Just now, Eligius said:

Good point, KiwiKiwi. Yes,  unfortunately it has to be said in general that not many Thai university lecturers are what we in the West would deem as real 'scholars'. That has certainly been my experience. And the ones who kowtow to Authority are the stupidest, most unprincipled of all.

That is possibly very true..

 

However extolling the West can sometimes over egg the pudding,don't you think?

 

Just ask Martin Heidegger.

1984©

 

 

Now showing in a theater next to you and soon at your home if you misbehave ?

3 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

1984©

 

 

Now showing in a theater next to you and soon at your home if you misbehave ?

The problem is that the junta will not allow this film to be screened in Thai cinemas: one cinema in BKK tried it, and it was not allowed to be shown. And of course - eating a sandwich in public while reading 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' was deemed a politically subversive act.

 

So - yes - if we step out of line, we will get to know Big Brother up close and personal ....!

 

2 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

1984©

 

 

Now showing in a theater next to you and soon at your home if you misbehave ?

It is already in your home and has been for quite a while..

One man's supposed fake and distorted is another man's real truth crying to be told.

 

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

One man's supposed fake and distorted is another man's real truth crying to be told.

 

You are right, my friend.

But holding a whole nation captive at gunpoint and decimating all the people's rights - is a pretty clear, black-and-white instance of what most decent, civilised people would condemn as utterly WRONG!

Just now, Eligius said:

You are right, my friend.

But holding a whole nation captive at gunpoint and decimating all the people's rights - is a pretty clear, black-and-white instance of what most decent, civilised people would condemn as utterly WRONG!

 

I wasn't defending the system, as I'd hope you'd understand and know. I was simply pointing out how easy it is for those in power to label the truth as just the opposite.

 

Happens in Thailand. Happens a lot lately in the U.S. as well.

 

Now my friend, you have entered the "Twilight Zone" of "alternate facts and truths".

 

 

11 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

It is already in your home and has been for quite a while..

Oh my God !...you mean Big Joke is hiding in my closet ?!!! ?

46 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes, indeed! This is taken from a very good film on how most people are running around with blinkers on - not seeing the manipulated reality for what it really is.

God knows that Thailand is full-on Fantasy Land (all shiny veneer and pretense, but with a very dark hidden side ...).

Remember the subliminal advertising in the 1950ies ?.... created much uproar, was challenged, disqualified then banned but recently dug up and considered to some extent as a form of public manipulation and control..

5 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Oh my God !...you mean Big Joke is hiding in my closet ?!!! ?

Okay-you got me!

 

That is the ultimate internet "aces and eights"?

5 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Remember the subliminal advertising in the 1950ies that created much uproar, was challenged, disqualified, banned but recently dug up and was considered as a form of public manipulation and control..

Yes, indeed.

And in Thailand, the enforced brainwashing does not even need to be hidden - it is wham-bang in your face. Just go to a cinema and (I won't say more ...).

 

44 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Right! That film, along with the all-time literary classics Nineteen Eighty-Four and Brave New World, capture today's world perfectly.

 

But maybe we  will become redundant which might be even better with ......... another  Goodun

26 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes, indeed.

And in Thailand, the enforced brainwashing does not even need to be hidden - it is wham-bang in your face. Just go to a cinema and (I won't say more ...).

 

stopped  going 10 years ago for that reason, maybe extreme, its the "forcing" I dont like

I think they have more pressing things to be getting on with

 rather than worrying about a bunch of grumpy men having a laugh on Tv.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes, indeed.

And in Thailand, the enforced brainwashing does not even need to be hidden - it is wham-bang in your face. Just go to a cinema and (I won't say more ...).

 

Hmmm. The shame about it is that manipulating a population is surprisingly (and shamefully) easy, otherwise someone like Prayuth just wouldn't be able to do it, with or without his team of paid liars.

 

All you need is a population of averagely bright people (global mean = 100, Thai mean <= 90, so draw your own conclusions), with a small number of really bright people (>= 125) who have some training, and Bob's your uncle.

 

Not hard at all, and since it isn't hard, one must assume it's being done in most countries; certainly it is in US. UK, Russia etc etc (yes, even May and Trump can manage the process, which suggests how hard it must be). Even TV posters can be manipulated in surprising ways if you're prepared to be unethical, something the management knows about already.

 

Thailand is the most propagandized country I've ever seen or heard about outside of Africa, we should assume that all manner of wickedness is going on, to which the average Thai can only say 'huh?'. Just the way the ruling classes like it and want to keep it. Ignorance is bliss, and it isn't only Thais, who want to live in bliss, and are (after all) not numerous on these forums.

 

 

1 hour ago, kannot said:

stopped  going [to the cinema] 10 years ago for that reason, maybe extreme, its the "forcing" I dont like

Right! It's the criminalising of daring to have a different viewpoint that I find so appalling ...

1 hour ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Thailand is the most propagandized country I've ever seen or heard about outside of Africa ...

 

I've not lived in Africa, but Thailand is the most ridiculously, overtly, ludicrously, childishly, dementedly propagandized (to a literally pathological degree) country I have ever visited or lived in.

 

Psychologists, sociologists and psychiatrists really need to study this country (objectively - not viewed through 'politically correct' lenses) - not least what happened (it was staggering, unbelievable, unprecedented) on a national scale a year or so ago. TOTAL conformism ...

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Eligius said:

I've not lived in Africa, but Thailand is the most ridiculously, overtly, ludicrously, childishly, dementedly propagandized (to a literally pathological degree) country I have ever visited or lived in.

 

Psychologists, sociologists and psychiatrists really need to study this country (objectively - not viewed through 'politically correct' lenses) - not least what happened (it was staggering, unbelievable, unprecedented) on a national scale a year or so ago. TOTAL conformism ...

 

 

 

 

Agreed, but it isn't going to change, the status quo depends upon it not changing. Hence Prayuth, because the amart were very concerned that it was changing, and that Thaksin was responsible.

 

The coup had nothing at all to do with what it was believed to be for, it had everything to do with ensuring continuity, simple as that. And that means continuity of the appalling education system, and the appalling level of corruption, and the appalling level of propagandisation, which, along with the appalling quality of the education system ensures that the corruption can continue.

14 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Agreed, but it isn't going to change, the status quo depends upon it not changing. Hence Prayuth, because the amart were very concerned that it was changing, and that Thaksin was responsible.

 

The coup had nothing at all to do with what it was believed to be for, it had everything to do with ensuring continuity, simple as that. And that means continuity of the appalling education system, and the appalling level of corruption, and the appalling level of propagandisation, which, along with the appalling quality of the education system ensures that the corruption can continue.

One of the best posts in a long while. Very insightful and accurate comments, KiwiKiwi. You have summed up the situation perfectly.

 

If I might add, on a personal note: for someone (like me) who has a strong libertarian, egalitarian, democratic, anti-hierarchical streak in his nature, living in Thailand can at times be extremely challenging - both politically and psychologically. But some of us have responsibilities here, and take those responsibilities seriously - so we do not just turn our backs on people and families that we deeply care about, and flee the country ...

 

9 minutes ago, Eligius said:

One of the best posts in a long while. Very insightful and accurate comments, KiwiKiwi. You have summed up the situation perfectly.

 

If I might add, on a personal note: for someone (like me) who has a strong libertarian, egalitarian, democratic, anti-hierarchical streak in his nature, living in Thailand can at times be extremely challenging - both politically and psychologically. But some of us have responsibilities here, and take those responsibilities seriously - so we do not just turn our backs on people and families that we deeply care about ...

Indeed, I understand, I too have commitments that I care about.

 

Perhaps it's an age thing, that's possible, but I grow weary of the interminable defending of the indefensible in Thailand by many people who frankly, seem incapable of telling the difference between their backsides and their elbows. And don't they get irritated when shown the unfathomable stupidity of their positions, so off they go, whining to the mods and gawd knows who else about the bad men who are bringing TV into disrepute by not thinking the same as they do. As if having staff who cheat on their gold handicaps and act like some kind of Marshall Dillon of Dodge City somehow doesn't bring TV into disrepute. Check the internet if you don't believe... These are things that badly need to change if Thaivisa is to survive in any useful form; by the way, I heard a rumour about a sale recently, though that's gone quiet lately..

 

The answer is education, If the Thai people understood how manipulated their behaviour is, and how deep that manipulation goes, and if they had even a handful of self-respect instead of the indoctrinated sense of face that they do have, they would kick this current bunch of ruffians out and make sure that no army officer ever again has the gall to take over their elected government, and I don't give a fig what the barstool brigade have to say on that subject, they should just focus on getting fat and dying of a respectable heart attack.

 

Education is the key, and to educate one has to explain.

Just another law that puts the complete iron fist power as such control like how China does it. No freedom for the most part, and step to the right or the left and watch out. 

55 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Indeed, I understand, I too have commitments that I care about.

#1

Perhaps it's an age thing, that's possible, but I grow weary of the interminable defending of the indefensible in Thailand by many people who frankly, seem incapable of telling the difference between their backsides and their elbows. And don't they get irritated when shown the unfathomable stupidity of their positions, so off they go, whining to the mods and gawd knows who else about the bad men who are bringing TV into disrepute by not thinking the same as they do. As if having staff who cheat on their gold handicaps and act like some kind of Marshall Dillon of Dodge City somehow doesn't bring TV into disrepute. Check the internet if you don't believe... These are things that badly need to change if Thaivisa is to survive in any useful form; by the way, I heard a rumour about a sale recently, though that's gone quiet lately..

#2

The answer is education, If the Thai people understood how manipulated their behaviour is, and how deep that manipulation goes, and if they had even a handful of self-respect instead of the indoctrinated sense of face that they do have, they would kick this current bunch of ruffians out and make sure that no army officer ever again has the gall to take over their elected government, and I don't give a fig what the barstool brigade have to say on that subject, they should just focus on getting fat and dying of a respectable heart attack.

 

Education is the key, and to educate one has to explain.

#1: The white man's burden? They know best. It's easy enough to condemn the "natives", but it really rankles when a fellow white man challenges them! Incidentally, what riles them the most is when you take the mickey out of them - I think because it brings it home to them just how ridiculous they are.

 

#2: Education is the key. The current education system is designed to keep the people ignorant, and essentially uninformed. Modern media, with it's almost total reach to young people, and its lack of accountability to the established order, is changing that. It is informing people. Yes most of it is wittering on about what they ate for breakfast, but a small amount is genuinely informative, and that small amount will be an engine for change. That's why the old guard are trying to gain control of it. They have left it too late. The Chinese have managed to impose controls, but they were in at the start. Their Thai counterparts have left it too late, the ship has sailed and they can't swim fast enough to catch it.

 

This society is in transition. The junta managed the recent physical transition well (they had had plenty of time to prepare and let's face it b*gg*r all else to do). But people's views, enthusiasms for establishment concerns, and respect for the established order have changed with that transition.

Because of social media informing them. It is like a snowball rolling down hill, slow and small at first, but gathering speed and size as it goes, until it becomes an avalanche - not a metaphor that I ever thought I would apply to Thailand but there you go!

 

The only way to avoid that avalanche is for the establishment to change, to become more open, relevant and responsive to the needs and wishes of their people. To stop telling them what to say and think, and to start listening to what they say, and think. They aren't that nimble, they can't and won't do it. It will finish them. The old white men from #1 will be left crying into their beer.

 

For my money the main issue is can that change be accomplished without great violence? I think Bangkok will be messy, there will certainly be blood and snot on the walls of the corridors of power. I hope that the rest of the country will primarily be spectators

I'm not sure why this is news. I thought that this has been in force for some time. 

Its wonderful this new technology. Smoke an mirrors are replaced. The Thai's got the capacity to do this via the donation of equipment from Obama' regime.

14 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan has instructed responsible units to monitor online information and bring those who spread false information deemed a threat to national security, to justice. 

 I guess this means that we TV commentards have to 'watch' out?

14 hours ago, baboon said:

I wouldn't worry too much about it. You have the likes of JAG and myself who have been at them from more or less day one, but we remain at large. Now either the junta are scared of us, which I somehow doubt, incapable of finding us, which I doubt too, or simply don't care what we think. I am going with the latter.

They have enough of a job on their hands keeping tabs on their homegrown dissidents without worrying about a website that few to no Thais read.

One word of advice covers a lot of issues here: VPN.

don't cruise the web without it.

 

A good one like ExpressVPN cannot ever reveal your true identity or location . Even if forced by governments, the technology simply makes it impossible. Data is encrypted from your computer, thru your ISP, and into the VPN sever owned by your VPN company in the location you choose from many across the world. Then that server connects to the web.. All that can be determined is that somebody with anonymous IP  address connected to the web in that country. If you want you can even change that country every week or every hour to further muddy your trail.

 

However, once you start posting on websites you are exposing yourself with whatever information you give that site. Such as the ignoble Fakebook.

 

I must say that using that service is akin to walking into a burning barn just to see the pretty lights dance. That said, much of the world had become incomprehensible to me lately. Your mileage may vary.

 

I got one years ago to defeat the intense level of snooping that my own ISP and dear government (that Shining Land across the sea with the Yellow Baboon) has chosen to plague its citizens with.

 

It has served me well in travels around the world and hardly a day goes by that I don't thank myself for the protection I have gotten for $110/year.

 

Oh,and add a Tracking blocker such as Ghostery to your browser. You will likewise thank yourself for that.

 

If you value your privacy in the least, Gear Up people. It's a war out there and it's dangerous to your well-being to be naive about the forces arrayed against you. They seek every scrap of information they can obtain on you and will use it against you in every way possible. Crazy? Absolutely. True? Absolutely.

 

I have made an avocation of protecting my identity on the web and safeguarding my data for several years now, and stay abreast of the threat and possible countermeasures.

 

And before your ask, no, I don't have a tinfoil hat. I have fashioned a custom one for myself using multiple layers of copper sheet and Graphite fiber. A bit heavy but well worth the effort!

1 hour ago, Jimbo in Thailand said:

 I guess this means that we TV commentards have to 'watch' out?

Only to a point. This is the sort of thing that goes down the food chain and keeps the people in their place (the culture of kicking dogs is alive and well here). But the powers that be crave international approval and recognition and know how ugly things would turn if they started trying to enact these ridiculous laws on foreigners. 

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Only to a point. This is the sort of thing that goes down the food chain and keeps the people in their place (the culture of kicking dogs is alive and well here). But the powers that be crave international approval and recognition and know how ugly things would turn if they started trying to enact these ridiculous laws on foreigners. 

I like to think you are right - but sadly, I fear that Western governments are so lacking in a moral base or ethical principles these days that they would barely kick up any fuss at all if one of us were imprisoned or heavily fined for something we had said online in Thailand.

 

I can imagine the British authorities, for example, saying something like: 'We are in contact with the British person who has broken Thai law and made it clear that there is little we can do when a British subject does not respect the laws of the country in which he or she is resident. We have spoken to the Thai authorities and expressed our concern.

Meanwhile, we have sealed an excellent trade deal with Thailand ....'

That is the Realpolitik of today's conscienceless world of 'leaders', I am afraid.

9 hours ago, JAG said:

#1: The white man's burden? They know best. It's easy enough to condemn the "natives", but it really rankles when a fellow white man challenges them! Incidentally, what riles them the most is when you take the mickey out of them - I think because it brings it home to them just how ridiculous they are.

 

#2: Education is the key. The current education system is designed to keep the people ignorant, and essentially uninformed. Modern media, with it's almost total reach to young people, and its lack of accountability to the established order, is changing that. It is informing people. Yes most of it is wittering on about what they ate for breakfast, but a small amount is genuinely informative, and that small amount will be an engine for change. That's why the old guard are trying to gain control of it. They have left it too late. The Chinese have managed to impose controls, but they were in at the start. Their Thai counterparts have left it too late, the ship has sailed and they can't swim fast enough to catch it.

 

This society is in transition. The junta managed the recent physical transition well (they had had plenty of time to prepare and let's face it b*gg*r all else to do). But people's views, enthusiasms for establishment concerns, and respect for the established order have changed with that transition.

Because of social media informing them. It is like a snowball rolling down hill, slow and small at first, but gathering speed and size as it goes, until it becomes an avalanche - not a metaphor that I ever thought I would apply to Thailand but there you go!

 

The only way to avoid that avalanche is for the establishment to change, to become more open, relevant and responsive to the needs and wishes of their people. To stop telling them what to say and think, and to start listening to what they say, and think. They aren't that nimble, they can't and won't do it. It will finish them. The old white men from #1 will be left crying into their beer.

 

For my money the main issue is can that change be accomplished without great violence? I think Bangkok will be messy, there will certainly be blood and snot on the walls of the corridors of power. I hope that the rest of the country will primarily be spectators

 

A fine post to my mind, though I suspect you have too much faith in the ability or willingness of the feudal barons to change. Every single instance I know of has seen them resisting change, even to the point of killing people to make their point. I see no signs of a change in this, if there were, Prayuth would surely be on his bike and pedalling off by now. No, They will stonewall, obfuscate and ignore, simply because it's always worked in the past.

 

I believe that for things to change requires a blood sacrifice, or, as you more succinctly put it, blood and snot on the walls. This is always required when the fat cats aren't bright enough to see the writing on the wall, and that does seem to be the case in Thailand.

 

The determining factor is whether Thais, often idle beyond fathoming and none too bright, can be bothered to make a stand on principle. I'm betting they won't be able to. It's easier to count on the old ways of patronage and face.

 

 

6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Only to a point. This is the sort of thing that goes down the food chain and keeps the people in their place (the culture of kicking dogs is alive and well here). But the powers that be crave international approval and recognition and know how ugly things would turn if they started trying to enact these ridiculous laws on foreigners. 

 

A fine observation. Yes, I have no doubt you're right, and this is how I also think it must be when the worry-warts start muttering about clamp-downs on foreigners. I think the inward foreign investment people might notice and decide that Thailand's 'libertarian' government isn't quite as libertarian as they pretend to be (though frankly I would have thought the military uniforms might have been a bit of a hint in that direction). Still, you know what City Bankers are...