UK watchdog and EU tell banks to prepare for hard Brexit

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

Well if you are interested and really want to catch up on this topic there is plenty of information on the web.

Cop out.

[stephenterry]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

Not great composition but I think I know what you mean. Some of the points are valid and some are simply ridiculous. But it might surprise you to know that your list misses top reasons for the leave vote completely, which are the issues of the steady erosion of UK sovereignty and the growing influence of EU law over British law. 

 

As ever, the remain argument relies on the probable negative economic effects and you mention "several simple home-based reasons not linked with the economy" but actually most of the valid listed ones listed are directly or indirectly economic. 

 

 

How sad. If you went out on the streets of Boro and started to talk about loss of UK sovereignty and the growing influence of EU law over British law, you'd be taken to a dole queue and told 'this is what matters mate. Now p**s off back to where you come from.'

 

In other words, I think  your rationale is way over the head of most leavers, who couldn't care a toss, as long as it satisfies the mantra of 'leaving the EU must be better than what we got now'. In addition, probably all bar a few leavers have had any adverse effects of losing sovereignty  or have been adversely affected by EU law. To think otherwise is just as ridiculous, IMO.

 

While it might make for an interesting debating point on a forum, you need to accept the realities of living in the UK are not ideological for the masses.  

 

  

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

How sad. If you went out on the streets of Boro and started to talk about loss of UK sovereignty and the growing influence of EU law over British law, you'd be taken to a dole queue and told 'this is what matters mate. Now p**s off back to where you come from.'

 

In other words, I think  your rationale is way over the head of most leavers, who couldn't care a toss, as long as it satisfies the mantra of 'leaving the EU must be better than what we got now'. In addition, probably all bar a few leavers have had any adverse effects of losing sovereignty  or have been adversely affected by EU law. To think otherwise is just as ridiculous, IMO.

 

While it might make for an interesting debating point on a forum, you need to accept the realities of living in the UK are not ideological for the masses.  

 

  

Again you ignore two main reasons for the leave vote but jump into your Tardis and take us to "Boro"!

 

Your quoted "mantra" is your property alone.

 

At least you admit that we have lost sovereignty.

 

You need to get out more.

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Again you ignore two main reasons for the leave vote but jump into your Tardis and take us to "Boro"!

 

Your quoted "mantra" is your property alone.

 

At least you admit that we have lost sovereignty.

 

You need to get out more.

 

 

 

Virtually any time a nation signs a treaty it loses some sovereignty.

[melvinmelvin]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Virtually any time a nation signs a treaty it loses some sovereignty.

 

there are differences here

 

what is pointed to above, re legal precedence, is an aspect where EU and EEA differ from

other, if not all, treaty organizations

 

it is a quite normal routine in treaty organizations, when new treaties are born, that

EU and EFTA/EEA countries insert footnotes in the treaty stating that their acceptance

of the instrument is subject to the instrument not conflicting  with EU / EEA legislation respectively

 

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

there are differences here

 

what is pointed to above, re legal precedence, is an aspect where EU and EEA differ from

other, if not all, treaty organizations

 

it is a quite normal routine in treaty organizations, when new treaties are born, that

EU and EFTA/EEA countries insert footnotes in the treaty stating that their acceptance

of the instrument is subject to the instrument not conflicting  with EU / EEA legislation respectively

 

Thanks for the correction.

[melvinmelvin]

59 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Thanks for the correction.

 

not really a correction, just additional juice, krap

btw, in a remote corner on my laptop I found some footnote samples;

 

 

first a pretty standard EU footnote:

 

Original: English/French/Spanish

 

 

 

For the Federal Republic of Germany, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Spain,

 

Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Kingdom of the

 

Netherlands, Portugal, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern

 

Ireland and Sweden:

 

 

 

The delegations of the Member States of the European Union declare that the

Member States of the European Union will apply the instruments adopted by the

Plenipotentiary Conference (Marrakesh, 2002) in accordance with their

obligations under the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community.

 

 

then a EFTA/EEA pot (piece of text):

 

Original: English

 

For Iceland, the Principality of Liechtenstein and Norway:

 

 

 

At the time of signing the Final Acts of the Plenipotentiary Conference

(Marrakesh, 2002), the delegations of the above-mentioned Member States

declare that they maintain the declarations and reservations made by their

countries when signing the Final Acts of the Additional Plenipotentiary

Conference (Geneva, 1992), the Final Acts of the Plenipotentiary Conference

(Kyoto, 1994) and the Final Acts of the Plenipotentiary Conference

(Minneapolis, 1998).

 

 

 

 

Original: English

 

For Iceland, the Principality of Liechtenstein and Norway:

 

 

 

The delegations of the above-mentioned Member States of the European

Economic Area declare that the above-mentioned Member States of the European

Economic Area will apply the instruments adopted by the Plenipotentiary

Conference (Marrakesh, 2002) in accordance with their obligations under the

Treaty establishing the European Economic Area.

 

 

and finally, another pot that shows that some countries take the EU upper hand pretty seriously

 

 

Original: English

 

For the Republic of Cyprus, the Republic of Estonia, the Republic of Hungary, the

 

Republic of Latvia, the Republic of Lithuania, Malta, the Republic of Poland, the

 

Slovak Republic, the Czech Republic, Romania and Turkey:

 

 

 

The delegations of these countries, which are candidates for future membership of

the European Union, declare that the Czech Republic, Estonia, Cyprus, Latvia,

Lithuania, Hungary, Malta, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Turkey will apply the

acts adopted under the Constitution and Convention of ITU, but from the date of

their accession to the European Community application will be subject to

obligations under the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community.

Edited July 30, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[stephenterry]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

Again you ignore two main reasons for the leave vote but jump into your Tardis and take us to "Boro"!

 

Your quoted "mantra" is your property alone.

 

At least you admit that we have lost sovereignty.

 

You need to get out more.

 

 

 

The main reasons people voted for leave was as I posted taken from countrywide polling surveys carried out after the referendum - you really ought to read it properly, and zilch to do with your stated 'main reasons' why people voted to leave. To think otherwise is pure delusion.  

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The main reasons people voted for leave was as I posted taken from countrywide polling surveys carried out after the referendum - you really ought to read it properly, and zilch to do with your stated 'main reasons' why people voted to leave. To think otherwise is pure delusion.  

"The main reasons people voted for leave was as I posted taken from countrywide polling surveys carried out after the referendum"

 

I suspect that more than a few of us are tired of polls - even if they're described as "countrywide polling surveys" ?.

 

They were wrong prior to the referendum, but some still prefer to believe them - as long as they're supporting their cause....

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"The main reasons people voted for leave was as I posted taken from countrywide polling surveys carried out after the referendum"

 

I suspect that more than a few of us are tired of polls - even if they're described as "countrywide polling surveys" ?.

 

They were wrong prior to the referendum, but some still prefer to believe them - as long as they're supporting their cause....

Once again the falsehood that the polls were wrong. Actually, given the margin of error in the polls, it was rated a tossup. It was the pundits who overwhelmingly ignored the polls who got it wrong.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

"The main reasons people voted for leave was as I posted taken from countrywide polling surveys carried out after the referendum"

 

I suspect that more than a few of us are tired of polls - even if they're described as "countrywide polling surveys" ?.

 

They were wrong prior to the referendum, but some still prefer to believe them - as long as they're supporting their cause....

The factual information was obtained from those polling stations who were willing to disclose voters' preferences. Some constituencies refused to disclose any information, as is their right. You only have to Google it.

 

And more to the point on why people voted as they did - a people's referendum on the final negotiations outcome is being mooted. IMO, if parliament agree and it's a similar simple question of whether to leave or remain, voters in general would vote exactly the same way as they did previously and for the same reasons. 

 

As would eligible posters on this site.

 

 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

Quote

Sky: British public opinion has shifted sharply against Brexit, according to a new Sky Data poll.

 

The survey reveals:

:: The government is haemorrhaging trust regarding the Brexit negotiations

:: Two-thirds of the public - including a majority of Leave voters - now think the outcome of Brexit negotiations will be bad for Britain

:: A significant increase in the proportion who think Brexit will negatively affect themselves personally, the economy and the country overall

:: Most people would like to see a referendum asking between the deal suggested by the government, no deal, and remaining in the EU.

Source: https://news.sky.com/story/public-opinion-is-shifting-sharply-against-brexit-sky-data-poll-reveals-11453220

Full data: https://interactive.news.sky.com/brexitshifttabs.pdf

 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[CG1 Blue]

43 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

The recent revival of Project Fear is helping to shift public opinion. Food rations and army intervention are the latest gems.

Remainer May is playing a blinder in her attempts to scare people off leaving the EU.

[melvinmelvin]

 

army intervention?

not bad

 

free attitude adjustment, as in LoS?

 

[stephenterry]

46 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The recent revival of Project Fear is helping to shift public opinion. Food rations and army intervention are the latest gems.

Remainer May is playing a blinder in her attempts to scare people off leaving the EU.

And, so what's wrong with this? It must be blindingly obvious that Brexit is a failure of the highest magnitude.  

[CG1 Blue]

20 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

army intervention?

not bad

 

free attitude adjustment, as in LoS?

 

Maybe!

 

George Osborne's Evening Standard came up with this beauty:

 

"Army 'on standby to deliver food and medicine' if no Brexit deal is reached

 

But a Downing Street spokesman told the BBC: "There are no plans to involve the Army. I don't know where that speculation came from."

 

I wonder...

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

I don't know if Brexit is a good or bad idea,

but I can easily relate to the wish for better control of legal regulations, trade and policy re 3rd party

 

keep in mind that the VAST majority of countries in the world get by outside of EEA and EU,

admittedly, some better than others

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

And, so what's wrong with this? It must be blindingly obvious that Brexit is a failure of the highest magnitude.  

Brexit is a failure? How can you possibly know that already?

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Brexit is a failure? How can you possibly know that already?

 

some people have hindsight (the only true wisdom)

some rely on foresight

 

 

[tebee]

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Brexit is a failure? How can you possibly know that already?

Well for a start no one's been able to tell us what (other than Brexit) it is ?

[brewsterbudgen]

The recent revival of Project Fear is helping to shift public opinion. Food rations and army intervention are the latest gems.
Remainer May is playing a blinder in her attempts to scare people off leaving the EU.

Yet she still refuses to let the public decide on the terms of leaving.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CG1 Blue]

11 minutes ago, tebee said:

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Brexit is a failure? How can you possibly know that already?

Well for a start no one's been able to tell us what (other than Brexit) it is ?

That's a different matter.  Brexit negotiations have been a disaster, yes.

But Brexit itself hasn't happened, so how can it be a disaster already!

[sungod]

On 7/20/2018 at 7:03 PM, RuamRudy said:

Not all of them...

 

 

Never could work that one out, the Jocks want Independence but to be told what to do by Brussels.

[melvinmelvin]

57 minutes ago, sungod said:

Never could work that one out, the Jocks want Independence but to be told what to do by Brussels.

 

thank you krap,

that map was very educational to me, if it is correct

no doubt where England want to go, with a solid majority

 

factoring in NI and Scotland is a challenge

 

 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

I don't know if Brexit is a good or bad idea,

but I can easily relate to the wish for better control of legal regulations, trade and policy re 3rd party

 

keep in mind that the VAST majority of countries in the world get by outside of EEA and EU,

admittedly, some better than others

 

 

The vast majority of countries aren't contiguous or very close.

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The vast majority of countries aren't contiguous or very close.

arai krap?

 

look at Africa south of Sahara

look at South America

Look at Africa north of Sahara

look at SEA

look at ME

 

not very close?

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[tideout]

"Britain says this is one-sided and wants changes to make it more predictable and transparent....."

 

Yes, I think that's the point of the EU.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

That's a different matter.  Brexit negotiations have been a disaster, yes.

But Brexit itself hasn't happened, so how can it be a disaster already!

Nobody but nobody,  has been able to come up with a plan for exiting the European Union that can satisfy both a majority in Parliament and the expectant public. Why? Because fulfilling the false promises peddled  during the campaign is impossible.

 

There is no easy, prosperous, productive Brexit that the voters are impatiently expecting, and instead we have the grim, complicated cost of disentangling economies that have been intertwined for decades. This  has poisoned and paralyzed British politics. No one knows what to do.

 

The Conservatives cannot admit to the electorate that they were deceived without splitting the party and wrecking their electoral chances for decades.

[Jip99]

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

Nobody but nobody,  has been able to come up with a plan for exiting the European Union that can satisfy both a majority in Parliament and the expectant public. Why? Because fulfilling the false promises peddled  during the campaign is impossible.

 

There is no easy, prosperous, productive Brexit that the voters are impatiently expecting, and instead we have the grim, complicated cost of disentangling economies that have been intertwined for decades. This  has poisoned and paralyzed British politics. No one knows what to do.

 

The Conservatives cannot admit to the electorate that they were deceived without splitting the party and wrecking their electoral chances for decades.

 

 

 

Don't you think "the EU" should have had a blueprint for exit  ?

 

 

After all, Article 50 was of their construction....

 

Article 50

• 
• 

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Jip99

[bristolboy]

38 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

arai krap?

 

look at Africa south of Sahara

look at South America

Look at Africa north of Sahara

look at SEA

look at ME

 

not very close?

 

I have no idea what you're on about. Are most of these countries contiguous or close to the EU? 

And what does "getting by" even mean in the context of economics? This seems like data free nonsense.