipment.

Just read the links, and then it was ablot the rosey specs. I guess I will let you wear them. They suit you much better. 

https://www.gooverseas.com/blog/how-much-can-you-earn-teaching-english-in-thailand

 

http://tastythailand.com/whats-the-average-salary-for-an-english-teacher-in-bangkok-thailand/

 

https://www.i-to-i.com/tefl-blog/teaching-english-asia/efl-teaching-how-much-to-budget-for-thailand/

And then the final question? How is Suradit? You know him well?

[Get Real]

31 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

I have all the necessary paperwork to show I am father of my child. The mother is a sociopath. It would cost a minimum of 1Mil Baht to fight a court case with no guarantee of winning or getting half the time with my child. The mother has to agree in Thailand to any terms. So when you are dealing with someone without emotion you have no hope in Thai court system. It is inadequate and expensive for a farang like everything else in Thailand.
Dont blame the father for the negligence of the mother and her family.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Nope! That´s not right. I f you have all the papers that makes you a legalized father, not only your namne on the birth certificate, then you have the right to demand time with your child or children according to the Thai familiy court. Just been in phone with them, and according to them you go there with your papers and tell them you want to see your children. After that they summon the mother and you for a meeting. At that meeting a timetable should be drawn up. If an agreement can not be made, the court will rule a decision.

If the mother after that choose to disobey the court order, you can go further to seek full custody, due to that she is breaking the family law.

[lemonjelly]

4 hours ago, Get Real said:

It´s not the Thai law at all. Please read the good book, Sir!

 

The father made two misstakes if he is not allowed to see his children:

 

1. He is not registrered as the legal father of the children. Name on birth certificate is not valid.

 

2. He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.

 

Of course, there can be another reason. In that case there is something negative about the father. Like abuse, anger or something underlying we are not aware of yet.

 

 

Does having your name as the father on the child’s birth certificate not legally make you the father? 

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

Did you get 50% custody or visiting rights? How much did it cost?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I got full custody, 50% of all property and she had to leave the house to boot!  Although I did have to pay a nominal rent for her share in the house.

 

Probably spent 150,000 with lawyer and court fees.

Edited May 3, 2018 by HHTel
addition

[Megasin1]

It's never easy fighting over your kids, however in this case I am going firmly with the 'it's the mother's fault'

oh yes, sure I am certain that the father could have done more to help, unfortunately relationship breakups can become vindictive, however this should have not stopped him contributing something towards the upkeep of his kids, nor that it says anywhere that he didn't

This for me is about who was the primary carer at the time and that was the mother, even in her absence. It was her responsibility to provide adequate care of the children during her absences and quite plainly she didn't.

I feel really sorry and saddened that a young life was lost due to negligent parental care and hope that the other kids recover from losing such a young sibling and receive the care and attention that they deserve.

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, lemonjelly said:

Does having your name as the father on the child’s birth certificate not legally make you the father? 

No, in Thailand that is just a note on a paper. Your name on the birth certificate does not give you legal rights as a father, and it will not make you the father of the child in a legal case.
Before, you had to go to court with either the child if old enough, or with the mother to get yourself legalized as a father according to the Thai family law. 

If the mother is refusing to do it, and you do not have access to your child or the child is not old enough to legalize you, then your other option is to get a dna test and go to court yourself and get it done.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Get Real

[4evermaat]

Where in the article (any article) is it stated that the Swiss father in this case did not provide any financial support or other support to his biological children? 

[jenny2017]

7 hours ago, Borzandy said:

Because the father is farang and he was not allowed to see his kids. It's Thais laws.

Regarding the article in Thai, he doesn't have custody. Perhaps his name is not on their birth certificates? Who knows? 

[jenny2017]

28 minutes ago, 4evermaat said:

Where in the article (any article) is it stated that the Swiss father in this case did not provide any financial support or other support to his biological children? 

There's an article before describing them as very poor that the mother has to work at night to support her kids.

 

   Nothing about financial support from daddy. Can you show a link, please?