Dowry?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

A house for her parents would be appropriate if not married before. If married before 100k will be OK. Depends on your love ?

Would you build a house for a woman's parents in your own country?

What are they living in already? Why is it not good enough?

 

There is never a case for sin sod if she was married before. They have already been paid once for her- that's enough. I just gave some for MIL's face and got it back after.

 

Looking back, best thing I did in my marriage was NOT building her a house, as impossible to take that with one after divorce, and they might have called the police if I tried to bulldoze it.

[thaibeachlovers]

OP is probably more confused now than before he asked the question.

 

My number one rule in LOS has always been to never spend more than I could afford.

If the OP can afford to give it away, do whatever makes him happy. The marriage will either work out or it won't, whatever he does about sin sod. It's no guarantee, and there is no refund for false advertising or defective goods.

[AYJAYDEE]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Would you build a house for a woman's parents in your own country?

What are they living in already? Why is it not good enough?

 

There is never a case for sin sod if she was married before. They have already been paid once for her- that's enough. I just gave some for MIL's face and got it back after.

 

Looking back, best thing I did in my marriage was NOT building her a house, as impossible to take that with one after divorce, and they might have called the police if I tried to bulldoze it.

I did everything contrary to your advice many years ago and it couldnt have worked out better. "never" is something that should never be said

 

[55Jay]

Do the show money if you can.  That's what I did.  Parents were in their mid-70s, not well off but said we should use the money for ourselves as we had so much more life ahead of us.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Not really relevant. A dowry is no longer part of most western marriage culture, while in different ways, it is still very much part of some Asian marriage cultures.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

That only holds true if both parties are Thai. If one is planning to take the beloved back to one's own country to live, why should one not use one's own culture and demand the bride's parents pay for the wedding?

Even if living in LOS, it's not the farang's culture, and he is under no obligation to abide by culture that is not covered by law. Ie, one can't disrespect religion in LOS as that is covered by law, but there is nothing to make me sit on the floor to eat or take my shoes off at the door of my own house. Sin sod is not mandated by law, so is optional.

[totally thaied up]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Frankly, I'm not interested in tales of village paradise where farangs live in bliss with the delightful family that love them more than their own.

Village bliss is possible but for me, if I was any further than 20 minutes from the center of Chiang Mai, I could not do it. Way out in the sticks where the buffalo bellow, not a chance!

 

Still, your tune might change if it all fell in your lap, and that you found some form of happiness with someone. Your happiness might be a beach or a mountain retreat. We all differ greatly and most of us are happy when we have company.

 

These days, a bar girl looking on her phone all day acting dumb and disappears the next day after you bar fined her for a week as she has found a higher-paying punter, is not my ideal time anymore. Lol, I had that happen to me in Krabi many, many years ago after flying her down from Bangkok. Jumped on a plane and headed backward to Bangers as one of her higher-paying customers came back early from Europe. Boy, was I green around the gills then! Sorted me out big time that trip!

 

Sure, nothing is all beer and great times, yet if you do find it, it is much more comforting, then a short time room and a bar girl. I did that for years, will not deny it at all. Banged in the literal hundreds until the shine fell off and I just understood one thing; I was mostly hurting myself. Marriage has a place in life but for some, the 'grass is always greener on the other side'. Once you jump to the other side, it is not what it seems, it can sincerely be a shock. I did not truthfully like my previous lifestyle deep down. 

Under-sexed older farangs are just easy bait for ruthless girls. I see it weekly within our area. Guys who have been with only one or two partners their whole life, suddenly being offered sex every night from a different girl; however, it is not all as it seems if you take your time.

 

No girl is distinctive no matter what race. We sooner must realize this fact; then how much easier life in reality gets. Cultural issues of Sin Sot have a place, but that is up to you to decide how to take it all. So once again, solely your choice.

 

If you got your smarts on, it is pretty easy to see the motives of the family and girls...

Edited May 8, 2018 by totally thaied up
spelling and tidying up

[AYJAYDEE]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That only holds true if both parties are Thai. If one is planning to take the beloved back to one's own country to live, why should one not use one's own culture and demand the bride's parents pay for the wedding?

Even if living in LOS, it's not the farang's culture, and he is under no obligation to abide by culture that is not covered by law. Ie, one can't disrespect religion in LOS as that is covered by law, but there is nothing to make me sit on the floor to eat or take my shoes off at the door of my own house. Sin sod is not mandated by law, so is optional.

so is her choice of you and/or her family's good treatment of you

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

I did everything contrary to your advice many years ago and it couldnt have worked out better. "never" is something that should never be said

 

You wuz lucky. Many have not been.

 

My advice- exactly. It's only advice, and no one, let alone the OP is obligated to take any notice of it.

However, had someone given me such advice before I married, I'd be happier and richer than I am now. I'd still have married her, but not moved to the village, and stayed in Pattaya ( they live in the north ). Even if we had still got divorced, I'd have protected my money better and not bought as many things that have ended up with the in laws.

[AYJAYDEE]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You wuz lucky. Many have not been.

 

My advice- exactly. It's only advice, and no one, let alone the OP is obligated to take any notice of it.

However, had someone given me such advice before I married, I'd be happier and richer than I am now. I'd still have married her, but not moved to the village, and stayed in Pattaya ( they live in the north ). Even if we had still got divorced, I'd have protected my money better and not bought as many things that have ended up with the in laws.

as I said earlier, I know more that had what I experienced what than what your did. its more than luck.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

so is her choice of you and/or her family's good treatment of you

 

No argument, but let's not forget that it is usually the farang paying for most things. I gave my ex a far better life than she could have expected on here own or with a Thai guy. Her ex Thai husband used her money to whore and drink.

It's not a marriage of financial equals in most cases, like it would be back home where both contribute half.

[AYJAYDEE]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

No argument, but let's not forget that it is usually the farang paying for most things. I gave my ex a far better life than she could have expected on here own or with a Thai guy. Her ex Thai husband used her money to whore and drink.

It's not a marriage of financial equals in most cases, like it would be back home where both contribute half.

you wont pay for anything if she shows you the door

[phetpeter]

My wife of 16 years, told me I wasn't to pay sin sot, as she had been married before and had a child, so, she is a free gift! and you know its rude to return gifts, so, no refunds for the return of faulty goods!

[Elkski]

I recently had a conversation with three different Thai women about sin sod.  They all said previous marriage(s) or children has no bearing in this which I find odd. 

This means the more marriage's a woman has the more money the family gets.   What a dumb tradition. 

They all said this is very important Thai tradition to show respect and face for the family.  

I was not able to get an amount from any of the women.  Seems like a poker game?  Maybe the parents job to negotiate this?

One woman said a thai man in her Village has evidently agreed upon $50,000 baht for his previously married girl friend with three kids. They plan to marry in November.  I found it odd that this woman already knew about the money. But I guess he is like an adopted brother   I would think 50,000 baht for a farmer would be a lot of money.  

 

I can see 200,000  or 6,400 USD being ok for me.  Especially if getting half back.    Plus a big village party.   

 

I liked to advice of demanding to be the head of the family.  I like the advice about making sure all siblings contribute their share.   I would make splitting the land contingent on all siblings contributions to support Mom.  Seems to always be one sucker daughter carrying the load.  

The way I see it most farang are going to be the smartest man in the village with the best decision making ability.  So mum should be proud of a take charge guy. 

 

As to the guy who gave millions.  I'm glad it's in the wife's account.  But I imagine you are providing an nice ongoing gift stream.  Why would they be unhappy until their pond is as full as yours. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Elkski

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

The dowry is, and probably always will be a serious tradition here in Thailand. 

Nonsense, loads of people don't do it anymore.

[phetpeter]

Personally, if the main thing on your wife to be's mind is dowry, perhaps it would be best to extend the courtship for another 6 to 12 months. Just to be certain that she really does care for you and not just the cash!

[The Fat Controller]

@Elkski, not the case !

 

No ongoing gift stream, the money is still in the bank.

 

My wife owns 2 houses and 2 apartment buildings (total of 38 rooms for rent), so the stream runs the other way, the business income takes care of all the expenses (including me) and we still save some every month.

 

My mother-in-law gifted us the family home after she had built her own retirement home out in the countryside (her own money) along with several plots of land.

 

I still have my house in Scotland along with a decent company pension and currently split my time between here and Thailand, being together 24/7 365 days a year is not for either of us right now.

 

To the OP, do whatever you feel comfortable with, make sure you know the family you are getting involved with and never bring to Thailand anything you cannot afford to walk away from.

[khunPer]

16 hours ago, Craigee34 said:

I a bit confused about the dowry and how it works

There are several threads in the forums about this subject, and probably more opinions than threads.

 

It's a traditional custom kept well alive – however some families only use the "sin sot" dowry to show it (make face), and give it back to the new married couple – the custom reflects not only the value of the young lady, but also shows that her future husband is able to financially provide for her (and sometimes her family also).

 

Do yourself a favor, read the book "Good Medicine for THAILAND FEVER" by Chris Pirazzi & Vitada Vasant (Paiboon ISBN 1-887521-48-8), I presume you haven't read it, asking the question.. It covers both your question about sin sot, and money in general, but also a lot of vital matters for a successful foreign-Thai relationship, with all it's challenges from a wide cultural gap. The book is written both in Thai and English (and translated to some more languages), and also covers the "farang" part of the relationship, so it worth reading either together, or each of you, for a better understanding of the partner, and great future. There is a reading example at thailandfever.com.

[welovethailand]

I posted "Introduced to a Thai in the US (worked at Thai resturant) and married her. Said I would not pay , but would take good care of her. Lasted 7 years,,,she stole alot money.

Married again, 8 years now, no dowry, still doing good."

Forgot to say, she was 38 yr old virgin,no kids...still, no money, just "I take good care of you".

[catman20]

4 hours ago, meechai said:

Yes thank you !

Also she had a big smile when I read her your question

thx for your reply, i wish you both well for the future. good luck.

[atyclb]

seems the ultimate way for a thai man go gain face is to marry a japanese gal.  many peers have much respect for that and no dawry to boot.

 

if i ever were to get married again it could be a japanese gal

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

I liked to advice of demanding to be the head of the family.  I like the advice about making sure all siblings contribute their share.   I would make splitting the land contingent on all siblings contributions to support Mom.  Seems to always be one sucker daughter carrying the load.  

The way I see it most farang are going to be the smartest man in the village with the best decision making ability.  So mum should be proud of a take charge guy. 

Dream on.

You obviously have no idea how Thai families work. Farangs come somewhere below the soi dogs in status.

If you think you are going to be "in charge" of anything, you are in for a very large shock of reality.

Laying down the law on land splitting .

In Thai culture, it is the daughter's responsibility to take care of the parents. Boys get to be lazy sods and live off other people which is why they want daughter to marry rich farang ATM.

Regardless of your "smarts", no one in the village will take any notice of you telling them what to do. Only they know anything- farangs only useful for money.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, phetpeter said:

Personally, if the main thing on your wife to be's mind is dowry, perhaps it would be best to extend the courtship for another 6 to 12 months. Just to be certain that she really does care for you and not just the cash!

Even better another 24 to 48 months. 12 months is nothing in the long con.

Edited May 8, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[Poottrong]

Here's another way to look at it. Even if us farangs have a fairly average level of wealth, or even somewhat below average by our own country standards we are nevertheless several orders of magnitude above the level of the average rural Isaan family (don't tell me  that you're not!). Ever wanted to give some charity to the less fortunate? Here's your chance. Your future in-laws have probably had a hard, hand-to-mouth existence for their entire lives. Even if you don't particularly like them they did produce your wife which is something to be grateful for. Besides, from a selfish point of view it's better to give to them and create some familial goodwill than to random strangers. Here's the caveats: tell them it's a once off payment so they don't get any ideas of money flowing endlessly every month for eternity and don't make it a crazy Sinsod; just one that a reasonably well- to-do Thai would pay - ditto for the wedding cost itself Everyone will get face from that, including your wife.

 

As for how much that should be. Ask you future wife. She should have your best interests at heart and if you're thinking she's asking for too much then she probably is and that is one hell of red flag right there. Great litmus test when you think about it.

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

This is suppose to be old Thai culture.  You are not Thai !! 
I do not understand why Farang's fall for this scam. Because of social media - Facebook and Pantiff the word is out , get all the money you can from Farang.  Moms are now pushing there daughters to marry Farang and get house and pickup. Fools and there money.

But presumably you're marrying into a Thai family? No one is forced to follow the tradition or the culture.

That only holds true if both parties are Thai. If one is planning to take the beloved back to one's own country to live, why should one not use one's own culture and demand the bride's parents pay for the wedding?
Even if living in LOS, it's not the farang's culture, and he is under no obligation to abide by culture that is not covered by law. Ie, one can't disrespect religion in LOS as that is covered by law, but there is nothing to make me sit on the floor to eat or take my shoes off at the door of my own house. Sin sod is not mandated by law, so is optional.

Sure. I married my wife in the UK - no sinsod. Had we married in her village in Laos, sinsod would have been part of the ceremony as it is in all weddings there.

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[KhaoYai]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Dream on.

You obviously have no idea how Thai families work. Farangs come somewhere below the soi dogs in status.

If you think you are going to be "in charge" of anything, you are in for a very large shock of reality.

Laying down the law on land splitting .

In Thai culture, it is the daughter's responsibility to take care of the parents. Boys get to be lazy sods and live off other people which is why they want daughter to marry rich farang ATM.

Regardless of your "smarts", no one in the village will take any notice of you telling them what to do. Only they know anything- farangs only useful for money.

Maybe in your version of Thai families. Not being rude but it is impossible for you to know how all Thai families work.  Despite all the bad stories of farangs getting ripped off, chewed up and spat out, such families remain in the minority - at least they are in the ones I know. I guess it depends on which circles you choose to mix in.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Dream on.

You obviously have no idea how Thai families work. Farangs come somewhere below the soi dogs in status.

If you think you are going to be "in charge" of anything, you are in for a very large shock of reality.

Laying down the law on land splitting .

In Thai culture, it is the daughter's responsibility to take care of the parents. Boys get to be lazy sods and live off other people which is why they want daughter to marry rich farang ATM.

Regardless of your "smarts", no one in the village will take any notice of you telling them what to do. Only they know anything- farangs only useful for money.

No have no idea about how to interact with Thai's then. Agreed that a farang who marries a bar girl half his age or even less, who leaves everything to handle to his wife including solving issues as "Thai's handle with Thai's", doesn't get any respect. If you have a personality and ain't scared of every Thai for giving your opinion, you do get respect. Not everybody might like you but you can't win them all.

[The Fat Controller]

Trying to make a Thai do it the farang way doesn't work well, however a liitle bit of psychology often works.

 

Ask them "Do you think if YOU do it that way it might work?", go away and let them have a think, it then becomes their idea and everyone is happy.

 

In my Thai family, the only problem is the lazy brother-in-law, my wife does not speak to him as he has been abusive to their mother, he will get a shock when she passes as nobody will give him the time of day let alone a satang.

 

All the uncles, aunts and cousins have been great, no handouts asked for at all and they are genuinely happy to see me when we meet up and  find it amusing I can actually eat Thai food.

[MaeJoMTB]

16 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

 If you have a personality and ain't scared of every Thai for giving your opinion, you do get respect. Not everybody might like you but you can't win them all.

I've never given a Thai my opinion, I keep myself to myself and let them do the same.

MY wife and children speak English, I don't speak to any of her family either. They say nothing I want or need to hear.

[Poottrong]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

 Despite all the bad stories of farangs getting ripped off, chewed up and spat out, such families remain in the minority - at least they are in the ones I know. I guess it depends on which circles you choose to mix in.

 

 "Despite all the bad stories of farangs getting ripped off, chewed up and spat out, such families remain in the minority"

To be honest I don't think that's true. Let's face it: a good chunk (half?) of farangs marry girls  a good deal younger than them who are mixed up in the bar trade somehow and have an illegitimate kid or too to boot and come from families with dubious ethical principals. Pretty safe to say that's not going to work out too well in the majority of cases (though not all by any means!).

 

As you say, depends who you know and which circles you mix but overall I think successful farang/thai relationships are probably  a minority rather than a majority.

 

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

46 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I've never given a Thai my opinion, I keep myself to myself and let them do the same.

MY wife and children speak English, I don't speak to any of her family either. They say nothing I want or need to hear.

You must have a great life.