Not following Junta plan could soon be a crime - for 20 years

[gk10002000]

Oh my, now isn't that a good one.  As if the coup or junta leaders ever followed the previous laws that were presumably in effect.

[sjaak327]

Oh my, now isn't that a good one.  As if the coup or junta leaders ever followed the previous laws that were presumably in effect.

Do as I say, not as I do. And some people are dumb enough to fall for it. Probably due to a disregard for the people living here...

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Tapatalk

[BobBKK]

19 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Thailand have never had a mature democracy. The number of coups since 1932 would indicate otherwise, as would the non existence of an independent, fair to all, unbiased robust justice system, complete with the necessary checks and balances which are enforced fairly, to all without any selectivity. A democracy isn't just about voting once every few years.

 

PTP and their opponents were in a headlong rush to get control. PTP contrived to get Thaksin an amnesty. First they cheated the parliamentary process, which they didn't have to as they had a majority lo! But they probably suspected the likely massive public outcry. Yingluck claimed all versions, and there were several, had been withdrawn. She lied. The one that benefited Thaksin hadn't been withdrawn when the senate voted against it. If PTP had kept power, either through not dissolving parliament or be gaining re-election then the bill would have returned to the lower house and been put into law, or re-introduced with a new mandate justification. That, together with the refusal to stop the attacks on protesters by their supporters was enough of an excuse for the coup, for which some had been itching.

 

The small group of people that vie for control and enjoy fabulous wealth included the  Shiniwattra family and the group that supports them as well as their opponents.

 

 

You don't think Prayut's 600m 'land sale' makes him 'fabulously wealthy'?  or Prawit's watches?  we are bored with this

'It's the Shins, it's the Shins'.

 

They have not been in power for FOUR YEARS aim your criticism at those in power NOW. And this thread is not about:

 

Thaksin

PTP

or Yingluck 

 

It is about this Junta trying to keep power for 20 more years by proxy. Do try to stay on track please.

[robblok]

6 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

Oh please I live in the Netherlands. There is a difference between voluntarily honoring plans put in by previous governments and being forced to do so by law.

Let alone a 20 year road map, there is no such thing there, water management isn't even the responsibility of the government, we have separate branch of local government handling this, and they don't use plans 20 years old.

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Tapatalk
 

Yes there is a difference between the 2 Sjaak, but the problem is that here they don't honor stuff like that so long term planning is impossible. Do you think the "delta werken" were constructed in the time of 1 government ? I am sure you get my point. 

 

In Thailand they start over with each new government, i feel that is a waste of resources and time. I guess you don't care about stuff like this because you don't actually live here. I care about it because I have actually been flooded and would like that danger to be less. So yea I have no problems with them putting something like that in a 20 year plan and finally do something instead of scrapping other peoples plant pocketing corruption money and not doing a thing because it last more then 4 years.

 

[manhood]

The Junta wants to keep their footprints on everything for ever.

So why you need elections?? Thats good for nothing as democracy wont come back at all!

 

Poor people of this country!!!!!!!!!

[sjaak327]

Yes there is a difference between the 2 Sjaak, but the problem is that here they don't honor stuff like that so long term planning is impossible. Do you think the "delta werken" were constructed in the time of 1 government ? I am sure you get my point. 

 

In Thailand they start over with each new government, i feel that is a waste of resources and time. I guess you don't care about stuff like this because you don't actually live here. I care about it because I have actually been flooded and would like that danger to be less. So yea I have no problems with them putting something like that in a 20 year plan and finally do something instead of scrapping other peoples plant pocketing corruption money and not doing a thing because it last more then 4 years.

 

But you do not get what I am trying to tell you. They are not talking about something like the delta werken, that was a project initiated by one government and continued by subsequent governments. No sane government would throw away such investments, unless it became unfeasible to continue.

 

We are talking about a set of rules shoved down future governments by an unelected bunch of criminals. How someone could realistically compare the two us beyond me..

 

As to being affected, when the floods hit in 2011 it directly affected me, because I happened to be there at the time. I think time for realism is needed, they cannot structurally remedy the problem, they lack the funds to do so. The last thing that is needed is some master plan, drafted by people that don't know their ass from their elbow.

 

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[robblok]

3 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

But you do not get what I am trying to tell you. They are not talking about something like the delta werken, that was a project initiated by one government and continued by subsequent governments. No sane government would throw away such investments, unless it became unfeasible to continue.

 

We are talking about a set of rules shoved down future governments by an unelected bunch of criminals. How someone could realistically compare the two us beyond me..

 

As to being affected, when the floods hit in 2011 it directly affected me, because I happened to be there at the time. I think time for realism is needed, they cannot structurally remedy the problem, they lack the funds to do so. The last thing that is needed is some master plan, drafted by people that don't know their ass from their elbow.

 

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Tapatalk

 

 

 

You don't get what I am saying too. I disagree with the 20 year plan but for stuf like water works it would be great just like in The Netherlands government after government went on with the Delta werken. Here that just does not happen so cementing it in law would be a good thing.

 

Im pissed with both YL and Prayut for not doing anything (ok some things have been done but nothing substantial) after the 2011 floods. All they seem to do is trash plans from the previous government and just when theirs are ready to be implemented a  new goverment comes into power and will trash them again so they can have their friends do the work. So the way it is done now just does not work. 

[sjaak327]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

You don't get what I am saying too. I disagree with the 20 year plan but for stuf like water works it would be great just like in The Netherlands government after government went on with the Delta werken. Here that just does not happen so cementing it in law would be a good thing.

 

Im pissed with both YL and Prayut for not doing anything (ok some things have been done but nothing substantial) after the 2011 floods. All they seem to do is trash plans from the previous government and just when theirs are ready to be implemented a  new goverment comes into power and will trash them again so they can have their friends do the work. So the way it is done now just does not work. 

In the Netherlands the delta werken were not cemented in laws, as that would really be unacceptable in a democracy. They were continued because it made sense to do so, not because they were cemented by laws. 

 

 

[robblok]

Just now, sjaak327 said:

In the Netherlands the delta werken were not cemented in laws, as that would really be unacceptable in a democracy. They were continued because it made sense to do so, not because they were cemented by laws. 

 

 

You don't get it do you.. in the Netherlands you got sensible people (or at least more then here). Here they just scrap projects because they want to source them out again and then they get their bribes. That is how it works here I guess you lived here so you know this is true.

 

For situations like that 20 years (or make it 10 years) plans would work, now 7 years has passed and nothing has been done. I personally think that if there wont be a junta goverment (id rather there is not). They will scrap the junta flooding plans .. make their own plans get their own bribes (that is what its about) and still nothing will be done. Next goverment will scrap it again (unless the same party wins) and nothing is done. That is the reality of Thailand.

 

Its nice to say in the Netherlands it works without laws... but this is not the Netherlands and here things work differently so for water management at least 10 or 20 year plans would work. I disagree about all the stuff he put in there but for large infrastructure plans there should be long term planning. 

[sjaak327]

You don't get it do you.. in the Netherlands you got sensible people (or at least more then here). Here they just scrap projects because they want to source them out again and then they get their bribes. That is how it works here I guess you lived here so you know this is true.

 

For situations like that 20 years (or make it 10 years) plans would work, now 7 years has passed and nothing has been done. I personally think that if there wont be a junta goverment (id rather there is not). They will scrap the junta flooding plans .. make their own plans get their own bribes (that is what its about) and still nothing will be done. Next goverment will scrap it again (unless the same party wins) and nothing is done. That is the reality of Thailand.

 

Its nice to say in the Netherlands it works without laws... but this is not the Netherlands and here things work differently so for water management at least 10 or 20 year plans would work. I disagree about all the stuff he put in there but for large infrastructure plans there should be long term planning. 

I do get it, what you are claiming is not true, even the Thai are sensible. No government throws out big investment, just so they can do it all over again for a bribe here or there.

 

That does not fly, yes even in Thailand. You seem to have a very low opinion of the country you choose to live in. I have said it to you before, it is like you are living in some ivory tower.

 

In any case, the whole argument started with the notion that 20 year plans or even 10 year plans do not make sense, as no one can look that far ahead. Governments should be free to introduce policies they see fit, based on present day parameters, not on circumstances a decade or two ago. Even the deltawerken have been adjusted where it made sense.

 

What you completely leave unaddressed is who should force these plans to future governments, most certainly not the current incompetent bunch of criminals. Not on any topic, it will turn out disastrous, not to mention absolutly undemocratic and even with the current charter, unconstitutional.

 

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[robblok]

4 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

I do get it, what you are claiming is not true, even the Thai are sensible. No government throws out big investment, just so they can do it all over again for a bribe here or there.

 

That does not fly, yes even in Thailand. You seem to have a very low opinion of the country you choose to live in. I have said it to you before, it is like you are living in some ivory tower.

 

In any case, the whole argument started with the notion that 20 year plans or even 10 year plans do not make sense, as no one can look that far ahead. Governments should be free to introduce policies they see fit, based on present day parameters, not on circumstances a decade or two ago. Even the deltawerken have been adjusted where it made sense.

 

What you completely leave unaddressed is who should force these plans to future governments, most certainly not the current incompetent bunch of criminals. Not on any topic, it will turn out disastrous, not to mention absolutly undemocratic and even with the current charter, unconstitutional.

 

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Its not true you say... then tell me why has nothing major been done since 2011 for the flooding. Prayut cancelled YL her plans and made his own plans and I am sure it will happen again with a new government. I would say its pretty solid evidence of my points. You see it often that previous goverment change plans like for instance the buses that should be driving in BKK. I can look for more examples but often a new government cancels the deals of the old, I can only imagine its for bribe opportunities. 

 

Sjaak, I already agreed that the 20 year plans don't make sense for many things, I keep my opinion that they do make sense for infrastructure and other long term things. I don't have a low opinion of the country i live in I have a low opinion of people at the top, be they PTP or junta or democrats. 

 

I don't care if its undemocratic or unconstitutional if it solves the countries water problems it would have been worth it. Something has to change to break the cycle of binning plans of previous governments. You and I both know its mostly about the new government wanting a cut too (this happens at every government change unless the old power stays in power). If you don't see that how it now works it does not work you have been gone too long. All i want is some good water management with some real long term solutions, something that could have been done in the 7 years that have passed. 

[chainarong]

All they have to do if the climate is right is change the legislation and by climate I do mean how much the military is on the nose, not the rainy season/

[Odysseus123]

Myanmar, Cambodia and Thailand.

 

The hive mind in form and substance.

 

 

[observer90210]

Ironic how sometimes those pointed as bad, are replaced by others who are worse.....