Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[Berkshire]

17 minutes ago, soisanuk said:

Actually, the rule regarding use of the IAT when the ultimate destination was outside of USA was implemented by the ACH system in 2009 to comply with US money laundering laws.  Apparently Bangkok Bank did not comply when the rule came out, but was "caught" and told to comply - thus their webpage which covers not only the first deadline of 1 April 2019 for those with existing NY Branch transfers already set up (previously did the two deposit linking process) - it also provides instructions which did go into effect for setting up the process (new) which does require using the IAT format.  Since not following the requirement could jeopardize Bangkok Bank's NY Branch participation in the ACH system, it appears they did receive a dispensation on enforcement until April 1 -- an then have gotten it for the subsequent extensions -- BUT, at some point the ACH regulatory institution is bound to cease approving any more extensions and Bangkok Bank NY Branch will then be forced to stop accepting them unless in the IAT format.

Regarding the boldface in your post, if this IAT thing was mandated 10 years ago, it's rather amazing that ZERO US financial institutions has an IAT compliant system for retail customers...don't you think?   

[skatewash]

4 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Regarding the boldface in your post, if this IAT thing was mandated 10 years ago, it's rather amazing that ZERO US financial institutions has an IAT compliant system for retail customers...don't you think?   

I'm not sure how many banks were actually doing what Bangkok Bank did which was take money from a domestic ACH transfer and effectively convert that into an international SWIFT transfer to that customer's Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.  Basically, converting a domestic transfer into an international one.  I imagine the vast majority of banks simply used the ACH system to transfer funds from one domestic bank to another one.

My understanding is that the IAT format only became an issue because Bangkok Bank was effectively doing this second international SWIFT transfer and the existing domestic ACH transfer format doesn't contain the necessary data to fill in the international SWIFT transfer to the extent required by the US Government.

[JimGant]

A few tidbits on why IAT hasn't realized wider implementation:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/other-reports/ACH-report-201107.htm

 

Quote

Although the new IAT format became effective under the NACHA operating rules in September 2009, the inclusion of the new format in software supporting ACH origination and receipt has lagged significantly. Given that only a very small portion of depository institutions are sending international ACH transfers, not all vendors updated their software to include full functionality supporting the IAT format on the effective date. At the time, software vendors largely focused on the ability to receive the IAT format rather than the ability to send. Today, some depository institutions continue to report format access as a barrier to originating international ACH transfers.

Quote

 ...depository institutions may be taking a cautious approach to offering international ACH transfers to their customers due to compliance-risk concerns. It may take additional time for institutions to become accustomed to this option (versus wire transfers through international correspondent banks) and to assess fully how to comply with legal requirements.

Quote

Depository institutions may also be reluctant to offer international ACH transfer services if they would affect the profitability of other business lines, by, for example, diverting higher-margin international wire transfer volume to lower-margin ACH volume. Each institution would need to assess the effect of originating international ACH transfers on its overall costs and revenues.

Re the last item: Yeah, why would USAA pay to upgrade their software to accommodate IAT -- if that means they'll lose $45 international wire fees.....

[Pib]

Yeap....US banks have been able to "receive" IAT format for around a decade; but for whatever reasons they do not want to get involved in "sending" IAT format at the everyday retail level.  I expect a combination of legal and fee issues exist which keeps them away from offering sending capability....pretty much as JimGant's post above talks.  Plus, the banks already have SWIFT capability which allows them to send to almost any country on Earth.  But in the case of ACH IAT few for foreign banks want to get directly interfaced to the US ACH system because of little need and regulatory requirements...and once again, they have SWIFT capability.

 

Yes, some large banks do offer IAT sending capability to corporate/business customers...like those type of business customers who buy foreign goods/service, pay foreign payroll, etc.   But for retain accounts...for the typical you and me off the street...ACH IAT sending capability is not made available.  But never fear because the bank has SWIFT capability.

[Jingthing]

Yes SWIFT is always there but often expensive.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[PattayaDavid]

23 hours ago, Pib said:

[mention=42517]pattayadavid[/mention]

 

To determine if your transfer was in IAT format give Bkk Bk a call in Bangkok....they can tell you within a few minutes. See this earlier 6 April post.

 

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/index.php?/topic/1050250-Major-Change-Eff-1-Apr-19-in-Bangkok-Bank-ACH-Transfers&do=findComment&comment=14016860

 

 

I called Bangkok Bank today and they confirmed that my transfer was made using standard domestic ACH and not IAT.  She could not confirm as to whether September 16th was the final cutoff; that is up to Bangkok Bank New York.  She said that it could continue through the rest of the year, but she hasn't heard anything one way or another.

[Pib]

25 minutes ago, PattayaDavid said:

I called Bangkok Bank today and they confirmed that my transfer was made using standard domestic ACH and not IAT.  She could not confirm as to whether September 16th was the final cutoff; that is up to Bangkok Bank New York.  She said that it could continue through the rest of the year, but she hasn't heard anything one way or another.

It it continues thru the rest of the year to sometime in early Jan 2020 for personal transfers that would put it into sync with govt/private pension non-IAT transfers cutoff date which was to be early Jan 2020.  Guess we'll have to wait and see if personal transfers initiated on or after 16 Sep get through....if they do then that means Bkk Bk has once again redrawn a line in the sand.   

 

And your call confirms your TD Ameritrade transfer was not in IAT format.  

[Berkshire]

24 minutes ago, Pib said:

It it continues thru the rest of the year to sometime in early Jan 2020 for personal transfers that would put it into sync with govt/private pension non-IAT transfers cutoff date which was to be early Jan 2020.  Guess we'll have to wait and see if personal transfers initiated on or after 16 Sep get through....if they do then that means Bkk Bk has once again redrawn a line in the sand.   

 

And your call confirms your TD Ameritrade transfer was not in IAT format.  

Regarding the Jan 2020 date for govt/private pension, has US government agencies actually become compliant with IAT requirements?  I doubt the VA or social security has become compliant.  If BKK Bank goes through with the ban, it may create significant hardship.   

[Pib]

Regarding the Jan 2020 date for govt/private pension, has US government agencies actually become compliant with IAT requirements?  I doubt the VA or social security has become compliant.  If BKK Bank goes through with the ban, it may create significant hardship.   

 

Don't know about the VA but the SSA sends in IAT format if you have a foriegn address on file with them....they even send in IAT format if sending to a US bank like USAA, BoA, etc. Having a foreign address on file apparently triggers use of IAT format. But if you have a US address (including an APO address) on file the SSA will send in domestic format (I.e., non-IAT).

 

 

 Both VA and SSA also offer IDD to Thailand but once again you must have a foriegn address on file. Therefore, no hardship will occur if the beneficiary takes action to get their foriegn address on file.

 

 

[Pib]

Deleted...duplicate to above.

 

 

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Don't know about the VA but the SSA sends in IAT format if you have a foriegn address on file with them....they even send in IAT format if sending to a US bank like USAA, BoA, etc. Having a foreign address on file apparently triggers use of IAT format. But if you have a US address (including an APO address) on file the SSA will send in domestic format (I.e., non-IAT).

 

 

 Both VA and SSA also offer IDD to Thailand but once again you must have a foriegn address on file. Therefore, no hardship will occur if the beneficiary takes action to get their foriegn address on file.

 

Update: the VA does send in IAT format if you have your foreign address on file with them.  I confirmed by looking at my VA payment description at my US bank before and after I changed addresses....that is, changed from a US address to my Thailand address.  When updating my VA address to my Thailand address the payment changed to IAT format (you can tell by how the payment description changes)....just as what happened with a family member's SSA payment to Bangkok Bank (confirmed by payment description change and contacting Bangkok Bank).  However, updating my address with DFAS (mil retirement pay) did not change the payment format to IAT as far as I can tell....and DFAS does not do IDD to Thailand either.  

 

[Langsuan Man]

OK, I am going to take one for the team by initiating an EFTS via Fidelity since I was going to do a wire anyway.  The difference should only be the BB fee (s) since previous SWIFT wires from Fidelity incurred no fees on either end, Watch this thread for update 

 

[Langsuan Man]

Update COB, US,  9/17/19, if they bounce it is usually at this point

 

[Somewhere In Time]

UPDATE

 

This email just received 3 hours ago from Khun Sirivan at Bangkok Bank's New York Branch.  Lots of good info to peruse.  

 

SIT
 

----------------------------------------------------------------
 

Dear Mr

We have promised our regulator to start returning the non-IAT transactions one week after the implementation of our new payment system which target to go live on 9/23/19.  With such time line, we’ll start to return the non-IAT on October 1, 2019.  Please be advised that our Head Office didn’t change their website as they want the customer to start finding the alternative method of transferring the funds and not waiting until last minutes, besides as our New York Branch has started sending the Notification of Changes to most of the banks in U.S.A. to change their ACH payment to an IAT format since July of this year, those banks may decide to stop sending the funds if they are not able to comply with our request.  If our Head Office changes the website and put the new date while the bank in U.S. stop their transfer, customer like yourself may not have enough time to change the method of transferring the funds.

Thank you for your kind understanding.

Best regards,

Sirivan Chuaypradit

Bangkok Bank Public Company Limited
29 Broadway, 19^th Floor,
New York, N.Y. 10006
Tel: (212) 329-9201

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 hours ago, Somewhere In Time said:

besides as our New York Branch has started sending the Notification of Changes to most of the banks in U.S.A. to change their ACH payment to an IAT format since July of this year,

 

Ya...right.... I foresee a great tidal wave of U.S. banks and credit unions re-doing their funds transfer systems to accommodate IAT transfers, instead of the normal and simpler domestic ACH method, just because BKKB NY has sent them notices asking.....

 

NOT!!!!!  

Edited September 18, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 9/17/2019 at 6:17 PM, Pib said:

However, updating my address with DFAS (mil retirement pay) did not change the payment format to IAT as far as I can tell....and DFAS does not do IDD to Thailand either.  

 

Well, that pretty much sounds like one group at least that has the potential to encounter some hardships over this.... especially after BKKB NY starts cutting off institutional ACH transfers in Jan. 2020 or thereabouts.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Ya...right.... I foresee a great tidal wave of U.S. banks and credit unions re-doing their funds transfer systems to accommodate IAT transfers, instead of the normal and simpler domestic ACH method, just because BKKB NY has sent them notices asking.....

USAA, having been blackballed early on -- while others haven't -- must have replied to BB NY with a "phuck you!"

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

However, updating my address with DFAS (mil retirement pay) did not change the payment format to IAT as far as I can tell....and DFAS does not do IDD to Thailand either.  

Pib, I thought your Air Force retired pay was direct deposited to a US bank account, not to a restricted (i.e., show up in person) BB account?

[Langsuan Man]

On 9/17/2019 at 11:50 AM, Langsuan Man said:

OK, I am going to take one for the team by initiating an EFTS via Fidelity since I was going to do a wire anyway.  The difference should only be the BB fee (s) since previous SWIFT wires from Fidelity incurred no fees on either end, Watch this thread for update 

 

 

On 9/17/2019 at 2:46 PM, Langsuan Man said:

Update COB, US,  9/17/19, if they bounce it is usually at this point

 

Closing the loop

 

So it appears that USAA is the only bank that has stopped or been stopped from using the Bangkok Bank NY Branch,  EFTS system, right now,  until someone else reports another one 

[Pib]

Pib, I thought your Air Force retired pay was direct deposited to a US bank account, not to a restricted (i.e., show up in person) BB account?

It does go to a US bank in Texas. When I updated my address from a US address to my Thailand address with SSA, VA, and DFAS the description of my payment changed for the SSA and VA payments to the description used for an IAT transfer. Changed to match IAT format descriptions per my discussions with a HQ Bangkok Bank POC on this IAT goatrope and in actual comparison to my family member's SSA payment going to Bangkok Bank.

But the DFAS description remained unchanged.

[ThaiBob]

Bangkok Bank NYC announces new Remittance program. BB reps made a short presentation of their new program at the Pattaya City Expats Club meeting today. The club will post more details at PCEC.CLUB in the next day or two. Basically you must slow mail the form (attached) to the NYC just one time for BB record keeping. After that you can setup Bill Pay at your US Bank as BB NYC at the payee. You additionally must email the Remittance Form to NYC Remittance Section. If I understand correctly you can send money to other Thai banks too. 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by ThaiBob

[Pib]

 

47 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

 If I understand correctly you can send money to other Thai banks too. 

Doubtful a person would be able to send to other Thai banks (i.e., K-bank, SCB, etc) using this method which is supposedly to replace the current ACH method going away soon for those ACH transfers not in IAT format.  The docs above say for sending to your Bangkok Bank acct in Thailand.  The first doc above has a sentence saying such and the above remittance form has Bangkok Bank pre-printed on the form and asks for the branch name.  No mention of sending to any bank like K-bank, SCB, Krungsri, etc.   Basically it would be like their current ACH transfer service which only works when sending to your Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand. 

 

Buy hey, maybe they would send to any bank if that's what they said during their presentation.  Been no shortage of conflicting/changing info from Bangkok Bank during this whole IAT goatrope affair.

 

As additional info attached is a three page Bangkok Bank doc that talks about above Remittance method along with another method of doing a "domestic wire" transfer from your US bank to Bangkok Bank NY if your US bank domestic wire transfer form allows entry of the specific info Bangkok Bank requests like Reason for Transfer, Beneficiary's address in Thailand, etc.  Bangkok Bank NY then sends the funds to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch just like their ACH transfer method. 

 

Fortunately one of my US banks uses an ibanking domestic wire format that allows/includes the info requested by Bangkok and my bank only charges a $6 domestic wire transfer fee.  So my cost is my sending bank $6 domestic wire fee plus the NY branch pass-thru fee plus the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank receiving fee.  Or said another way my transfer costs are the same as their ACH transfer method plus the domestic wire fee of $6. You get Bangkok Bank's TT Buying Exchange Rate just like in the ACH transfer method. I tested this method last week...funds posted to my in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct the next day/less than 24 hours.   Now using the "domestic" wire transfer method would probably only be economical if your US bank provides a low cost domestic wire transfer....some do; most don't as most charge approx $20 or more for a domestic wire.  

 

Bangkok Bank three page doc talking two remittance methods

[skatewash]

16 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

Bangkok Bank NYC announces new Remittance program. BB reps made a short presentation of their new program at the Pattaya City Expats Club meeting today. The club will post more details at PCEC.CLUB in the next day or two. Basically you must slow mail the form (attached) to the NYC just one time for BB record keeping. After that you can setup Bill Pay at your US Bank as BB NYC at the payee. You additionally must email the Remittance Form to NYC Remittance Section. If I understand correctly you can send money to other Thai banks too. 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing this information.  It is hard for me to see who would want to use this service, though: bank-issued check only (not sure if any of my US banks would do this for me and if they would there would almost certainly be a fee for doing so, not to mention it sounds like something that would be done over the phone rather than online).  High remittance fees ($55 + $3-120), not terribly quick delivery to Thailand (3 business days, at least), plus all the back-end fees of receiving money in Thailand (300-500 baht), in addition to the Bangkok Bank exchange rate for buying, which while not terrible is also not close to the mid-market rate that you can get from TransferWise.

 

[Pib]

See below 29 Sep post from NancyL in a related thread....talks a couple ACH transfer rejections from Bangkok Bank NY to two credit unions/banks.  Basically, Bangkok Bank NY used the ACH Notice of Change process to tell the sending CU/bank their ACH transfer was not in the required IAT format....please correct to IAT format and resend.  However since US banks/credit unions/brokerages do not send in ACH IAT format (nor to they plan to) the CU/banks instead just shutdown the person's transfer link to Bangkok Bank. 

 

Yeap...sounds like Bangkok Bank is now getting serious about enforcing their 1 Oct 2019 line in the sand for personal bank transfers.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Pib

[ThaiBob]

After talking to another expat sending money to another Thai bank is problematical as PIB noted. The 55 dollar fee is to a Foreigh Currency Deposit Account. The 200-500THB fee applies to regular savings accounts. The NYC office does the currency exchange using the THO (offshore) rate a rep told me. The processing fee above includes the currency exchange and the deposit will show as FTT in your passbook. When I last used Schwab Bill Pay they cut a check and mailed it, no charge, so fingers crossed. If I understand this right, my costs (3000 dollars) will be 10 bucks plus 500 baht at the receiving end. I am doing a Schwab international wire transfer on the 30th and Schwab charges 25 dollars but I get the money the next day. 

 

BTW, I see Arthlyn George(NYC office) as the person who signed the Remittance letter so he should be the contact for questions. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by ThaiBob

[Presnock]

For US citizens, my credit union opens accts via internet from Thailand.  Their wire transfers at $15 all done via internet with no problem to Bangkok Bank account.  Send US$ to get the best exchange rate plus your acct will indicate that the funds came from international account.  If interested let me know and I'll post contact info!

[skatewash]

9 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

... The 55 dollar fee is to a Foreigh Currency Deposit Account. The 200-500THB fee applies to regular savings accounts. The NYC office does the currency exchange using the THO (offshore) rate a rep told me. The processing fee above includes the currency exchange and the deposit will show as FTT in your passbook. When I last used Schwab Bill Pay they cut a check and mailed it, no charge, so fingers crossed. If I understand this right, my costs (3000 dollars) will be 10 bucks plus 500 baht at the receiving end. I am doing a Schwab international wire transfer on the 30th and Schwab charges 25 dollars but I get the money the next day. 

 

Yes, I misunderstood in my post above (which I can no longer edit), it would be $55 or the sliding fee schedule, not both.

[ThaiBob]

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

For US citizens, my credit union opens accts via internet from Thailand.  Their wire transfers at $15 all done via internet with no problem to Bangkok Bank account.  Send US$ to get the best exchange rate plus your acct will indicate that the funds came from international account.  If interested let me know and I'll post contact info!

I am always interested in ways on sending money to Thailand. 

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

For US citizens, my credit union opens accts via internet from Thailand.  Their wire transfers at $15 all done via internet with no problem to Bangkok Bank account.  Send US$ to get the best exchange rate plus your acct will indicate that the funds came from international account.  If interested let me know and I'll post contact info!

I'd be interested.  I tried to open a State Department Federal Credit Union account online from Thailand and was rejected (they told me I needed to apply in person).

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I'd be interested.  I tried to open a State Department Federal Credit Union account online from Thailand and was rejected (they told me I needed to apply in person).

When?

That's very hard to believe.

I opened one online about a year ago and there are multiple reports of others doing so as well.

The process will be somewhat different if you open it with a U.S. address and I.D. vs. a Thai address. 

Yes you can open it openly with a passport I.D. and Thai address online.

I suggest you try again. 

You do need to join one of the affiliate organizations to be eligible. The usual choices for expats are American Citizens Abroad which has a fairly high fee or a consumer organization that you can join online for five dollars.

 

If you continue to have problems I suggest you join the expat lobbying group and then if they give you flak ask for direct assistance from that group. They heavily market that account there!

 

I went with the 5 dollar one time option. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Jingthing