BEVUP Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Absolutely rediculous Maybe there's been a drama It should of been a straight one way mission _ all the divers go in & grab a lad & back out Not enough tanks, you have to be kidding A tank lasts 1 hr by their calcs & what is actually the total time under water, certainly no where near the 5 hrs to get out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttrd Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Considering the information provided, the real issue appears to be the oxygen tanks, not the boys' condition and readiness. Indeed, they spent 10 hours (maybe still not finished) to replace the tanks. There must be a reason for this limited supply of oxygen tanks but I haven't heard about it yet... We then talk about a miscalculation of nearly 70% which should be totally out of question… Media just forward the information chosen for us - it doesnt mean that this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth - rather what can be convinient at the time… I am pretty convinced that they will not be able to rescue all the same way as for the 4 first. We must take into consideration that you have children down to 11 years and as well each of them are different so its normal that from 13 persons it would be just an percentage that normally are mentally prepared for something like this and after 2 weeks in darkness under such conditions which have reduced the healt/mental conditon accordingly then there will be less that will be able to conduct such a journey. I do not say this to have a negativ approach, - rather realistic, but i really hope I am wrong… As mentioned earlier, I am happy that Musk and his team very soon will have their equipment ready as there are a huge probability that it will be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, BEVUP said: Absolutely rediculous Maybe there's been a drama It should of been a straight one way mission _ all the divers go in & grab a lad & back out Not enough tanks, you have to be kidding A tank lasts 1 hr by their calcs & what is actually the total time under water, certainly no where near the 5 hrs to get out Very strange indeed... More time is spent resupplying oxygen tanks than rescuing the boys. Unfortunately the journalists, of all nationalities, are not used to think and ask questions, so they just gobble up this story of 10 hours to resupply oxygen tanks and bring it to the audience as if it was a minor and normal issue. Thus, if the organization remains the same as yesterday, we might see only 3 children emerge from the cave today, and the operation go on for another 2 days, while the rain keeps on falling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bung Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 The front line rescue divers needs to rest, they are using the best of the best for the extractions. Not enough to work 24 hour shifts. This was stated by the authorities if you read all about what's happening. Also, the used dive tanks need to be changed out. Even a partially used tank must be replaced with a full one. You have to realise this is a very methodical process with large safety margins. One rescue diver has already been lost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, ttrd said: We then talk about a miscalculation of nearly 70% which should be totally out of question… Media just forward the information chosen for us - it doesnt mean that this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth - rather what can be convinient at the time… I am pretty convinced that they will not be able to rescue all the same way as for the 4 first. We must take into consideration that you have children down to 11 years and as well each of them are different so its normal that from 13 persons it would be just an percentage that normally are mentally prepared for something like this and after 2 weeks in dark which have reduced the healt/mental conditon accordingly then there will be less that will be able to conduct such a journey. I do not say this to have a negativ approach, - rather realistic, but i really hope I am wrong… This could be an explanation for the delay, but then hiding behind the oxygen tanks story is only going to save a few hours and reality will have to be faced sooner rather than later. We certainly are all for prudence and against precipitation in dealing with such a tricky operation, but what if the weather refuses to play ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Very strange indeed... More time is spent resupplying oxygen tanks than rescuing the boys. Unfortunately the journalists, of all nationalities, are not used to think and ask questions, so they just gobble up this story of 10 hours to resupply oxygen tanks and bring it to the audience as if it was a minor and normal issue. Thus, if the organization remains the same as yesterday, we might see only 3 children emerge from the cave today, and the operation go on for another 2 days, while the rain keeps on falling... If you think about it the replacement tanks becomes an exponential process. If a diver needs a fresh tank to continue the journey, someone had to use a tank to go in and a tank to come out, just to leave that spare tank. two tanks in and twice as many tanks need to be left, and the tanks in and out etc etc. Then when the tanks are all empty the process begins again. It probably takes 20 tanks just to get all the tanks in place for one person to go all the way in and out, then the tanks are empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraday Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Very strange indeed... More time is spent resupplying oxygen tanks than rescuing the boys. Unfortunately the journalists, of all nationalities, are not used to think and ask questions, so they just gobble up this story of 10 hours to resupply oxygen tanks and bring it to the audience as if it was a minor and normal issue. Thus, if the organization remains the same as yesterday, we might see only 3 children emerge from the cave today, and the operation go on for another 2 days, while the rain keeps on falling... Are you there helping in CM? Nope. Didn't think so. Leave off with your musings: it's boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 All this about the front liners & oxygen tanks If they calculated 26 divers go in 6 hrs each (Pretty much trailing each other) & they rest & prep for 1 hr then over the next day MAX allowing gaps between extractions they all should of been out If they reckon there were bottles every 25 mtrs + what they could put on land between water stints there should of not been a problem If there is a problem may have to watch coach as he may have lost face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Off-topic, grammar nazi posts and replies removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bung Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, BEVUP said: All this about the front liners & oxygen tanks If they calculated 26 divers go in 6 hrs each (Pretty much trailing each other) & they rest & prep for 1 hr then over the next day MAX allowing gaps between extractions they all should of been out If they reckon there were bottles every 25 mtrs + what they could put on land between water stints there should of not been a problem If there is a problem may have to watch coach as he may have lost face Care to explain that last line? I guess the authorities are dragging this out then for maximum PR and drama right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigeone Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Removed as unfair speculation sorry admins ...but it is all worrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigeone Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Very strange indeed... More time is spent resupplying oxygen tanks than rescuing the boys. Unfortunately the journalists, of all nationalities, are not used to think and ask questions, so they just gobble up this story of 10 hours to resupply oxygen tanks and bring it to the audience as if it was a minor and normal issue. That might apply to Thai journalists but certainly not most internalitional ones and definately not British Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippybangkok Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 All this about the front liners & oxygen tanks If they calculated 26 divers go in 6 hrs each (Pretty much trailing each other) & they rest & prep for 1 hr then over the next day MAX allowing gaps between extractions they all should of been out If they reckon there were bottles every 25 mtrs + what they could put on land between water stints there should of not been a problem If there is a problem may have to watch coach as he may have lost faceIf anyone talks about "oxygen" tanks again I will slit my wrists. In diving, pure oxygen has only a few specialised use cases Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkski Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Can I ask if these tanks are oxygen or compressed air? Just an example if stupid reporters and editors with no real World experience. Doesn't it make sense to restock all the tanks while the dive team rests? And also these first 4 boys were chosen for a reason. Their medical evaluation and recovery in the first 12-18 hours probably is very helpful for the doctor inside to make further recommendations. This story will make a very good movie. I'm not second guessing the operation. I'm not worried about which countries divers are best at diving in caves. It's a small set of weirdos who enjoy something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, skippybangkok said: If anyone talks about "oxygen" tanks again I will slit my wrists. In diving, pure oxygen has only a few specialised use cases Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app It's overwhelmingly clear that everyone knows that they mean air bottles/tanks, whatever. Now don't slit your wrists. 1) we all know that you are an expert diver, 2) if you end up in hospital as a result then they may have to use oxygen, probably needed elsewhere, to help you breathe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippybangkok Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 .......,,,,,best of the best so such a major miscalculation of the oxygen needed doesnt fit in..........Of the same reason I am happy that Elon and his team soon will make the tailormade rescue equipment available so there are options for those who would have difficulties to perform the journey as the 4 first - with other words, the rescue operation is far from over and as you mentioned the time itself is the most critical factor...If you use the word Oxygen, it already disqualifies any comment. Elon might be rich and smart, but he is no cave diver. A 40cm x 2m tube would displace one metric ton of water..... That's going to require a lot of weight to keep it neutral. Let alone a lot of other issues ie getting around right bends, what to do with walkable patches Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttrd Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, skippybangkok said: If you use the word Oxygen, it already disqualifies any comment. Elon might be rich and smart, but he is no cave diver. A 40cm x 2m tube would displace one metric ton of water..... That's going to require a lot of weight to keep it neutral. Let alone a lot of other issues ie getting around right bends, what to do with walkable patches Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app The use of the term oxygen was made based on the term used in the article as a correct reference... Its not about his bank account and all about that Elon was not born in outer Space, but he is still the only one of us who has parked his car there which we can assume was a bigger challenge than the ongoing cave issue....… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResandePohm Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 19 hours ago, Brunolem said: Nothing will go wrong if there is no panic attack among the children. The pros have gone in and out of the cave hundreds of times by now, and probably know every centimeter of it. Against panic, there are very efficient medicines (bromazepam for example). On top of that, these children don't appear to be easily panicked, considering how they managed to survive 10 days in complete obscurity while keeping good spirits... "Nothing will go wrong" you say. It would be wise not to be over optimistic but show a lot of caution. One experienced diver has already lost his life in this rescue attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCC1701A Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 UPDATE at 8am: Nine ambulances are on standby on the road outside the cave. It is believed the rescue has re-started though it will be some hours before the first group emerges. https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1016134446594945024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I doubt there was a miscalculation on the number of air tanks needed, but as of now, we don't know whether the air quality where the boys are located as deteriorated to the point where they may have to supply unanticipated supplies of oxygen directly to them. This would also take a lot of time. If the air quality deteriorates, they will be in poor shape for the journey out. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Excuse my ignorance, but have all the boys been moved to a 'safer/different' location or are some still where they were originally found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResandePohm Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 17 hours ago, lincolnshire poacher said: Yes but why would they anticipate that all of a sudden they would need in excess of a dozen cave divers ? I'm probably in favour of military rule as much as you, but under the circumstances, the best cave divers from around the world will probably be doing a far better job than any trained by the Thai military people. Cave divers are one thing and have a specific contribution to the rescue. But bodies are required to do the donkey work i.e. carrying the air tanks, food, water medical supplies etc. up and into the cave. What better group of organized men than a military unit. c3a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, vogie said: Excuse my ignorance, but have all the boys been moved to a 'safer/different' location or are some still where they were originally found? Still at their original location... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Credo said: I doubt there was a miscalculation on the number of air tanks needed, but as of now, we don't know whether the air quality where the boys are located as deteriorated to the point where they may have to supply unanticipated supplies of oxygen directly to them. This would also take a lot of time. If the air quality deteriorates, they will be in poor shape for the journey out. Just a thought. Of course there has not been a miscalculation. They have finite divers who are capable of carrying out this rescue, those divers were operating for at least 12 hours yesterday in treacherous conditions, they need to rest and recuperate before doing it again. As was said right at the outset this is a 2-3 day job to bring them out. As far as i can see it is going so far exactly to plan, and log many it continue. So much BS on these pages by armchair experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, smutcakes said: Of course there has not been a miscalculation. They have finite divers who are capable of carrying out this rescue, those divers were operating for at least 12 hours yesterday in treacherous conditions, they need to rest and recuperate before doing it again. As was said right at the outset this is a 2-3 day job to bring them out. As far as i can see it is going so far exactly to plan, and log many it continue. So much BS on these pages by armchair experts. Nuff said and well said! Fifa mtf mafia trying to coop the whole thing! The last thing the boys thinking of, is the world cup right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Can I ask if these tanks are oxygen or compressed air? Just an example if stupid reporters and editors with no real World experience. Doesn't it make sense to restock all the tanks while the dive team rests? And also these first 4 boys were chosen for a reason. Their medical evaluation and recovery in the first 12-18 hours probably is very helpful for the doctor inside to make further recommendations. This story will make a very good movie. I'm not second guessing the operation. I'm not worried about which countries divers are best at diving in caves. It's a small set of weirdos who enjoy something like this. Compressed air is what they use diving. But they are also infusing oxygen into the air of the cave so may need both. I am astounded that even after the brilliantly executed operation yesterday, some posters continue to think (1) stupid basic mistakes must be being made and (2) that they (the poster), from the comfort of their home, know better. So amazed at people who think the rescue divers could and should keep going 24 hrs straight or more without rest. They need to be mentally and physically at the top of their game and fatigue can kill in this setting. Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, NCC1701A said: UPDATE at 8am: Nine ambulances are on standby on the road outside the cave. It is believed the rescue has re-started though it will be some hours before the first group emerges. https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1016134446594945024 Right now live on Aljazeera they say the opposite...nothing has started yet and it is unknown when the rescue operation will resume... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Real Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Disregarding if they started or not started todays continuing operation of saving all the persons trapped in the cave, it´s high time to give them all moral support, hope and a good luck regarding todays risky work. Take them all out alive and continue be the heroes you already are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampang2 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Curious about the water levels.If they have been affected by the rain yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Real Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lampang2 said: Curious about the water levels. If they have been affected by the rain yet. Yeah, unfortunately they might. It went very quick when the boys and their coach went in, anyway. I am also curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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