Big changes in Thailand for farangs

[snowgard]

41 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

No.

And things have changed a lot over the past 2 years so your input is totally irrelevant.

Can you tell me exactly what changed in the last two years?
The same comments run here now for years. Some never had problems to open a bank account, others never become one.

[Pilotman]

I Have no idea why anyone from outside LOS would want to have a Thai bank account , or give them any of your money.  I manage very well with an off shore bank account that stays well clear of Thailand and its out of date banking system.  Don't pander to them.  In the modern global World they are well behind the drag curve and nobody needs to be tied to them.  However, if it's to fulfil extension requirements, well that is a problem and I guess that if you can't provide an income Embassy letter then you are screwed.

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, prism said:

We registered our marriage at amphoe Bangrak since we had to pick up our documents from the MFA in Bangkok. We live in Chiang Mai. It was a pleasant experience, no extra money involved and the marriage certificate came in a special hardcover folder.  

Reports I read last year indicated Bang Rak had become more difficult.  I am guessing this was 2+ years ago, before they tightened up?  Or are they more friendly, again now?

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, rosst said:

I am not sure if this is true but similar experiences led me to the Philippines. Four years now. 

I was in Manila for 4 years before moving to Thailand.

 

The banking system there was terrible, it makes the Thais look professional.

[ajarnmarc]

On 6/18/2018 at 6:29 PM, pr9spk said:

I never offered any pocket money. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong?

NOOOOOO! Don't offer any snack money, which is what the local refer to it as. 

This is why they act like it's difficult, they hope for you to offer them some pocket money...

I used to train the bank staff, I know how they like to think.

They once informed me that every ATM they get us to purchase, 

they make 150 bht off of it. This was back when the ATM cards were just 300 bht, 

which is still very expensive to developed countries fee's. 

So the bank staff are already seasoned on how to pull money out of our pockets, 

and they do it like a true pro; they don't need us offering them extra money to do their job.

I just opened an account @ Khung Thai bank, last month, and all I needed was the recent stamp of entry in my passport, and a copy of the front page of my passport. 

Nothing difficult about it. 

Yes it took some time for them to setup my online access and have me sign all the docs, 

but it wasn't anything major, and it certainly wasn't a mountain of paperwork either.

Maybe 10 pages total, maybe...

We all know that Thailand loves their paperwork...

 

So the moral of this story is Never offer staff money to do their job, 

you are only making it worse for the next foreigner that comes across their greedy path.

It's like feeding an animal, no pun intended, but once you feed their greed, 

they remember how to get more the next time around, 

and who to get it from.

Your misses doesn't want you to prevail, as she would like you to put the money in her name, 

with you holding haha the ATM card.

Once things go south, she can easily reclaim that ATM card, 

and be on her way, and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. 

As the law will be on her side all day long... since the account is in her name.

[puchooay]

4 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I Have no idea why anyone from outside LOS would want to have a Thai bank account , or give them any of your money.  I manage very well with an off shore bank account that stays well clear of Thailand and its out of date banking system.  Don't pander to them.  In the modern global World they are well behind the drag curve and nobody needs to be tied to them.  However, if it's to fulfil extension requirements, well that is a problem and I guess that if you can't provide an income Embassy letter then you are screwed.

So....you live in Thailand and never use Thai banks? 

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, puchooay said:

I think the doom and gloomers on here, that think the Thai authorities change rules for the fun of it and just to p*&s people off, are only looking at one side of the story.

 

Many, if not most, of the changes follow a story of a scam. People getting married just for a visa, people allegedly working to get a visa, bank account and ATM scams, etc etc. 

 

Every action has a reaction.

The other side of your other side of the story on the immigration and amphoe/marriage aspect, is:

The people who supposedly care about visa-fraud, and marriage-fraud profit directly from visa-fraud and marriage-fraud.  They profit more after each so-called "crackdown."  Therefore, it is not really hard to see what the driving force of the changes actually is, and it isn't some "sincere concern" about law and order.

 

As to bank and atm fraud, I am not aware that farangs from Western countries are involved in this to a significant extent.  I suspect the bank-difficulties stem, to a great extent, from the trouble some of our foreign-governments make for those banks (reporting requirements and such).

[Brayka]

Recently opened a bank account with Kasikorn Hua Hin. Only passport needed and 10 minutes later...readdy! No problem...

[55Jay]

40 minutes ago, FaFaHead said:

After reading many posts on this subject I have to say it has raised some concerns about moving to Chiang Mai in November. I am retired and my wife is a pharmacist currently here in the states. She plans on teaching English at a private school after we settle in. I had no idea it was this treacherous of a process to open a bank account. I am fully aware of the Thai way, etc., but there seems to be an anti-faring undercurrent that doesn’t quite give us a warm and fuzzy feeling when it comes to living in Thailand. I know there are agencies I have come across online that are supposed to take care of these matters with you for a fee, but now I wonder about their efficacy. Seems like this could be an expensive process even using one of them to secure visas and bank accounts and all the rest that they advertise. The average fee for their services is around $500.00 but wonder now how much that will increase with this mounting resistance to Farangs. I’m starting to wonder if our dream of retiring in Thailand could turn into a nightmare after a while. This is very disappointing to say the least. 

The truth about most things typically lies in the middle, so I would guard against getting too carried away by cynicism and conflated theories on the internet.  Or, by the same token, bubbly opinions from the overly enthusiastic with the good old "rose tinted glasses".   And then the ever-present possibility of trolls feeding the anxiety monster from time to time.

 

Coming over in a retirement category is going to be more straight forward than a  37 year old wading into the Thai government system for the first time, and trying to get a bank account on a Tourist Visa - the latter is problematic from the get go.

 

Good for him though, he kept at it and got one anyway, with what sounds like a little Thai home town wink wink, and dangling the prospect of a big deposit in front of a bank employee.  That's the thing about Thailand's often silly, unprofessional dysfunction.  Sometimes it works in your favor!  ?

[puchooay]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The other side of your other side of the story on the immigration and amphoe/marriage aspect, is:

The people who supposedly care about visa-fraud, and marriage-fraud profit directly from visa-fraud and marriage-fraud.  They profit more after each so-called "crackdown."  Therefore, it is not really hard to see what the driving force of the changes actually is, and it isn't some "sincere concern" about law and order.

 

As to bank and atm fraud, I am not aware that farangs from Western countries are involved in this to a significant extent.  I suspect the bank-difficulties stem, to a great extent, from the trouble some of our foreign-governments make for those banks (reporting requirements and such).

Not so. There have been many stories over the years of Thai ladies happily marrying expats and happily playing along at immigration so that the expat can stay here. Hence the need now for extra documentation. There was a time that travelers would come and get a teaching job. Get and extension of stay and then leave the job and travel around Thailand. Most cases un be known to the officials.

 

If you have never heard of banking scams and ATM scams, money laundering and the likes, involving foreigners here in Thailand then I guess you don't spend much time keeping up with the news.

[Pilotman]

39 minutes ago, puchooay said:

So....you live in Thailand and never use Thai banks? 

Only their ATMs 

[wolf81]

21 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Only their ATMs 

Then you probably pay a lot extra for every transaction (200 Baht or more?). And then there is probably an interbank exchange rate used to convert the money. In the end it might cost you a lot of money without you realising it, unless you've found some ways to reduce these costs?

 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, snowgard said:

Can you tell me exactly what changed in the last two years?
The same comments run here now for years. Some never had problems to open a bank account, others never become one.

Well, I guess the BS has not changed then.

Sorry, I know something about the banking system here and those who say: "I walked in with a passport and got an account" are mostly false.  There is something missing and those reports are misleading.

Here is my question on this that is never answered??

If in fact you can do that I would like to know the Bank, branch, location and name of contact and details on how that account was opened...

There have been many threads on this and I do not think one person has fully answered this question.

 

I guess it is some special secret??.. Funny actually.  Hey, if they want and are taking business with minimal requirements, then I am sure they want more business. So let's hear it.

 

So, why not let everyone know the full details of your so called accounts.

Not, 2,3,5 years ago.  Or, I heard, blah blah.

Something recent.

Looking forward to it..

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by bkk6060

[SteveK]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

I Have no idea why anyone from outside LOS would want to have a Thai bank account , or give them any of your money.  I manage very well with an off shore bank account that stays well clear of Thailand and its out of date banking system.  Don't pander to them.  In the modern global World they are well behind the drag curve and nobody needs to be tied to them.  However, if it's to fulfil extension requirements, well that is a problem and I guess that if you can't provide an income Embassy letter then you are screwed.

 

Well here are two very good reasons:

 

1. If you want to obtain a Thai marriage visa at any point in your life, you need to show 400000 baht on deposit in a Thai bank in your name for a period of two months. Otherwise you cannot get the visa, which may or may not be a pretty big thing.

 

2. Over the last year, I have been withdrawing from Thai banks with my UK HSBC debit card. Lets look at the costs, from my last withdrawal: 220 baht at Thai ATM. Transaction fees from HSBC of 13.10 pounds. And a transaction rate of 0.6 Baht lower than quoted on the online banking of my lovely new Krung Sri account. Last time I withdrew 15000 baht so this came to very roughly, 4.93 + 13.10 + 5.17 = an incredible 23.20 pounds per ATM withdrawal. This is now reduced to a 25 baht out of province fee. Plus HSBC charge me less than a beer to transfer from UK to Thailand as I have a higher level account ((I transferred a million, so I could keep the 400000 at all times and have 600000 for living costs and any further visas costs and wedding party etc, should last me a year).

 

I got a call from a friendly chap at Krung Sri about why I was transferring so much, he understood my explanation immediately and I had the money from the UK in under 24 hours.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by pr9spk

[The Deerhunter]

22 hours ago, markaoffy said:

Gotta be crazy transferring 17 million baht to Thai bank account! You’ll struggle to get that out the country try if you ever need to


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

If you get the bureaucracy sorted out, ONLY bring money over as needed.  Any Westerner to any Asian or African country is always safer to keep his bulk funds back home

[Pilotman]

9 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

Then you probably pay a lot extra for every transaction (200 Baht or more?). And then there is probably an interbank exchange rate used to convert the money. In the end it might cost you a lot of money without you realising it, unless you've found some ways to reduce these costs?

 

I have and it doesn't 

[Maradona 10]

Oooohh 17 million baht eh, ooohh, look at me everyone.

 

I never have problems getting an acc or getting married (unfortunately)

 

Diego 10

[SteveK]

As mentioned before, on this thread, I only mentioned the 17 million baht to speed things up. I still have to pay back the remaining mortagage so it isn't that much. I am am NOT transferring that much! Read the thread.

[SteveK]

3 minutes ago, Maradona 10 said:

I never have problems getting an acc or getting married (unfortunately)

 

 

Another one.

[Pilotman]

6 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

 

Well here are two very good reasons:

 

1. If you want to obtain a Thai marriage visa at any point in your life, you need to show 400000 baht on deposit in a Thai bank in your name for a period of two months. Otherwise you cannot get the visa, which may or may not be a pretty big thing.

 

2. Over the last year, I have been withdrawing from Thai banks with my UK HSBC debit card. Lets look at the costs, from my last withdrawal: 220 baht at Thai ATM. Transaction fees from HSBC of 13.10 pounds. And a transaction rate of 0.6 Baht lower than quoted on the online banking of my lovely new Krung Sri account. Last time I withdrew 15000 baht so this came to very roughly, 4.93 + 13.10 + 5.17 = an incredible 23.20 pounds per ATM withdrawal. This is now reduced to a 25 baht out of province fee. Plus HSBC charge me less than a beer to transfer from UK to Thailand as I have a higher level account.

1. you don't need to show any financial information when you first obtain a Non O  Visa on marriage to a Thai  from the UK.  You only need to show the finance when you apply for a extension based upon marriage or retirement.   

 

2. The accounts I hold  are not with a UK bank.  Yes I am subject to some  ATM and exchange rate charges,  but I am prepared to pay what I pay to keep flexibility in my funds, protection of them  and my tax advantages.  Its worth it for me, but not for everyone and it means I avoid  financial exposure in Thailand as much as possible .  

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

1. you don't need to show any financial information when you first obtain a Non O  Visa on marriage to a Thai  from the UK.  You only need to show the finance when you apply for a extension based upon marriage or retirement.   

 

2. The accounts I hold  are not with a UK bank.  Yes I am subject to some  ATM and exchange rate charges,  but I am prepared to pay what I pay to keep flexibility in my funds, protection of them  and my tax advantages.  Its worth it for me, but not for everyone and it means I avoid  financial exposure in Thailand as much as possible .  

I didn't say anything about a non-O. I want the extension of stay based on marriage, so I need the account, as I am sure others do too.

 

Also, my bank is in the UK, as I am sure others are. The charges are very high. You are probably in the minority so your opinions are not relevant to this thread.

Edited June 19, 2018 by pr9spk

[duanebigsby]

3 hours ago, FaFaHead said:

After reading many posts on this subject I have to say it has raised some concerns about moving to Chiang Mai in November. I am retired and my wife is a pharmacist currently here in the states. She plans on teaching English at a private school after we settle in. I had no idea it was this treacherous of a process to open a bank account. I am fully aware of the Thai way, etc., but there seems to be an anti-faring undercurrent that doesn’t quite give us a warm and fuzzy feeling when it comes to living in Thailand. I know there are agencies I have come across online that are supposed to take care of these matters with you for a fee, but now I wonder about their efficacy. Seems like this could be an expensive process even using one of them to secure visas and bank accounts and all the rest that they advertise. The average fee for their services is around $500.00 but wonder now how much that will increase with this mounting resistance to Farangs. I’m starting to wonder if our dream of retiring in Thailand could turn into a nightmare after a while. This is very disappointing to say the least. 

The OP is blowing this out of proportion. Many foreigners have minor problems like this and figure some way around it.

Thai friends is the best way. Op is suggesting anti foreigner sentiment is changing rapidly against us. No it isn't.

Your wife teaching would give her a work permit which is instant bank account access. You don't require an agent for any service in Thailand and most should be avoided unless you are a) wealthy or b)lazy.  It is a huge culture shock for many living here but for the most part highly enjoyable. Do not let threads like this discourage you.

[SteveK]

The OP was reporting his experience from yesterday, and what he was told by Thai people.

 

Not something from 15 years ago.

 

And yes, with a work permit or retirement visa, what happened to him will almost certainly not happen to you.

[duanebigsby]

3 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

The OP was reporting his experience from yesterday, and what he was told by Thai people.

 

Not something from 15 years ago.

 

And yes, with a work permit or retirement visa, what happened to him will almost certainly not happen to you.

The OP  had a bad experience as many have had. He's are blowing it up as if the Thai attitude towards foreigners has made this dramatic shift.

This bank account problem thing has been around for years. Everyone figured a way around it.

It doesn't mean Thais have dramatically changed their attitude to foreigners. It simply means OP , like many others on tourist visas, have had difficulty getting bank accounts. Everyone finds a way around it.

The OP has now scared a couple off retiring here because of the "sky is falling, they hate us" tone of the  OP.

 

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, bluesofa said:

4 hours ago, Colabamumbai said:

Bullshit about refusing to register marriages, but many Amphurs are sending the documents back to MFA to verify that they are legit, before issuing marriage certificate. My experience in Ban Lamung, waiting 20 days now.

Is that a recently new requirement now?

They gave me a runaround last year, saying I had to go back to Bangkok, to my embassy, to  "certify" that my passport was really my passport, and with an MFA stamp on that.  If the document was already certified by the MFA, then this is a redundant exercise.  I suppose this, and the affirmation of freedom to marry doc could be affected.

 

Even so, I verified an embassy-doc with the MFA by mail in a week (mail in both directions), so 20 days means they are playing a sick game.  In many cases, they know the applicant's permit-to-stay will run out, and these delays should force the farang to pay them off through an agent.  It sounds similar to what is done in Chang Mai for conversions.

 

There are "agents" who can get you married in a jiffy in Bang Lamung - I spoke to a few.  Want to bet this runaround with a redundant MFA-verification would not have happened with an agent's brown-envelope? 

 

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I am sure all of this is a result of the phony marriages which included  government workers 

No, it's about lining pockets with corruption money.  It is getting to the point where *not* paying off an official (many times the actual cost for the service) can make it difficult to impossible to get something legit done.  Yes, it's getting worse.

 

And to those who have rosy stories about getting married 2 or 3+ years ago hassle-free, you have no idea - it's not the same as it was, at many amphurs. 

[Ks45672]

On 6/18/2018 at 6:29 PM, pr9spk said:

I never offered any pocket money. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong?

It's still easy to open a bank account 

I have never paid any bribes to get them or shown anything but a passport 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, puchooay said:

There have been many stories over the years of Thai ladies happily marrying expats and happily playing along at immigration so that the expat can stay here. Hence the need now for extra documentation.

What does the documentation prove about a real vs fake marriage?  And, if that is the actual concern, why can an applicant just go to an agent, fork over 10K or so, and all those issues go away, if the officials actually cared about "fake marriages"? 

 

Isn't that what any "bad guy" would do - pay an agent?  That door is still wide open - it's the honest folks who have issues, now.

 

2 hours ago, puchooay said:

There was a time that travelers would come and get a teaching job. Get and extension of stay and then leave the job and travel around Thailand. Most cases un be known to the officials.

They still could, I assume.  Granted, they'll get it much faster and easier via an agent, for 10x the "actual fee," in many areas.  Of course, schools should be reporting their teacher has gone missing - but that would require cracking down on Thais - similar to ensuring Western teachers are given the documentation they need to get a proper visa, in the first place (which many report they cannot get their schools to provide - since no Thai will ever be held responsible).

 

2 hours ago, puchooay said:

If you have never heard of banking scams and ATM scams, money laundering and the likes, involving foreigners here in Thailand then I guess you don't spend much time keeping up with the news.

True, I could have missed the "news" about Western farangs being at the heart of a money laundering / ATM-scam epidemic in Thailand.  But, perhaps every odd-case is blown up as if it is a widespread problem, if there is an agenda at play. 

 

That's how "the news" works in my passport-country, anyhow - nothing to do with actual statistical increases/decreases in a type of crime, or if some reported "horrible thing" has been going on for years, or even worse in the past, etc.  Usually there is some law some vested-interest wants passed, so they have the media-assets they own push the propaganda to get it done.

 

If anything, such reporting here could be a symptom of "anti-farang attitude-shaping" at play - which some posters are worried about - and which a large country in the region would benefit from.  So far, most ordinary Thais I deal with are not buying it - so we are OK for now.

Edited June 19, 2018 by JackThompson

[Golden Triangle]

 I walked into my local Kasikorn branch over 7 year ago, dropped a couple 100k on the desk and said I wanted to open an account please, had my passport with retirement extension and my Thai drivers licence, 30 minutes later walked out with a new ATM card, Passbook and logon on details for online banking.

 

Far too much unnecessary drama on this thread.  

[lkv]

10 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

 I walked into my local Kasikorn branch over 7 year ago, dropped a couple 100k on the desk and said I wanted to open an account please, had my passport with retirement extension and my Thai drivers licence, 30 minutes later walked out with a new ATM card, Passbook and logon on details for online banking.

 

Far too much unnecessary drama on this thread.  

Awesome! Good news for the OP that is trying to open a bank account in 2018.

Edited June 19, 2018 by lkv

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

Awesome! Good news for the OP that is trying to open a bank account in 2018.

Yes, I got one with like 1000 Baht 4 or so years ago on a visa-exempt entry and my passport.  I told them I wanted to transfer money in from the USA - that's it.  My then-gf (now wife) was with me, and signed that she knew me (not a joint-acct).  I walked out awhile later with an ATM Card and Bank-Book.

 

BUT - Things have changed since the good old days.