Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[JLCrab]

That's fine except many retirees in Thailand no longer have a US bank and deposits of SocSec or other deposits go directly to the Bangkok Bank NY ACH facility.

[Paul Catton]

Being honest, if you can't have parked 800, 000THB for an extension based upon your retirement, or 400,000THB for extension based upon marriage you really have failed.

[LomSak27]

Well love to here more about this. Not applying in Chiang Mai, but close by -  While I have bank accounts and Mutual Fund Accounts, and a nice chunk in a Thai bank account. I have no record of payments going into my Thai account monthly  because I am JUST applying for my 1st 90 day non O, to get it ext for Retirement . Is it a good idea to just slam over and top off my thai account at 800 K and go from there? Or put deposit 65 K baht to my current account get a print out, I'll be up at 300K there. Print Money Market, and Mutual Fund account pages and take with.

Question - I don't like giving them my account numbers. Can I ink out the last 3 digits?

Note not Chiang Mai but close by and this Immigration is NOT friendly.

[Thaidream]

If you get Social Security- they will provide a letter indcating your montly benefit amount. If you use their website- it can be printed immediately.

 

If you  get a VA pension or a military retirement- they als provide a letter verify benefit amount.

 

Since everyone gets all their income normally by some electronic means- a bank direct depeosit- your bank can and will provide documentation of monthly deposits or provide a monthly statement. In addition if you have online banking- all of your bank information is available on line including the amount   dispersed and if using an ATM card- even where you used the ATM and the amount.

 

When I got o CW with my Embassy letter- I always bring the backup proof showing  6 months of bank print outs- they never ask for them and I never offer them. However, the backup proof always matches the Embassy Letter.

 

If you are getting income from renting your house; stocks; Bonds etc- there is always some documentation you can show. If CM is doing this-they are mostly alone, just like some offices requesting the Ministry of Foreign affairs to verify signatures and another asking for medicals etc.

 

I would also add that the US Embassy affidavit is a sworn document that carries a felony indictment should the applicant lie and there have been cases of people actually going to jail for falsifying a document.

 

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

Being honest, if you can't have parked 800, 000THB for an extension based upon your retirement, or 400,000THB for extension based upon marriage you really have failed.

800K THB in a Thai Bank puts you in FBAR territory which some choose to avoid.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

 800K THB in a Thai Bank puts you in FBAR territory which some choose to avoid.

Absolutely agree- I keep several US BankAccounts and no Thai Accounts.  FBAR and all the other required reporting  that America has foisted on the rest of the World is ridiculous and most countries resent.

 

In addition to the proof I already mentioned most Americans file a US tax return showing all their income  which would match any Embassy Affidavit.  I

[NoshowJones]

Just another case of Thai immigration making up their own rules. Maybe they have a new boss.

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Many ex-pat retirees (apart from Americans) have to provide evidence of their incomes every year in order to renew their retirement visa. It seems that Thai immigration have finally worked out that there are Americans rolling up to their Embassy, raising their right hand and swearing that they have sufficient funds when in fact, they don't. Now that loophole has been closed and it seems they have to provide "hard" evidence. Yes, it's a bit of a nuisance but really, not that onerous. Welcome to the ex-pat world of everyone else...

 

Regards,

 

Joe

What about the poor guy who has bought his house for his Thai wife and kids? He could find himself being forced to leave the country, depending on his circumstances.

There are many decent people who have came to live in Thailand in the past, settled down with a wife/ GF,  maybe even a family, caring for them financially, then visa changes force them to give everything up and leave.

[Issanman]

You guys who are thinking you are going to save $50 on the affidavit notary fee will be very disappointed when you are still expected to show up with the affidavit.

Try to show up without the affidavit and see what happens.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Issanman

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

CM Immigration has some history of operating on their own rules and procedures that are not necessarily indicative of what's done in BKK or elsewhere.  I wouldn't automatically assume that something that may be occurring in CM is also going to be done everywhere else.

 

This is Thailand.

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

What about the poor guy who has bought his house for his Thai wife and kids? He could find himself being forced to leave the country, depending on his circumstances.

There are many decent people who have came to live in Thailand in the past, settled down with a wife/ GF,  maybe even a family, caring for them financially, then visa changes force them to give everything up and leave.

The only people this would affect are those who have been making false statements to US Government officials which carries the possibility of a fine and 5 years in prison

18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; ...

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The only people this would affect are those who have been making false statements to US Government officials which carries the possibility of a fine and 5 years in prison

18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; ...

i know what you are saying. but that is not what I am referring to. Rightly or wrongly, stupid or not, the very first guy I met when I came to Thailand, bought a house for himself and girlfriend, and was living on tourist visas. He had never been married in his life.

Too cut a long story short, he moved to Laos because he was not allowed to live on tourist visas. lost his house and his girlfriend.

[JLCrab]

Living on repeated Thai issued tourist visas does not involve criminal fraud against the US Government.

Edited July 11, 2018 by JLCrab

[cyberfarang]

Chiang Mai immigration have become a law on their own. I use the 80000 baht method to apply for my annual retirement extension.

 

Each year have to provide a bank balance letter from my Thai bank and relevant bank book. Was told the bank letter can be dated up to 7 days prior to my application date, same regarding my bank book. To be on the safe side (or so I thought) I usually obtain the bank letter and bank book 2 days prior to my application date.

 

This year that all changed. Was told my bank letter and bank book have to be dated on actual day of application. Luckily I always apply for my retirement extension i month before it expires just in-case of any problems. So I had to obtain another bank letter and have my bank book updated on the day.

 

I have spoken to friends since, who told me that they went for their retirement extensions with bank letters and bank books dated a few days before, and had no problems. Next year I will visit Chiang Mai immigration or an agency that I use 5 weeks prior to my application date, and ask; what do I need to provide this time? And that`s what I advise everyone to do that may save last minute panics and stress.

 

Soon, Chiang Mai immigration will be moving to the new revamped near airport location. Who knows what waits in-store for us there?

[Trujillo]

What could CM immigration's point be in, apparently, asking for hard evidence? 

How does it benefit anyone in immigration or other officials? 

[TonyClifton]

2 hours ago, Paul Catton said:

Being honest, if you can't have parked 800, 000THB for an extension based upon your retirement, or 400,000THB for extension based upon marriage you really have failed.

Being honest as you said, I don't want to park 400,000 or 800,000 when the exchange rate sucks. Proving I have money shouldn't mean lost over $1500 at a low exchange rate.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

In addition to the proof I already mentioned most Americans file a US tax return showing all their income  which would match any Embassy Affidavit.

 

No, that's not correct. I have tax-deferred and tax exempt retirement accounts that both produce substantial income, and none of that is required to be reported or is reported as part of my federal tax returns.

 

[sfokevin]

40 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

What could CM immigration's point be in, apparently, asking for hard evidence? 

How does it benefit anyone in immigration or other officials? 

Maybe in their review of a few places in Chiang Mai they found more than a few 50yo American digital nomads working while on a retirement visas and decided a firmer visa approval process is needed (and well within their rules) 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

36 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Maybe in their review of a few places in Chiang Mai they found more than a few 50yo American digital nomads working while on a retirement visas and decided a firmer visa approval process is needed (and well within their rules) 

Maybe 

[watcharacters]

8 hours ago, meechai said:

This was a long time coming....It was only a matter of time.

It was a given half the claims of income were BS

 

I always thought it would be funny if CM Consulate forwarded all the sworn to have XXX income per month to the IRS for their confirmation ??

 

Would have had a few surprised barstools around town

 

Do you  suppose  the IRS would go through all the necessary work to  accommodate the Thai government?

 

[The Theory]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The one downside to that is that longer term CDs and even some deposit accounts are now paying 3+% interest and rising, federally insured, in the U.S. right now,  whereas Thai accounts at sometimes unreliable banks are paying 1.5% plus.  So it means potentially taking a 50% or so loss of earning potential on those funds. I'd prefer to keep my funds earning a decent return, if I have any choice in the matter.

 

True

3% of $24000 = 2000b per month. 

But having 800,000 in Bank here is the easiest way to get an extension. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, The Theory said:

True

3% of $24000 = 2000b per month. 

But having 800,000 in Bank here is the easiest way to get an extension. 

 

 

Yep, that works out to about $60 a month in total interest based on the full amount in a 3% U.S. account. So the increased earnings over the typical 1.5%+ Thai account, in the alternative, would be about half or $30 or so per month or $300+ per year, after deducting the cost of the $50 U.S. income affidavit.

 

I won't sneeze at saving (or earning) an extra $300 per year.

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[cyberfarang]

2 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Being honest as you said, I don't want to park 400,000 or 800,000 when the exchange rate sucks. Proving I have money shouldn't mean lost over $1500 at a low exchange rate.

Very good answer.

 

I was lucky and brought over a lot of savings from the UK some years ago when the bank exchange rates were very favourable as were the bank interest rates, but there are no ways I would bring over large amounts of money today at the crap rates the banks are offering now. It would probably mean making a huge financial loss on the deal. But obviously the Thai government doesn`t give a toss about that, because we are only tolerated here provided they consider us as of benefit to Thailand, so they want our money held here rather than in foreign currencies located abroad.

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Being honest as you said, I don't want to park 400,000 or 800,000 when the exchange rate sucks. Proving I have money shouldn't mean lost over $1500 at a low exchange rate.

That is not necessary.  You can keep funds in a FC account and Immigration will accept that.

[The Theory]

42 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yep, that works out to about $60 a month in total interest based on the full amount in a 3% U.S. account. So the increased earnings over the typical 1.5%+ Thai account, in the alternative, would be about half or $30 or so per month or $300+ per year, after deducting the cost of the $50 U.S. income affidavit.

 

I won't sneeze at saving (or earning) an extra $300 per year.

 

And besides that ,

The interest I receive is not taxable from CDs in US, but here I receive interest-tax. ?

Edited July 11, 2018 by The Theory

[silverhawk_usa]

Here is the misperception that I see repeated over and over on this issue.  The affidavit that one gets from the U.S. Consulate is in no way proof of your income.    YOU are taking an oath and signing a document that states YOU swear to the amount of income YOU claim.  The Consulate is only giving you, and certifying the oath and affidavit.  The U.S. Consulate is not guaranteeing anything.  I can't think of any transaction in business or law where one would take an affidavit on face value without some 'proof' to support it.  Believe it or not, there are some dishonest people...:( 

Edited July 11, 2018 by silverhawk_usa
edit spelling, typo

[moontang]

It is unusual for interest rates to be lower here than the US.  And compare t apples to apples...yes a 10 year CD will pay 3.9% now, but a one year still only pays 2.2%...that is what to compare to the 1.7% here.... .5% On 800000 is 4000...And people are spending 20 hours getting the affidavit and the MFA stamp, coming from Pattaya.  Last year the TH B appreciated more than 10% against the Dollar....so you bring it over in chunks and when the TH B gets real strong like a few months ago, send 300,000 home..And ignore the retards, who say you cant, and ignore the other retards, who tell you to keep it in bad accounts at greedy banks.  Shop a bit..they aren't all the same.  Oh, and 50% of the letters from Americans false?  EASILY!

Too many deadbeats driving up hospital costs for all.  The Thai government and taxpayers don't owe them a bowl of rotten rice.

Edited July 11, 2018 by moontang

[TonyClifton]

18 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

Believe it or not, there are some dishonest people...:(

You are forced to be dishonest.  My money comes from a business in the USA.  It could be 3000 one month and 10,000 the next month.  There is no other way to list how you come to the 800,000 minimum.  So on its face, the document that you are forced to use doesn't fit everyone.  I had 400,000 in the bank for 2 months just in case I had to do marriage or taking care/relative of a Thai (my son 11).  I could have switched gears quickly.

[TonyClifton]

55 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

That is not necessary.  You can keep funds in a FC account and Immigration will accept that.

I don't want my money in Dollars either.  There will be a crash.  My money was in Gold.  I cashed some in to put 400,000 in the bank, just in case.  It's now 50 Dollars cheaper and I will buy it back.  There is no way for me to show collateral in Gold when that should be perfectly reasonable to use.  

[moontang]

30 minutes ago, The Theory said:

And besides that ,

The interest I receive is not taxable from CDs in US, but here I receive interest-tax. ?

it is ordinary income in the US, unless it is within your IRA.  You can easily get your taxes back here, but it still counts as investment/interest from abroad that you should claim on your 1040.