Thai govt 'must urgently tackle teacher debt crisis'

[chilli42]

Well it confirms my 25 years experience. In Thailand ... never loan a Thai anything unless you have something in your possession that becomes yours on default.  They just seem to have a mindset the does not take debt responsibility seriously.  It’s always about short term need/gratification over the long term.

[connda]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

CEBF Director Dr. Thanawat Polvichai (April 2017): "despite the increase in household debt on the part of Thai workers, more expenditures went towards durable goods, such as cars, motorcycles, and homes."

Greed is in the drivers seat.  "Economic Growth" fueled by debt is an illusion. 

 

So now they roll out academics to justify what will eventually become a 'debt crisis' by stating that all this debt is being spent on things that make corporations profit, therefore it's a 'good thing'.  Talk about magical thinking.

Edited July 30, 2018 by connda

[kannot]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

require housing and cars

They require neither, no more than anyone else and they certainly dont need a big "<deleted> off fortuna" I wonder how  many buy the smallest cheapest car??  and really whats the matter with a motorbike or even  incredibly ,two feet?

[MarcIssan]

Well there might be some land coming up for sale cheap!

[connda]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

If unable to clear their debts in one single payment, recipients need pay only the interest until they die, after which their outstanding debt is cleared with money from a funeral fund to which all members are required to contribute Bt1, or by applying their own life insurance death benefits.

Imho, that is a predatory lending practice and should not be allowed.  All lenders should be on a leash themselves.  Loan terms should be for a limited period of time at in interest rate that allows the borrower to service both the loan's interest and it's principle so the borrower has the ability to clear the loan in a reasonable amount of time as opposed to becoming a "Debt Slave" to predatory lending institutions.  But it seems that lending institutions actually are looking to make borrowers into life-long debt slaves by saddling individual borrowers with so much debt that it's impossible to pay off during a life-time, and can only be paid off though insurance policies at the time of the borrower's death?  That unconscionable!

Yes - the teachers need to repay their loans, but lenders need to be regulated and usurious, predatory lending practices need to end.  And this is essentially what the organized teachers are now saying -- restructure the loans so that the principle can be paid off and end predatory lending -- or else we stop repaying the loans.  And I agree with them.  They have the leverage to reform lending practices.   I wish them luck.

Edited July 30, 2018 by connda

[Tchooptip]

2 hours ago, nahkit said:

The fund is called the funeral fund because when you die the loan is paid off by the fund, got nothing to do with borrowing money for a big funeral.

I did not bother to answer this (wilfully?)  ignorance comment since the only goal was to try to make everyone laugh by ridicule all that is Thai?

[spidermike007]

9 minutes ago, kannot said:

They require neither, no more than anyone else and they certainly dont need a big "ferk off fortuna" I wonder how  many buy the smallest cheapest car??  and really whats the matter with a motorbike or even  incredibly ,two feet?

My point is, that teachers deserve what other have in society. A decent home and a nice car. Nothing fancy on either. Just adequate. And these days, an adequate car and house costs 4 million baht, in most communities. It is on the government to make the lives of teachers easier, not harder. And if they really do want to support the teachers, and education (which it is painfully obvious they do not) then they need to offer them better terms on loans. 5-7% interest is not a particularly great deal. The banks are still making a fortune on these loans. 

[bristolgeoff]

Is the loan about helping students and they  are the guarantee.if true it is nice to help but they put themselves in trouble.i would think twice before I do that if payment fails one time

[billd766]

4 hours ago, aircooledflat4 said:

^^ yeah but what if they default on the funeral fund? 

 

Then they will not be allowed to die.

[Tchooptip]

1 hour ago, Chassa said:

It's the culture, I have lent money to many Thai's, only got some back one time, and that was only part of that which was owed.

Don't lend no more!

I loaned 20,000 Baht to my DIL a year or two ago I can not remember. I never made her any request and a few days ago she returned them to my wife who told me, she is embarrassed to give them back to you because she thinks she should give you more for the interests.

Then it's the culture! Maybe? But not totally generalized

[billd766]

23 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

My point is, that teachers deserve what other have in society. A decent home and a nice car. Nothing fancy on either. Just adequate. And these days, an adequate car and house costs 4 million baht, in most communities. It is on the government to make the lives of teachers easier, not harder. And if they really do want to support the teachers, and education (which it is painfully obvious they do not) then they need to offer them better terms on loans. 5-7% interest is not a particularly great deal. The banks are still making a fortune on these loans. 

 

But millions of other people who are hard workers also need the same thing but don't have the same opportunity to borrow the money so easily and with few if any checks and balances. 

 

I agree that teachers deserve what others have, but then they should have to live and learn by the same principles that others HAVE to live by.

 

Part of the problem is that many teachers believe that they are more important than other people when in truth they are just the same. It is all about Face.

[TKDfella]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

So you advocate making thousands of children homeless?

The banks need to stop lending money to people who have not enough income to pay back.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, colinneil. It's so easy for them to get a loan from a fund (government hospitals have a fund too) and there is no thought on either party about the future. When families are involved the worry and complications double. If a proper analysis of a persons income Vs expenses was done in the first place then perhaps neither side would the problems now. When I go shopping sometimes (Tesco, Big C etc.) I see people I know buying trolley's full and I often wonder how they do it. The banks and funds encourage borrowing and they need to think about this thoroughly. No I don't suppose it will happen.

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, kannot said:

let me  guess, instead of a very cheap funeral at the temple  there was a  great big "<deleted>  off ,big face "  party with dancing girls and a massive sound stage, i mean what were u cremating ??? an entire  football team????

No, it was a top-of-the line Fortuner actually.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

[baansgr]

8 hours ago, kannot said:

let me  guess, instead of a very cheap funeral at the temple  there was a  great big "ferk  off ,big face "  party with dancing girls and a massive sound stage, i mean what were u cremating ??? an entire  football team????

No, it was spent on a new car, motorbikes for the kids, some gold, and other stuff they couldnt afford. 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

My point is, that teachers deserve what other have in society. A decent home and a nice car. Nothing fancy on either. Just adequate. And these days, an adequate car and house costs 4 million baht, in most communities. It is on the government to make the lives of teachers easier, not harder. And if they really do want to support the teachers, and education (which it is painfully obvious they do not) then they need to offer them better terms on loans. 5-7% interest is not a particularly great deal. The banks are still making a fortune on these loans. 

 

Not sure I agree with your sums, but I would they you can only spend so little.  A modest row house and reasonable second hand car could cost 1.5 million.  I expect some were already hooked up to unwise debt.  It sounds like this scheme was like a consolidated loan.

 

No doubt in my mind this is a predatory scheme, because there does not appear to be a satisfactory way of paying down the principle sum.

 

I don't think they are calling for a write down as such.  Just something that might be considered fair- some reasonable way of paying it back.  Looks like a loan shark might have given them a better deal.

 

 

 

 

[CanuckThai]

It seems easy for  people to accept these numbers as "an unfortunate decision".  Perspective is important here.  Would a bank in our home country give a salaried employee making 40K ($ or GBP, or Euro) per year,  and approve a 1-3 million ($ or GBP or Euro) loan with no collateral....  Amazing Thailand

[mommysboy]

58 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

But millions of other people who are hard workers also need the same thing but don't have the same opportunity to borrow the money so easily and with few if any checks and balances. 

 

I agree that teachers deserve what others have, but then they should have to live and learn by the same principles that others HAVE to live by.

 

Part of the problem is that many teachers believe that they are more important than other people when in truth they are just the same. It is all about Face.

That said- and what you write is absolutely true imo- this is an awful scheme that should be voided, though that should not free the teachers from their responsibility to pay back the principle sum.

 

 

[marqus12]

The only reasonable help is to allow bankruptcy and loss of all assets
to those who are on the edge !

[hotchilli]

No sympathy, they took on the loan understanding the repayment terms & conditions..

Make them pay!

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

No sympathy, they took on the loan understanding the repayment terms & conditions..

Make them pay!

No, imo there is also responsibility on the institutions- backed by the government- that hooked them in to this awful scheme.  This terrible scam needs to be converted in to something that resembles a conventional loan.  Where large property is involved, a condition should also be made that it be must be sold.  Neither side should just be let off.

[utalkin2me]

4 hours ago, mstevens said:

And then everyone who has money in the bank would find that when they went to make a withdrawal there was nothing there.  They would have no money to buy anything and society would fall over.  If you borrow money to buy things like fancy cars or high-end iPhones and you cannot pay that money back you should be ashamed of yourself.  Personal responsibility should be taken more seriously.

I am responsible, if I owe my neighbor or another human. Modern day slave holders not so much.

 

How am i not responsible anyway? Both parties knew going in that default was a possibility. This happens in life. 

 

It is people like you who perpetuate some of the largest problems our societies have. I am the bad guy, and not the banks. That is a good one. 

 

So, your scenario I have already answered. Banks already went bust in the US. But everybody still has all their money don't they? There goes your theory. 

 

You can play holier than thou all you want, it is easy on the internet. The truth is what happens with debt when it defaults is it goes to collectors who pay pennies on the dollar for it. So, what do you think I can now get away with paying an entity who just bought my debt for 15% of its worth?! 

Edited July 30, 2018 by utalkin2me

[utalkin2me]

24 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

That said- and what you write is absolutely true imo- this is an awful scheme that should be voided, though that should not free the teachers from their responsibility to pay back the principle sum.

 

 

No need to free them. They need to free themselves. 

 

The criminals in my opinion are the people who are gullible enough to spread the banks own guilt trip mentality to defaulters. 

 

This is all a game, that is what people do not get. It is a huge game. The corporations have gotten the people to do their dirty work for them, and manipulated the general public into shaming others who don't pay their debts. That is the crime in my opinion; citizens turning on each other and refusing to recognize the real enemy. 

 

Debt is a joke. I habe first hand experience. What can they do? Call me, knock on my door? Be my guest dirtbags. I am here, I will play you at your own games. If more people would join me we just may have a fighting chance. As it stands now the entire society is manipulated through credit scores and similar avenues. 

 

THis is a fact I wish were broadcast across the world: the govt you do have to pay back or you are screwed. Any "company" you don't. Screw em. They knew the risks when they signed up. They loaned money and knew you may not be able to pay. The thing that kills me is when someone who can't pay does not, then they are shamed. It is a joke, stick your shaming up your backside... shame yourself if you want but not others.

 

There is no shame in bending over a credit card company. People that hand them back a piece of their ass are heros as far as i am concerened.

Edited July 30, 2018 by utalkin2me

[natway09]

And we entrust our children to their care ?

A classic case of why Thailand is in a bunch of trouble.

What should be be a rational & trusted portion of the community act in a total unresponsible manner 

by just keep borrowing with no regard to the consequences of paying back & then cry foul & expect the 

rest of the community to bail them out.

Lets start a mandatory "budgeting school" for teachers... Oh, the irony

[The Teacher]

Sounds like sour grapes to me, maybe some pollies are missing out on their extra slice of the pie, so to speak........... 

[billd766]

28 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

That said- and what you write is absolutely true imo- this is an awful scheme that should be voided, though that should not free the teachers from their responsibility to pay back the principle sum.

 

 

 

Absolutely,

 

But the problem is that they are so over extended they cannot afford to pay it back during their lifetime.

 

Meanwhile who WILL repay the money? 

 

The banks and loan associations cannot afford to write it off and neither can the government.

[cmsally]

Have to wonder what has been going on!

Looking at GSB - Housing Loans

 

it says repayment period not to extend after those taking loan are over 65yrs.

This doesn't really seem to be the case, so what has been going on ??

 

[utalkin2me]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Absolutely,

 

But the problem is that they are so over extended they cannot afford to pay it back during their lifetime.

 

Meanwhile who WILL repay the money? 

 

The banks and loan associations cannot afford to write it off and neither can the government.

THe banks can't afford to write it off? If all the teachers defaulted the banks would be fine. That proves they can more than afford it. THat is the entire point, the rich bloodsucking scum who have been draining the populations for decades can afford it a million times over. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by utalkin2me

[Searat7]

There is a credit bureau in Thailand if I am not mistaken so banks should be able to assess one’s ability to make loan payments prior to extending additional loans. I blame the banks and debtors equally for creating a very bad situation 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It would take a detective better than Sherlock Holmes to decipher just what's going on with all the supposed facts and details laid out in the OP news report. A total mess....

 

But one detail in the second news report did catch my eye and cause me to wonder:

 

Quote

 

He initially did not expect the funeral help loan project to become a big burden because at the time he applied for assistance, the interest rate was only 3 per cent per annum.

 

“But now the interest rate has increased to 8 per cent,” he complained.

 

 

That kind of interest rate hike, though the article didn't explain over what period of time that increase occurred, certainly would be enough to put a dent in most people's budgets.

 

Overall though, perhaps it's past due time for the Thai education bureaucracy to include some basic financial literacy education in their curriculum -- for both students and the teachers.  Because clearly, it's sorely lacking in much of Thai society.  Spend now, and don't think about tomorrow.