Personnal income tax

[Aforek]

Hello 

 

I am retired in Thailand for 7 and a half years, full time  ; today, the e-revenue in my province told me that I have to pay PIT ( personal Income tax ) for my pension money I get from my country

I suppose that if they tell it , it's true ( I must come and see them tomorrow with my girlfriend ) ; do you know which % I have to pay, and what is strange, I have never heard of this tax !

Can you tell me what you know about it ? thanks 

[BEVUP]

 Maybe after them explaining themselves ( if able to ), you might throvv the question of - " Do you Tax your Civil servants pensions "

Even though there vvould be a cash difference 

Do you get it put in a Thai or Home bank ?

 

[allane]

If your country has a tax treaty with Thailand, there should be no tax payable in Thailand on your home country pension.

[jackdd]

Do you pay tax on your pension in your home country?

[Aforek]

28 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Do you pay tax on your pension in your home country?

I don't pay taxes because my pension is too low, in my country ( France ), but I declare my pension in France and if my pension was higher, I would pay taxes in France

there are text in English or French for DTA ( http://www.rd.go.th/publish/766.0.html )

Where can I have them in Thai language ?

 

I found the same in Thai 

 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/765.0.html

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Aforek

[dabhand]

Did you have any direct contact with the Thai tax department prior to this recent request to pay tax?

 

Such as claiming for refund of taxes withheld on bank interest or asking for a TIN (tax id number) from the Thai tax department because your home country bank had asked for this? Or any other reason for them to have your local details to enable them to contact you?

 

How did they contact you? By mail / telephone or other way?

 

 

[Aforek]

28 minutes ago, dabhand said:

Did you have any direct contact with the Thai tax department prior to this recent request to pay tax?

 

Such as claiming for refund of taxes withheld on bank interest or asking for a TIN (tax id number) from the Thai tax department because your home country bank had asked for this? Or any other reason for them to have your local details to enable them to contact you?

 

How did they contact you? By mail / telephone or other way?

 

 

Never any contact before, if I knew, I wouldn't have came there !

It was for claiming for refund of taxes witheld on bank interest ; because I didn't receive any refund, I came to my ampoe, and they told me to go directly to the e-revenue office, and then, they asked me questions ; but do I have to pay ? there is a convention between Thailand and my country to avoid double tax, I have printed the convention in Thai 

 

She gave me this document in English , and told to look at  1 and 2

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Edited May 15, 2018 by Aforek

[55Jay]

The Thai Tax Office where I live raised the same question when I was summoned to their office after filing a bank interest tax refund request. 

 

I knew my country and Thailand had a tax treaty in place.  The Supervisor had to satisfy herself.  She returned after 15 minutes, said no problem, and told the clerk to proceed with my bank interest tax refund.

[dabhand]

14 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Never any contact before, if I knew, I wouldn't have came there !

It was for claiming for refund of taxes witheld on bank interest ; because I didn't receive any refund, I came to my ampoe, and they told me to go directly to the e-revenue office, and then, they asked me questions ; but do I have to pay ? there is a convention between Thailand and my country to avoid double tax, I have printed the convention in Thai 

 

She gave me this document in English , and told to look at  1 and 2

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Article 18 of the DTA seems to suggest that private pensions 'may' be taxed in your home country. Also depends what the Thai version states as that would be what the Tax Department would actually look at. That might satisfy the Tax office. Worth a try.

 

Personally, I see no advantage in having any voluntary contact with the local tax guys if the only benefit is the recovery of a few thousand baht in tax withheld. But maybe that's just me. 

[observer90210]

Another good reason to have really just the minimum cash in a Thai Bank...this is one big trap in Thailand...for years nobody will apply the law, and suddenly somebody will turn up and start picking on the farangs to try and get in some more money from them.

[BEVUP]

17 minutes ago, dabhand said:

Article 18 of the DTA seems to suggest that private pensions 'may' be taxed in your home country. Also depends what the Thai version states as that would be what the Tax Department would actually look at. That might satisfy the Tax office. Worth a try.

 

Personally, I see no advantage in having any voluntary contact with the local tax guys if the only benefit is the recovery of a few thousand baht in tax withheld. But maybe that's just me. 

I read this as meaning "private" not government.

The gov. pension vvould be untaxable as it may fall under the taxable yearly amount, but add in a Private pension, then you may go above that amount 

[jackdd]

There is also a law which says only income which is brought into Thailand in the year it's earned is taxable.

So if you receive the pension on a bank account in France and then transfer it to Thailand you can just say this are your savings and not your pension

To make it 100% safe you can gather your pension for a year on your bank account in France and then transfer everything the following year to Thailand

[grollies]

3 hours ago, Aforek said:

It was for claiming for refund of taxes witheld on bank interest ;

Screw that. If your bank account interest earnings are that high that you feel you have to claim back the tax witheld on the interest, fair enough.

 

My UK interest earnings on a considerable amount banked were pitifull and the interest deducted at source minimal.

 

Best here I find is head down, pay the tax deducted from the bank interest and keep away from all gov agencies.

 

There is always a price to pay for living here.

 

Agree with @jackdd

Edited May 15, 2018 by grollies

[mogandave]

The interest rate here is much better than the rate in the US and when you couple that with the hit the dollar took this and my Thai savings account did pretty well.

[topt]

6 hours ago, Aforek said:

and then, they asked me questions ;

Depends what questions they asked and how you answered?

I had this over a year ago at Jomtien and had to tick boxes and sign a poorly translated sheet. It was suggested I answer no to a specific question after I queried it (it was not clear) to avoid issues and I have not heard anything since. 

 

As @jackdd mentions above if you say you live off savings (whether they come from pension or not) you should be able to get away with it. If you however have your pension transferred every month then that may be an issue.

[KittenKong]

Some people think that a dual-taxation treaty means that you cant be taxed here. It doesnt. The income tax sections of these treaties are designed to prevent you from being taxed twice, which would be unfair. So if you have paid tax on some income in another country that has a dual-taxation treaty with Thailand then Thailand should take that tax into account when it calculates your tax liability here.

Tax treaties may also include some specific references to particular types of income, and may indicate where they should be taxed initially, but that generally does not remove the possibility of Thailand taxing you on income received here. It just limits the amount. And if the tax here amounts to more than the tax paid elsewhere then you will normally be due to pay the difference here. In most cases Thai income tax is indeed higher than the tax you would normally pay in the West, especially for smaller incomes as the personal allowances in Thailand are very low.

As mentioned, Thailand has a specific get-out clause in that overseas income is only taxable here if it was earned in the same year as it was repatriated. This is the main reason why I live in Thailand and without that clause I would surely be long gone. The OP appears to have managed his payments incorrectly, and as such may be due to pay tax here. To avoid any liability here he should only be spending savings here, as mentioned.

[Kwasaki]

17 hours ago, 55Jay said:

The Thai Tax Office where I live raised the same question when I was summoned to their office after filing a bank interest tax refund request. 

 

I knew my country and Thailand had a tax treaty in place.  The Supervisor had to satisfy herself.  She returned after 15 minutes, said no problem, and told the clerk to proceed with my bank interest tax refund.

Good on ya, I would claim in back if it amounted to a reasonable amount.

I've been charged 36 baht recently on interest they can get it. 

[55Jay]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Good on ya, I would claim in back if it amounted to a reasonable amount.

I've been charged 36 baht recently on interest they can get it. 

Yeah, only done it once for a fixed account, 6 or 7,000 I think it was, so worth the effort and also to see how it all worked. 

 

Was able to manipulate the Krungsi MTD accounts to avoid taxes until last year.  I didn't file this year, about 1,000 something in interest tax.   Gotta help Prayuth pay for the submarines. 

[mogandave]

Yeah, only done it once for a fixed account, 6 or 7,000 I think it was, so worth the effort and also to see how it all worked. 
 
Was able to manipulate the Krungsi MTD accounts to avoid taxes until last year.  I didn't file this year, about 1,000 something in interest tax.   Gotta help Prayuth pay for the submarines. 

I would be careful about “avoiding” the interest taxes. I assume you’re talking closing and opening accounts. I know the banks will do this, but as I understand it, it’s not tax avoidance, it’s a tax dodge.

[55Jay]

Just now, mogandave said:

I would be careful about “avoiding” the interest taxes. I assume you’re talking closing and opening accounts. I know the banks will do this, but as I understand it, it’s not tax avoidance, it’s a tax dodge.
 

You're right, tempered by the fact I would qualify to get it all back by default anyway.  The dodge, at least from my perspective, was simply to avoid having to do a tax return, deal with bureaucracy, etc.  I doubt the Tax Man would see it that way.  LOL.

 

Moot point now, Krungsi rightly stopped facilitating the musical chairs routine last year.  Also bought my wife a house a few months ago, probably won't see 20k a year in interest on what's left on deposit, unless the rates go back up to where they used to be. 

[Mattd]

OP, roughly how much is your pension income in THB per year?

Are you married to a Thai, any children etc. ?

I can work out any liabilities you may have with the right info.

[mogandave]

You're right, tempered by the fact I would qualify to get it all back by default anyway.  The dodge, at least from my perspective, was simply to avoid having to do a tax return, deal with bureaucracy, etc.  I doubt the Tax Man would see it that way.  LOL.

 

Moot point now, Krungsi rightly stopped facilitating the musical chairs routine last year.  Also bought my wife a house a few months ago, probably won't see 20k a year in interest on what's left on deposit, unless the rates go back up to where they used to be. 

 

You bought a house to live in, not for your wife...

 

Hope it goes well, it did for us.

[Aforek]

19 hours ago, KittenKong said:

The OP appears to have managed his payments incorrectly, and as such may be due to pay tax here. To avoid any liability here he should only be spending savings here, as mentioned.

Don't understand what you mean, anyway I have nothing to pay

thanks for your responses and suggestions 

[RotBenz8888]

On 5/15/2018 at 5:10 PM, jackdd said:

There is also a law which says only income which is brought into Thailand in the year it's earned is taxable.

So if you receive the pension on a bank account in France and then transfer it to Thailand you can just say this are your savings and not your pension

To make it 100% safe you can gather your pension for a year on your bank account in France and then transfer everything the following year to Thailand

Do you have to transfer you money to a Thai bank? What if you keep your savings in your foreign bank account and bring the money to Thailand through ATM withdrawals?