UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

This should be interesting 

 

 

 

This is the precursor to a move towards a people's vote. If May's plan gets through then Brexit is safe and sound, but if it gets rejected I believe that people will vote against Brexit, and a document like this will help to seal the deal. 

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

????.......But, my reply was to a bloke who reckons retirees who paid into the UK system all their life are a UK burden when foreign folk walk in and it is OK to milk the system when they haven't.....

I didn't see that comment ... 

[tebee]

1 minute ago, transam said:

????.......But, my reply was to a bloke who reckons retirees who paid into the UK system all their life are a UK burden when foreign folk walk in and it is OK to milk the system when they haven't.....

But UK people can walk in and use the health system in all EU countries, it's a reciprocal right  - I use the French one personally.

 

My point is at moment UK retirees can get free/low cost  treatment  in all the EU. Post hard Brexit if they get a major illness and cannot afford private insurance they will need to return to the UK and the NHS will have to treat them. 

[melvinmelvin]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

So the foreigners in the UK ain't milking the NHS, not a burden....Good grief....????

 

you must distinguish between shait and sheit

 

there are a bunch of reciprocal agreements  in place in Europe re health care

(not EU stuff)

if I go to UK and fall ill,

I will have the same rights vis a vis NHS as the average jock

 

 

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

 

So what, you reckon retirees are a burden when they paid their lifelong dues....????

I'm just trying to point out that the NHS will be considerably worse off post Brexit. 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, transam said:

I was just thinking....

 

 

 

 

 

funny? missed that completely, joking and sarcasm in foreign tongues is tricky

 

whopper from have it your way,

launched in 1957 - likely stale by now - don't indulge

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

But UK people can walk in and use the health system in all EU countries, it's a reciprocal right  - I use the French one personally.

 

My point is at moment UK retirees can get free/low cost  treatment  in all the EU. Post hard Brexit if they get a major illness and cannot afford private insurance they will need to return to the UK and the NHS will have to treat them. 

You do know that the British Gov pays the French to the tune of £250 million a year for the privilege of you and other expats of course to receive healthcare in France. 

[tebee]

Just now, vogie said:

You do know that the British Gov pays the French to the tune of £250 million a year for the privilege of you and other expats of course to receive healthcare in France. 

No I get my French health care because I have worked in France and contributed to the French system. It's the retirees who have never worked here the UK government  pays for.

Same for any French retirees who move to the UK - the French gov will pay their healthcare.  

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

right have heard (or seen) similar coughs from Corbyn Inc Co

 

but,

where is the formal link between voting down the deal in parliament and organizing a people's vote?

IF the deal is approved by parliament there will NOT be a people's vote

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, tebee said:

No I get my French health care because I have worked in France and contributed to the French system. It's the retirees who have never worked here the UK government  pays for.

Same for any French retirees who move to the UK - the French gov will pay their healthcare.  

I thought the point that you were making is that the NHS will be worse off after brexit, how can this be so if that £250 million is going back into the NHS coffers.

I am not sure how much the French pays the UK Government, but I read a while ago that it is a lot less than the UK pays. 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

What does NF's kids dual nationality have anything to do with anything. Pathetic. Graham Hughes needs a good reality check, and to grow up, like most of his counterparts.

 

Why anyone of these whingers believe that they or anyone else can't apply for a work, tourist or retirement visa in EU nations and receive it without issue is beyond me. Operating from a point of such crazy entitlement too. It's indicative of the attitude of so many people today.

 

So, because someone is dual national and their advantages are coveted by others, does this mean that all people who are not dual national should be entitled to the same benefits? Marry and have kids with a foreign national if you want your kids to have these advantages granted to them as 'rights', OR alternatively, apply for a visa like you would anywhere else in the world. Unfuckingbelievable.

 

We already have the right to live and work anywhere in the EU. How DARE Brexteer fools try to take our rights away.

 

I will not use the F word but he is a despicable, cynical bastard.

[tebee]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

...

I am not sure how much the French pays the UK Government, but I read a while ago that it is a lot less than the UK pays. 

That is because a lot less French people retire to the UK than UK people retire to France 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

But his children would in any case, they're half German! One parent is a German national.

There are simply more pressing issues and reasons for leaving (I'm sure you'll disagree, bu there you go) that take precedence over and above your kids, my kids or anyone else's, having the automatic 'right' to live/work in an EU nation. If that is something you or they or anyone else would like to do, they can follow the procedures and apply for a relevant visa and if in the country long enough can apply for citizenship as used to happen often and still does with anyone outside of the EU coming to the UK or vise versa, Thailand included. If you want to guarantee these dual national rights for your progeny forever more, then marry / impregnate a foreign lady. ????

 

What nonsense

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

That is because a lot less French people retire to the UK than UK people retire to France 

 

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

I thought the point that you were making is that the NHS will be worse off after brexit, how can this be so if that £250 million is going back into the NHS coffers.

I am not sure how much the French pays the UK Government, but I read a while ago that it is a lot less than the UK pays. 

 

You don't want to reply to the actual main point of my post?

[Chelseafan]

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

Difficult for the over-65's to come out in even more force; after all, turnout in that age group was 90% in 2016. Bearing in mind that, according to Alzheimer's UK, over 7% of over-65's suffer from dementia, the turnout was effectively 97%. Unless, of course.......

 

Disclaimer: before anyone applies 'Brexit Logic' to this post, I am not saying, nor even implying, that all Leave voters were or are demented.

90%, your joshing right.....

[Chelseafan]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

This is the precursor to a move towards a people's vote. If May's plan gets through then Brexit is safe and sound, but if it gets rejected I believe that people will vote against Brexit, and a document like this will help to seal the deal. 

It's been her plan all along....get a deal so bad that she'll be forced "reluctantly" to hold another "peoples vote" with a ballot that says "accept her deal" or "call it off" Her hope of course being that we see the error of our ways and vote to stay in.

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

As I understand, freedom of movement is one of the key issues, one of the first freedoms that Farage would like to take away.

YES! OUR freedom of movement 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I don't really see why. So because he wants the UK to leave the EU his offspring cannot or should not take advantage of their mother's heritage? 

 

It has nothing to do with the reasons for leaving the EU. His kids are simply lucky that they are dual national - like mine is, as are my cousins. I envy their dual nationality, but again is it reason enough to stay in the EU ?  It is undoubtedly the biggest (for me the only tangible) pro of remaining in the EU - the ability to travel and work visa-free, but is it worth the multitude of cons that go along with it? Not a chance, especially when you can apply for a visa and (depending on certain criteria being fulfilled) can experience the same benefits in most regards. I imagined you'd agree with this Dick, judging by your record on here? 

Utter BS

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Leaving the single market is what advocates he and what 17.4m voted for, 'depriving others' of a right that has only existed since Maastricht isn't the right way to phrase it. The argument for leaving the single market / customs and allowing unchecked free movement of people in is much more profoundly important than Brits being able to travel and work on the continent - visa free. They will still continue to of course, simply WITH A VISA.

 

You could argue that it is all very well for Farage to talk about restricting others' and their children's rights abroad when his children are dual national , but this is simply an accident of fate - THEY ARE DUAL NATIONAL by their very heritage and that's it. Unless the sole reason he courted, married and impregnated his fraulein was to ensure dual national offspring, I think he should be given a break on this issue. After all, anyone else can do the same as he has now (before) OR after Brexit occurs, it's not a rich man's prerogative, literally anyone can do it for their children. I have, for one.

You really don't get it do you. I can see now why you are not cantab

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

The 2 organisation are the existing NATO forces and the EU wannabe military force, if it ever happens

 

Many EU countries are already in NATO, and the EU itself isn't a country anyway

To be honest Bill the so called "EU wannabe military force" is nothing more than anti EU propaganda, unless of course you have a source to a definitive proposal to create a separate EU military force. It is not uncommon for politicians to get their words the wrong way round and send everybody off at a tangent.

 

“The path we have taken leads step by step to an ‘army of Europeans’. [That means] military forces that remain national responsibilities, but that are closely linked, uniformly equipped, and trained and ready for joint operations,” Ursula von der Leyen, the German defence minister, wrote in an opinion piece for the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung at the weekend. 

Ms von der Leyen and other EU politicians have also stressed that the push for better-funded and better-aligned European militaries is intended to bolster Nato, not weaken it. Nato’s primacy in European collective defence is even clearer than before, as the western alliance has edged back from deployments elsewhere in the world to focus more on dealing with Russia. 
https://www.ft.com/content/272daf9a-ec49-11e8-89c8-d36339d835c0

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

YES! OUR freedom of movement 

On the bright side, although it’s the first, it won’t be the last, or the most important.

First, you separate your victims. Then you make them distrust, then fear, then hate their neighbours who could help them.  It works for child abusers, for mufti’s, and it will work for Farage, if we let him.

[tebee]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

 

You don't want to reply to the actual main point of my post?

No just picking off the easy one first - have to go out and work now !

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I doubt any plans of "retiring in Europe" are "screwed up now".

 

As long as they're not working and genuinely retired - I'm pretty sure they'll be fine.

Do you know nothing?

 

How much does one have to keep in the bank to retire in Thailand? Do you think the average retiree on the costas has that in the bank? What would be to retire to Germany???

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, Grouse said:

YES! OUR freedom of movement 

I know I will regret asking this, but how can Nigel Farage affect your freedom of movement?

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Has he or his family expressed any interest in living in Germany?

 

So why apply for dual nationality now?

It’s already been said, perhaps his wife made that decision.

If he made it, so what.

I obtained a British passport for my children,within days of their birth. At the time I had no intention of returning to the U.K. And I bet,that’s what most farang do in Thailand, when they have an offspring with a non Brit.

 I also knew of instances with some children at the international school who had 4 Passports. Example British,Australian, USA, and Thai.

 

 

[SheungWan]

On 11/19/2018 at 12:07 PM, vogie said:

I would pick them anytime over Juncker, Verhofstadt et al.

 

On 11/19/2018 at 12:39 PM, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Yup. No brainer! 

No Brains opining on No Brainers.

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

A lot of people fancied the idea of retiring in Europe, that’s screwed up now ... I don’t think holiday plans were ever the issue.

I did watch a couple of Interveiws with University students, who were adamant that should we exit the E.u. that would automatically curtail their ability to go on holiday to Europe.

 

Likewise we’ve had all these scare stories, that planes would not be able to fly between The U.K. and Europe.

 Well not so according to the Swedish born  CEO of Easyjet. Who within the last 30mins has come out and stated on BBC news. That he is 100% that eventually will never occur.

[SheungWan]

26 minutes ago, vogie said:

I know I will regret asking this, but how can Nigel Farage affect your freedom of movement?

Hard Brexiteer sings "Je Ne Regrette Rien". Panto season starts early.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

I did watch a couple of Interveiws with University students, who were adamant that should we exit the E.u. that would automatically curtail their ability to go on holiday to Europe.

You should have told them that Hard Brexiteers had no intention of having a border in N.Ireland and so walking tour to Dublin recommended.

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

No Brains opining on No Brainers.

No brains whining on.