Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[AdamTheFarang]

2 hours ago, skorchio said:

Currency has a bit to do with this. How many old fart Brits have seen their monthly 1500 quid, on which they lived like a sexpat king, reduce their living standards to 711 beers only and haggling the price of motorbike taxis. 72 baht to the pound when I bought my first condo, now 42 baht. Thats a kick in the balls for anyone. Inflation in Thailand has not been stalled in the last 10 years as it has been in the Europe, Japan and the US.

Hope you still have that condo.....if so now might be a good time to sell?

[LivinLOS]

51 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I'm a little suspicion of their calculations though as I don't see how it is cheaper to buy clothes in the UK than it is in Thailand.

 

Yeah it is.. Especially sports wear brands, casual wear, name brand high street stuff.. I end up coming 'home' to Thailand with full suitcases every time.. My wife loves our trips to buy quality stuff, the things that last a few years.. 

For me also.. Thai size doesnt cut it.. 192cm size 46/47 feet.. Shopping is a hassle here.. 

Now in mainland europe that doesnt seem to be the case.. My UK home shopping is much cheaper than my continental home shopping. 

[AdamTheFarang]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I live in a fairly new 3 bedroom detached house 10Km from Chiang Mai in a gated community.

My mortgage repayments are 11k/month, utils and internet 2k5. Leaving me 15k5/month for food and drink.

Splashed out on breakfast in town with a pal today, 65bht for scrambled egg, bacon, toast, banana and a hot Latte

(Nana Cafe Santhitham breakfast #1).

I might walk round for a swim in the pool (next soi) this afternoon, 20bht, then I'll buy 3x wine coolers in the 'mom & pop' store on the way back (3x 30bht).

 

I don't know, how do all you retired guys spend so much money in a month?

You cannot legally buy a house in Thailand so what are you paying your "mortgage" for? 

[bannork]

2 hours ago, skorchio said:

Currency has a bit to do with this. How many old fart Brits have seen their monthly 1500 quid, on which they lived like a sexpat king, reduce their living standards to 711 beers only and haggling the price of motorbike taxis. 72 baht to the pound when I bought my first condo, now 42 baht. Thats a kick in the balls for anyone. Inflation in Thailand has not been stalled in the last 10 years as it has been in the Europe, Japan and the US.

Peope don't seem to realize 72 baht to the pound was a direct result of the Tom Yam Kung crisis and things soon reverted to previous levels. For example when the Thai baht was almost fixed in the so called basket against the dollar back in the late 1980s and early 90s  it was only between 35 to 40  baht a pound. Only after it crashed in 1997  did it reach staggering levels of 70 plus baht to the pound. And as the Thai economy recovered, so the baht improved continuously. Post Brexit we may see increasing pressure on the pound to weaken further.

Perhaps 20 baht to the pound by 2020.

Edited August 4, 2018 by bannork

[tropo]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:29 PM, DrTuner said:

It could be as simple as Thailand not being fun anymore. Better pastures elsewhere.

I'm sure that applies to sex tourism. Far less ("fewer" for the language police) sexpats find the prices reasonable than say 10 years ago. I'm sure that has a big influence on Western expat numbers. If expats want pristine white sandy beaches and personal safety is important, they can do far better than Thailand.

 

"Flooding" by Indian, Chinese and Middle Eastern (and a few years ago - Russian) markets doesn't help at all, for reasons I won't expand upon. People do prefer to retire among their own kind. True Farang-Thai friendship is a myth, or at the very least, a rarity.

[bkk6060]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I live in a fairly new 3 bedroom detached house 10Km from Chiang Mai in a gated community.

My mortgage repayments are 11k/month, utils and internet 2k5. Leaving me 15k5/month for food and drink.

Splashed out on breakfast in town with a pal today, 65bht for scrambled egg, bacon, toast, banana and a hot Latte

(Nana Cafe Santhitham breakfast #1).

I might walk round for a swim in the pool (next soi) this afternoon, 20bht, then I'll buy 3x wine coolers in the 'mom & pop' store on the way back (3x 30bht).

 

I don't know, how do all you retired guys spend so much money in a month?

I spend much more.

Got lucky with a government position in the states for over 30 years.

Not meant to be a put down but I think it is the old saying: if you have it, you will spend it. Doing things like playing golf 3 days a week adds up quickly.

[AdamTheFarang]

13 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The way the UK systems are everything is provided on return.. 

My 67 y/o mum as a full time mum and housewife has no pension, no NI contribution, etc.. If she was to come to Thailand she would get zero monthly.. In the UK she has housing paid (beautiful 2 bed country cottage with a garden with a river at the end of the lawn.. 500m path from a supermarket, etc etc) her council taxes are paid.. her TV license is paid.. Her medical is paid.. And checks come through the post every 2 weeks. 

I am not saying its a kings ransom, but with maybe a 100 or two from me or my brother a month and she has everything she needs provided for in a stunning coastal village / town in devon 2 miles from long beaches. This isnt some inner city slum bedsit lifestyle, its properly lovely there.

Cost of living is sort of irrelevant when its all provided for you. 

That is what is wrong with Britain too many scroungers who expect the state to pay for everything......Why did she not pay tax or NI? Is she disabled? Is she proud scrounging having never worked, No NI etc Might sound harse but there are real disabled people both physically and/or mentally that need the money more. I worked hard for my money and have pride. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by AdamTheFarang

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, AdamTheFarang said:

That is what is wrong with Britain too many scroungers who expect the state to pay for everything......Why did she not pay tax or NI? Is she disabled or just lazy? 

Single income family.. Full time mother all her life. Never claimed benefits during working age and did deal with disability even with it.. but over 65 then is old aged pension. 

People keep comparing cost of livings as tho its like for like.. Without factoring in that in the west theres a system for supporting over 65s. 

[AdamTheFarang]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Single income family.. Full time mother all her life. Never claimed benefits during working age and did deal with disability even with it.. but over 65 then is old aged pension. 

People keep comparing cost of livings as tho its like for like.. Without factoring in that in the west theres a system for supporting over 65s. 

There are plenty of single parents who work what a weak excuse. Kids go to school what did she do at that time? If she is 67 did she take care of "kids" for 49 years from 18 to 67?

Edited August 4, 2018 by AdamTheFarang

[LivinLOS]

6 minutes ago, AdamTheFarang said:

There are plenty of single parents who work what a weak excuse. Kids go to school what did she do at that time? If she is 67 did she take care of "kids" for 49 years from 18 to 67?

single income family.. My old man worked.. No need for more money.. 

She volunteered with her time.. 

They whys of it dont really come into it.. The point is western countries, even moreso in some of Europe, have a system of pensions for the elderly. Comparing cost of living when one is entirely funded is not like for like. 
 

Edited August 4, 2018 by LivinLOS

[AdamTheFarang]

3 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

single income family.. My old man worked.. No need for more money.. 

 

That's more understandable then but you must remember a far higher percentage of Thais compared to Brits do not pay tax therefore the government has less income and can give less out. Thais rely on family not the government for financial support. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by AdamTheFarang

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, AdamTheFarang said:

That's more understandable then but you must remember a far higher percentage of Thais compared to Brits do not pay tax therefore the government has less income and can give less out. Thais rely on family not the government for financial support. 

Thais might do.. But thats the very point I am making. 

We are talking about cost of living for retirees in Thailand v the west.. And why people might return to the west. 

Saying 'its more expensive back there' isnt really relevant when society meets that expense, housing, medical, pension, etc... Here society doesnt meet any expense. Even for its own citizens let alone non Thais, were UK would meet it for resident Thais (if my wife came back for example). 

I am considering bringing my mother over to live here, for her to be nearer to me, but then I will have to provide her needs. Just hard when I dont want to be full time here, so lots of considerations. 

[AdamTheFarang]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Thais might do.. But thats the very point I am making. 

We are talking about cost of living for retirees in Thailand v the west.. And why people might return to the west. 

Saying 'its more expensive back there' isnt really relevant when society meets that expense, housing, medical, pension, etc... Here society doesnt meet any expense. Even for its own citizens let alone non Thais, were UK would meet it for resident Thais (if my wife came back for example). 

I am considering bringing my mother over to live here, for her to be nearer to me, but then I will have to provide her needs. Just hard when I dont want to be full time here, so lots of considerations. 

Think carefully about potential medical costs for your mother and you and your family in Thailand. I always kept Bupa Global. 

[LivinLOS]

3 minutes ago, AdamTheFarang said:

Think carefully about potential medical costs for your mother and you and your family in Thailand. I always kept Bupa Global. 

All known knowns, and why the west is a better fit for her.. Almost certainly cheaper..

But shes alone, and getting older.. Money isnt that important in the scheme of things. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Single income family.. Full time mother all her life. Never claimed benefits during working age and did deal with disability even with it.. but over 65 then is old aged pension. 

She would have got 19 years NI payments for having a child (back then).

"Since 1978, if you spent time at home to raise children – and received child benefit – your National Insurance record has been protected and you are entitled to the same state pension that you would have received had you been in work."

 

"The Government has launched a “beta” (or trial) website that allows you to see your National Insurance record in full.

However, if you are past the state pension age you will need to ring the Department for Work & Pensions on 0800 731 7898.

You should cross-reference the official record against your history, noting the years you were raising children, then send form CF411 to correct any mistakes (it can be submitted either online or through the post)."

 

The NI payments for women staying at home to raise children are limited to 19 years.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/financial-planning/are-you-among-the-stay-at-home-mums-missing-500m-of-state-pensio/

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by BritManToo

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

She would have got 19 years NI payments for having a child (back then).

Dont think thats how it worked... 

 

Certainly when it was pension time she doesnt get a state pension.. She does get some age related income support ?? Which she cannot get if she leaves the UK I understood..  But I will check out her NI record when I am back. 
 

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Dont think thats how it worked... 

Certainly when it was pension time she doesnt get a state pension.. She does get some age related income support ?? Which she cannot get if she leaves the UK I understood..  But I will check out her NI record when I am back. 
 

6

If you read the link, it says the child benefit computer and state pension computer are not cross-linked.

You have to ask. (my former wife claimed them for having a child in 1985 and staying at home for the next 19 years, the NI credits were available to all mothers at home with a child between 1978 and 2010)

If she didn't claim child benefit, she may have a problem (every mother was entitled to claim child benefit).

Edited August 4, 2018 by BritManToo

[rumak]

On 8/2/2018 at 9:28 PM, melvinmelvin said:

  On 8/2/2018 at 8:34 PM, Fex Bluse said:

This is true. What is funny though is that those cheaper Indians and Filipinos and Thais are generally not equal to Westerners. I know it sounds arrogant but it's true in my view. 

 

But, what many expats never realized until late is that Thais don't care about quality or excellence. They are happy with "good enough", so there really is no motivation to pay for quality people. The entire country is built around incompetence and mediocrity. No place for talented people. 

YES, its true !  Westerners that I have to deal with here are definitely more ARRROGANT than the Thais that i deal with !!   I have over 20 years experience here and i love it when some westerner comes to

live here and within a year starts telling me how things work here.  

Yesterday I had a self taught electrician come to look at the magnetic sensor device that was installed

for automatically turning lights on at dusk.  Lots of slots and wires.....took him about 5 minutes to 

explain and fix the problem.   He was kinda shy about asking for 150 baht .... Yep, i guess you would

call that incompetence and mediocrity .  I know what you'll say:   there are exceptions.  You're right.

I think I met one westerner here who admitted he did not know it all.   

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Thais might do.. But thats the very point I am making. 

We are talking about cost of living for retirees in Thailand v the west.. And why people might return to the west. 

Saying 'its more expensive back there' isnt really relevant when society meets that expense, housing, medical, pension, etc... Here society doesnt meet any expense. Even for its own citizens let alone non Thais, were UK would meet it for resident Thais (if my wife came back for example). 

I am considering bringing my mother over to live here, for her to be nearer to me, but then I will have to provide her needs. Just hard when I dont want to be full time here, so lots of considerations. 

??

"The west" is also the US.

Here I pay less then $200 a month for a very good medical plan.  There over $1000.

Housing in California  $1500 a month for an ok apt.  Here $500 for an ocean view.

Food here is much less.

Internet and cable TV in my room about $30 a month.  There $150 +.

And lets talk about some fun with girls.  Not even close.

Thailand for me is much less expensive.  About 1/3 rd as what I was paying in California.

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

??

"The west" is also the US.

Here I pay less then $200 a month for a very good medical plan.  There over $1000.

Housing in California  $1500 a month for an ok apt.  Here $500 for an ocean view.

Food here is much less.

Internet and cable TV in my room about $30 a month.  There $150 +.

And lets talk about some fun with girls.  Not even close.

Thailand for me is much less expensive.  About 1/3 rd as what I was paying in California.

 

Thailand is 100% perfect for you.    You're the kind of person sought to live here by the authorities.

 

Enjoy  the rest of your life here.

 

[Kerryd]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

YES, its true !  Westerners that I have to deal with here are definitely more ARRROGANT than the Thais that i deal with !!   I have over 20 years experience here and i love it when some westerner comes to

live here and within a year starts telling me how things work here.  

Yesterday I had a self taught electrician come to look at the magnetic sensor device that was installed

for automatically turning lights on at dusk.  Lots of slots and wires.....took him about 5 minutes to 

explain and fix the problem.   He was kinda shy about asking for 150 baht .... Yep, i guess you would

call that incompetence and mediocrity .  I know what you'll say:   there are exceptions.  You're right.

I think I met one westerner here who admitted he did not know it all.   

And I had a "self taught" electrician show up at my house to wire in a new water pump. His method was to connect one wire and see if that turned the pump on. If not, unhook it and try the next wire. He finally gave up on the float valve in the tank and just removed it as he couldn't figure out how to connect it to the pump the way it had been with the old pump.

Every time I showed him the wiring diagram, he'd look at it for a couple seconds, flip it upside down, look at it again and then just put it aside and go back to connecting random wires until finally the pump kicked in and that was it.
The pump never did work right and finally burnt out a couple months later. 

Had another guy in to fix a problem with my main fuse box. One of the original fuses (some crappy made in China piece of junk) was shorting out. This guy sets a metal step against the wall, stands on it bare footed and starts pulling live wires out of the circuit breakers. I told him to shut the main breaker off, or even disconnect it from the meter at the pole outside for safety's sake but he couldn't be bothered.
I was so sure he was going to electrocute himself that I was standing a safe distance away and already had the number for the Sawang Boriboon punched into the phone.

The circuit breaker literally fell apart in pieces when he removed it and then he just started to reconnect the live wires by holding the 220v "live" wire with a pair of pliers and the new circuit breaker in the other hand. 
And you wonder why so many "self taught" electricians end up getting electrocuted in this country.

Or they do things like this:

[AdamTheFarang]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

All known knowns, and why the west is a better fit for her.. Almost certainly cheaper..

But shes alone, and getting older.. Money isnt that important in the scheme of things. 

67 is not old my Mum come from the UK to Australia at 76 and travelled around!

[AdamTheFarang]

The GPS tracking and compulsory insurance.....enough said.

[holy cow cm]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 7:52 AM, smutcakes said:

There is nothing to stop you having a 100% foreign owned business in Thailand and operating normally. If you want to own land in Thailand, other than a couple of exceptions then you need to have more than 50% Thai owned.

 

Your post is just one example of someone with very limited knowledge on company ownership etc starts spreading misinformation to other uninformed persons.

 

You can be a citizen here if you qualify as i am sure a number of people on TVF already are, i am currently in the process of doing so.  Its a process with requirements, if you meet those requirements you will be granted citizenship, if you don't you will not. Same as any country.

I am well aware of all for here, had my own business selling to retail here. I am even American and could own under the amity treaty. Just there are many idiotic restrictions for foreigners here. As for citizenship, sorry, it is totally unfair so please don't get on to a high horse about how it is possible. For the moral majority it is not reachable, and should be as we should be allowed to apply and get it based under family. 

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Here I pay less then $200 a month for a very good medical plan. 

Medical plans are an American obsession, nobody in the rest of the world cares all that much.

Edited August 4, 2018 by BritManToo

[naboo]

I question the validity of the survey. 

 

ThaiVisa was the source of information for anyone coming to Thailand, but as time has passed other sources of information on Facebook, Reddit etc have become available. These are more inbuilt into the online worlds of young people, so perhaps the reason for the increase in average age from 50 to 60 is just a result of the changing demographics of this website, not Thailand.

[AdamTheFarang]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Medical plans are an American obsession, nobody in the rest of the world cares all that much.

Sure try saying that when you are asked for 1M Baht after a bad accident or you can't leave the hospital. Actually thinking about it those stories have calmed down now............

[smutcakes]

15 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

I am well aware of all for here, had my own business selling to retail here. I am even American and could own under the amity treaty. Just there are many idiotic restrictions for foreigners here. As for citizenship, sorry, it is totally unfair so please don't get on to a high horse about how it is possible. For the moral majority it is not reachable, and should be as we should be allowed to apply and get it based under family. 

You can get it under marriage and family.

If you know all about the business, why did you say in your post you have to have majority Thai ownership, which is simply incorrect?

Edited August 4, 2018 by smutcakes

[suzannegoh]

I'm glad to see that we all agree that Thailand today is a better place than ever before.

 

 

[jimster]

On 8/3/2018 at 4:08 PM, melvinmelvin said:

 

you need a course in statistics and sampling, 1400 is quite adequate

 

1400 out of 250,000 is not adequate enough. Imagine asking 14 people out of 2500 and then telling your audience they represent the views of the other 2486 people. It's not a large enough sample size. If there were only 2000 expats in total living in Thailand, then of course 1400 would be more than adequate. Not sure where you went to school, but it looks like you that needs a refresher course in statistics.