BTS to replace single-trip magnetic cards with smart Thin Cards

[utalkin2me]

Does it say what the smart thin cards do differently. I missed it. 

 

My main qualms with the bts (i live ten steps from it and use it once every two months): taxis are usually the same price with two people, and you get dropped off and picked up at the front door. i do jot like the fact that i have to pay ridiculously more money to exit at a stop on my way and get back on. why cant a trip from x to y, even if you stop in the middle, just be the same price? is that what the new ticket solves? as it stands, i cant stop anywhere in between my origin and destination without having to pay a heafty fee. this is a shame to me. i am sure local businesses like restaurants etc would agree. I know bts group arent hurting but i feel its better for everyone to let people stop along the way without being charged more. just input not really complaining. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by utalkin2me

[unblocktheplanet]

It appears the greed factor at BTS (follow the money!)--the lone holdout--prevents them making Mangmoom work for ALL BKK's public transit. Might that have to do with foreign oldsters scamming our purple Rabbits???

[Argus Tuft]

 

[StayinThailand2much]

22 hours ago, Argus Tuft said:

 

What do you expect from a speed-train system that cannot even come up with one tariff for the whole system, rather than trips here and 15 baht extra there. - Will Bangkok ever manage to come up with something like the Octopus Card in HK, I wonder...

Edited June 18, 2018 by StayinThailand2much

[MaxLee]

On 6/16/2018 at 8:55 AM, KhunBENQ said:

Been in Bangkok two days.

After yesterdays experience it is really absurd to read what problems they deal with adding to the existing chaos.

Yesterday, 8 PM at Asok:

(and from what others say this is routine, took me 4 trains passing to get there)

 

Nothing new anymore.  And it's only getting worst, when the new stations open...... 

[Crossy]

On 6/17/2018 at 6:11 PM, utalkin2me said:

Does it say what the smart thin cards do differently. I missed it. 

For the passenger, not a lot apart from the tickets working in any orientation, it's replacing 1960's technology with something rather more modern.

 

Should reduce the maintenance required and the tickets last longer than the current magstripe ones. The major issue is that nobody is making new magstripe equipment these days and with all the upcoming lines it was time to change.

 

[Crossy]

A word to the wise.

 

The new system goes partially live tomorrow, complete removal of the magnetic tickets by December when the section past E15 (Samrong) goes live.

 

Get your Rabbit card now.

 

[Argus Tuft]

Thanks Crossy

Good to know!

[samsensam]

 

i've just been travelling round europe, cities now usually have one travel card for all public transport; convenient and easy, and many cities now have trams. bangkok just seems so far behind the curve when it comes to public transport.

[Argus Tuft]

1 minute ago, samsensam said:

 

i've just been travelling round europe, cities now usually have one travel card for all public transport; convenient and easy, and many cities now have trams. bangkok just seems so far behind the curve when it comes to public transport.

Not just Europe - look at Hong Kong and Kuala Lumpur to see how it can be done as well

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

i've just been travelling round europe, cities now usually have one travel card for all public transport; convenient and easy, and many cities now have trams. bangkok just seems so far behind the curve when it comes to public transport.

It's not for want of trying, but those with vested-interests and government meddling have successfully scuppered all attempts so far. Even the Mangmoom card, launched with much fanfare earlier this year isn't quite what it seems on the outside.

 

Rabbit is the most useful card, but you'll still need a separate card for the MRT.

 

[utalkin2me]

Will old rabbit cards be non functional? 

 

I have one that i never use, but just curious.

Edited September 8, 2018 by utalkin2me

[Nit Noi]

I've noticed they've started designating at least one fare gate at every exit as being for Rabbit card holders only.  Will this be usable with the new RFID day-trip cards?  Predictably, there's much confusion from tourists trying to queue for the gate who either didn't notice, can't see, or don't understand the index card-sized sign on a poll designating it a Rabbit card only lane.

[Crossy]

35 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

Will old rabbit cards be non functional? 

Rabbit cards are not affected, although if you've not used it for a long time it may have expired and you will need to visit the ticket office.

 

14 minutes ago, Nit Noi said:

I've noticed they've started designating at least one fare gate at every exit as being for Rabbit card holders only.  Will this be usable with the new RFID day-trip cards?  Predictably, there's much confusion from tourists trying to queue for the gate who either didn't notice, can't see, or don't understand the index card-sized sign on a poll designating it a Rabbit card only lane.

Yes, the gates which have newly been designated as "Rabbit only" are for use with the new cards. Tap the card on the way in, insert in the slot on the way out.

 

It's unfortunate but during the change-over period people will get confused, the signage isn't wonderful (not my job), there will be queues.

 

Once the job is done we should be good for another 20 years ?

 

The new cards (and Rabbit) will also work seemlessly on the Pink and Yellow lines ?

 

 

[CLW]

For the passenger, not a lot apart from the tickets working in any orientation, it's replacing 1960's technology with something rather more modern.
 
Should reduce the maintenance required and the tickets last longer than the current magstripe ones. The major issue is that nobody is making new magstripe equipment these days and with all the upcoming lines it was time to change.
 

You say that the old system was magnetic. Just curious, what is the new technology? Is it something with RFID?

I noticed another thing, some time ago there was a trial at some BTS station with one open gate for contactless entry.
Did the BTS continue and further expand this system?

From what I've seen during some travel around the globe is that gate entry system are widely outdated and have been replaced by open gates to facilitate more passengers.
I guess with the advanced technology of CCTV and face recognition it is no longer a problem to detect non-payers.

[CLW]

Call me a pessimist but it could end up in a big chaos and even longer queues.
We shall see...

[Nit Noi]

Oh it's going to be a cluster.  I just got off at Thong Lor and their signs appear to be the opposite of the ones at Asoke - indicating which lanes you CAN use a magstripe card as opposed to the one at Asoke I saw that indicated which lane you CAN'T.  All of which are in small print and vague English.  If I live here and have to stare at it for a bit to figure it out, expect hordes of tourists at Siam and Asoke to be clogging the gates for the next couple weeks.

 

Also - are they retrofitting the card purchase machines or will we get more machines that actually accept paper money?

[Nyezhov]

30 minutes ago, Nit Noi said:

Oh it's going to be a cluster.  I just got off at Thong Lor and their signs appear to be the opposite of the ones at Asoke - indicating which lanes you CAN use a magstripe card as opposed to the one at Asoke I saw that indicated which lane you CAN'T.  All of which are in small print and vague English.  If I live here and have to stare at it for a bit to figure it out, expect hordes of tourists at Siam and Asoke to be clogging the gates for the next couple weeks.

 

Also - are they retrofitting the card purchase machines or will we get more machines that actually accept paper money?

looks like its time to ride past those stations

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, CLW said:

Call me a pessimist but it could end up in a big chaos and even longer queues.
We shall see...

Nah, it's all going to be perfect, not.

Sadly, there really is no easy and hassle-free method to do a fundamental upgrade to the AFC on a working railway. An awful lot of thought has gone in to how to maximise minimise inconvenience to the passenger.

 

43 minutes ago, Nit Noi said:

Oh it's going to be a cluster.  I just got off at Thong Lor and their signs appear to be the opposite of the ones at Asoke - indicating which lanes you CAN use a magstripe card as opposed to the one at Asoke I saw that indicated which lane you CAN'T.  All of which are in small print and vague English.  If I live here and have to stare at it for a bit to figure it out, expect hordes of tourists at Siam and Asoke to be clogging the gates for the next couple weeks.

 

Also - are they retrofitting the card purchase machines or will we get more machines that actually accept paper money?

Not guilty on the signage, it was all done and dusted before anyone, er, sensible, got to see it.

 

The existing small machines are being replaced by similar, but updated, machines, yes they still only take coins, at least they accept the 2 Baht now and they have a nice point-at-the-map interface. BTS did look into adding a note acceptor but there just isn't room in the form-factor (and no room in the rooms for bigger machines). More machines that do accept notes are being added and the existing ones upgraded so you can re-charge your Rabbit card at the machine too.

 

2 hours ago, CLW said:

You say that the old system was magnetic. Just curious, what is the new technology? Is it something with RFID?

Yes, it's ISO14443A MiFare UL-C and DESfire (effectively RFID).

[Nit Noi]

Any idea what the current percentage is of people who ride with a Rabbit card vs. day trip card and what percent of day trip cards don't get used the day of purchase?  Is there a hard cutoff when magstripe cards will no longer be accepted?

[CLW]

and the existing ones upgraded so you can re-charge your Rabbit card at the machine too.

Finally. I thought they would never implement card charging machines.
Time for the BEM / MRTA to implement these as well. Together with possibility to pay with cards.

[Crossy]

Anyone have "real passenger" reports from yesterday (or today). 

 

The engineering staff are reporting "no massive problems, mostly passenger confusion" but I can guarantee that they are painting a rosy picture.

 

The kit is new so I expect issues of course.

 

[Crossy]

22 hours ago, Nit Noi said:

Any idea what the current percentage is of people who ride with a Rabbit card vs. day trip card and what percent of day trip cards don't get used the day of purchase?  Is there a hard cutoff when magstripe cards will no longer be accepted?

Current stored-value usage is a dissappointing 50-60%, no real surprise as there's no incentive (discount) when using a Rabbit card. Compare with Hong Kong, Singapore and London where stored-value use is approaching 100%.

 

Single-ride tickets are valid only on the day of issue, so if you don't use it on the day of purchase you lose the ride (and BTS lose the ticket).

 

Magstripe will stop working when the section past Samrong opens, but the plan is to gradually increase the amount of new tickets and reduce the number of mag stripes in use. Extension opening schedule is December this year.

 

[CLW]

Current stored-value usage is a dissappointing 50-60%, no real surprise as there's no incentive (discount) when using a Rabbit card. Compare with Hong Kong, Singapore and London where stored-value use is approaching 100%.
 
Single-ride tickets are valid only on the day of issue, so if you don't use it on the day of purchase you lose the ride (and BTS lose the ticket).
 
Magstripe will stop working when the section past Samrong opens, but the plan is to gradually increase the amount of new tickets and reduce the number of mag stripes in use. Extension opening schedule is December this year.
 

Probably some consultant has come up with the idea of a discount for stored card already.
Oh wait, big double no go.
They would have listen to him AND losing money.
No way this will be implemented.
Sad that the most Thai managed companies are so narrow minded...

[Nit Noi]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Anyone have "real passenger" reports from yesterday (or today). 

 

The engineering staff are reporting "no massive problems, mostly passenger confusion" but I can guarantee that they are painting a rosy picture.

 

The kit is new so I expect issues of course.

 

 

No major queues seen thus far.  There is definitely passenger confusion but with it being a weekend and all I suppose the real test will be the rush hour crowds tomorrow.

 

I still have no idea what kind of card I'm supposed to have to use the lane indicated by the sign.

[utalkin2me]

I would definitely fill up and even shop more if the cards gave a discount. Funny how that works, everyone wins. 

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Nit Noi said:

I still have no idea what kind of card I'm supposed to have to use the lane indicated by the sign.

Nope, neither have I.

 

Like I noted earlier, the signage is not my job ?

 

[Nit Noi]

3 hours ago, CLW said:

Probably some consultant has come up with the idea of a discount for stored card already.
Oh wait, big double no go.
They would have listen to him AND losing money.
No way this will be implemented.
Sad that the most Thai managed companies are so narrow minded...

 

Thais don't seem to value time as much as other cultures.  Apparently years of double queuing to get change and purchase a card isn't worth the 100 baht to them.

[utalkin2me]

2 minutes ago, Nit Noi said:

 

Thais don't seem to value time as much as other cultures.  Apparently years of double queuing to get change and purchase a card isn't worth the 100 baht to them.

Is that how much a rabbit card is? 

 

I used to use the rabbit card when i worked in thailand and it was a screaming deal. I know you guys know, bts trips are like 12 baht. 

 

I actually feel like the bts is unreasonably expensive now. Maybe i am nuts. It just is a lot easier to get a taxi at the same cost more or less, for two people, and i live right on a bts station too!

[CLW]

 
Thais don't seem to value time as much as other cultures.  Apparently years of double queuing to get change and purchase a card isn't worth the 100 baht to them.

Agree with that.
Another case, I would go mental if I have to be stuck in car traffic two hours to get to work.
Either start work earlier or move closer to work.
But most Thais just seem to not care about it....