UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[nauseus]

 

          Fantasy Farage ,  the pied piper leading  the fools. Remember the good old  days ,  Gbp, 45 baht . 

              Any one looked at the recent 5 year forecast for Gbp, not looking pretty.

Good ol days were 70+ but you may have missed them. 

[nauseus]

 

You are perfectly free to believe that the wonder woman single handedly brought the EU debt estimate down from the 100 billion mark to the 39 figure.

She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest.

I must admit you have lost me there!

[nauseus]

 

Pwllheli...?

Bless you!

[sandyf]

 

27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

And they didn't just vote for brexit, they voted that 100% of the population face the cost of brexit.

[dick dasterdly]

 

You are perfectly free to believe that the wonder woman single handedly brought the EU debt estimate down from the 100 billion mark to the 39 figure.

She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest.

"She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest."

 

Please elaborate as I'm sure we'd all (remainers and brexiters alike) like to know about her self-interest in fending off any talk on refunds.

[dick dasterdly]

Duplicate post....

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[nauseus]

 

I don't think a Brexier in charge of Brexit would have delivered a better Brexit - a different Brexit true, but one that would have been just as divisive and bad for the country albeit in different ways. 

 

Firstly, I don't think there is a "good" brexit out there to be had - if you take a hammer to our highly interdependent and cross-connected  society you will break things with unexpected consequences. Any Brexit will break things and make life  more complicated for businesses and people in general. No one can agree how much needs to be broken and how much the associated extra costs are worth the pain.  No one Brexit plan will command the support of the majority of people who want brexit.

 

Secondly the Brexiters as a whole(by this I mean the politicians who support brexit, not their followers) seem to be stupid, lazy and incompetent, though the relative proportions of these virtues may vary between individuals.  We " have had enough of experts" eh?  There is a reason we have experts. They understand how things work. This lot seem to have no idea how the modern world works and no interest in learning about it. To give but one example. There is all this talk about the wonderful new trade deals we will have. Anybody who knows anything about trade will tell you it is not tariffs that stifle trade these days, but non-tariff barriers   - the SM got rid of these, that is why it facilitates trade so well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you just don't want to consider that a better settlement might have been possible? 

[dick dasterdly]

Thai visa is playing up again - so another pretty much duplicate post....

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[sandyf]

 

I must admit you have lost me there!

At the time the media was shouting 100 Billion, I saw a discussion programme with financial analysts including the EU, and what the media was reporting was the debt figure, when the refunds were calculated and taken into account the final figure was likely to fall between 25 and 50 billion.

I never saw TM answer any question on the refunds always sidestepped, obviously better to keep the people in the dark, looks good when you can say you got it down from 100 to 39.

[adammike]

 

Pwllheli...?

Near Holywell Flintshire.

[vinny41]

 

And they didn't just vote for brexit, they voted that 100% of the population face the cost of brexit.

And even Less people voted for remain and they expected 100% of the population to face the cost of EU membership like they have done for the past 45 years

[elliss]

 

Good ol days were 70+ but you may have missed them. 

yep ,  missed  em days  mate , 

 68 bht i remember, i was i having the time of my life in LOS , those  were the days .555

[adammike]

 

As your focus on numbers Remember that less people voted for Remain

It's ok for the brexiteers to claim it's the will of the people but not ok to have a peoples vote.

[dick dasterdly]

 

At the time the media was shouting 100 Billion, I saw a discussion programme with financial analysts including the EU, and what the media was reporting was the debt figure, when the refunds were calculated and taken into account the final figure was likely to fall between 25 and 50 billion.

I never saw TM answer any question on the refunds always sidestepped, obviously better to keep the people in the dark, looks good when you can say you got it down from 100 to 39.

It should be zero....  There is absolutely no reason for the UK to pay the EU 39 bn at all.

 

Even more ridiculous in view of her leave in name only 'agreement' with the EU!

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[vinny41]

 

It's ok for the brexiteers to claim it's the will of the people but not ok to have a peoples vote.

We already had a people vote in 2016 and we know from your numbers that less people want to Remain in the EU

[nauseus]

 

At the time the media was shouting 100 Billion, I saw a discussion programme with financial analysts including the EU, and what the media was reporting was the debt figure, when the refunds were calculated and taken into account the final figure was likely to fall between 25 and 50 billion.

I never saw TM answer any question on the refunds always sidestepped, obviously better to keep the people in the dark, looks good when you can say you got it down from 100 to 39.

Whatever. The 100B bill was always ridiculous and soon disappeared. I've never seen an itemized breakdown, including any allowances for existing assets paid for in part by the UK over the years and I don't think that any of these assets have been taken into account. 

[dick dasterdly]

 

At the time the media was shouting 100 Billion, I saw a discussion programme with financial analysts including the EU, and what the media was reporting was the debt figure, when the refunds were calculated and taken into account the final figure was likely to fall between 25 and 50 billion.

I never saw TM answer any question on the refunds always sidestepped, obviously better to keep the people in the dark, looks good when you can say you got it down from 100 to 39.

But you said "She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest."

 

The UK owes the EU zero, particularly under her leave in name only 'deal' - so her agreeing to pay 39bn is yet another 'black mark' against her.

 

Which brings me back to why you said that "She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest."

[billd766]

 

Good old days were 70+ but you may have missed them. 

I didn't, and I was around when the GBP was in the high 80s in Thb.

 

Sigh. I miss those good old days

[nontabury]

 

It's ok for the brexiteers to claim it's the will of the people but not ok to have a peoples vote.

 

Please keep up.

 

We’ve already had a people’s vote on this very subject in 2016,

Followed by a rubber stamp when we had the more recent general election,when 85+ of the population voted for parties that favored exiting the hated E.u.

 

[tebee]

 

 

Please keep up.

 

We’ve already had a people’s vote on this very subject in 2016,

Followed by a rubber stamp when we had the more recent general election,when 85+ of the population voted for parties that favored exiting the hated E.u.

 

Now now, you can't use the GE to endorse brexit, because both major parties where endorsing it and FPTP makes voting for a minor party a wasted vote. 

 

And none of these have defined how we should leave - you are happy with TMs plan then?

[tebee]

 

[malagateddy]

Tebee..you want another referenfum re brexit..set your ground rules..best of 3/5/7/9..exactly where do you start/stop with this nonsense.
Best to accept that the LEAVE vote won and get on with your life??!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

 

 

A Brexiteer being in charge is what should have happened from day 1, of course. I hear people say that they 'feel sorry for her' and 'that she never wanted to umpire this absolute mess', ... say what!?

She put herself up for the Prime Ministerial position and won the Tory party vote! So pull the other one!

Her election as PM was the biggest mistake of recent months IMO, as is now all too clear. She has only sabotaged every step of the process and is either conspiring against the result that she was never in favour of, or, is so woefully inept as a negotiator that she has absolutely no place being in such a powerful and important position.

 

The Soviet Union comparison is one that is so often derided by those opposed to Brexit, but there couldn't be a better analogy right now. It seems clear that when you have the likes of Mikhail Gorbachev and Vladimir Bukovsky making the exact same claims some years ago (before subsequent acts of closer union & the EU military were unveiled), everyone should take be taking note. Staggering that the EUSSR still has so many defenders. 

 

Brexiters were put in charge of leaving the EU, the foreign office, international trade and the back bench for the seventeenth century. They all turned out to be useless, just as you would expect.

 

I must say though, the standard of MPs generally is embarrassing. I would like to see all MPs facing reselection  before every election. Frankly, most of them are just not clever enough or knowledgeable enough. Anyone see Labour's shadow foreign trade minister? What a spasmo. I reckon only about 10% are good enough and that includes all the parties.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Grouse

[damascase]

 

...........

The EU is currently on a path similar to the Soviet Union, armies - defence budgets - central control and total power - it is hugely dangerous and a far cry from the Common Trade Market we joined in the seventies - the UK people want no part of it

 

The sheer stupidity/ignorance/maliciousness of this statement is mind-boggling. Leave if you want to leave, but don’t spread such utter nonsense, please.

[Guest]

 

In other words, May is playing games trying to get her leave in name only 'deal' (......) accepted by MPs.

 

Of course most MPs are thinking along the same lines - but I doubt this ploy will work as well as she hopes amongst the electorate.

Not quite. Your government has been informed in no uncertain wordings that this is the only deal there is. It's no longer UK's parliament right to change the deal. It is what it is. 

 

Vote the deal down and you are facing a no-deal Brexit. That might be hard brexiters dream, but hardly good for the country.. nor good for the EU either. 

 

Enough is enough. 

[damascase]

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by damascase
Double posting - slow TV

[Grouse]

 

please explain, consider the fact we have not left yet in your answer

There are even more lies to come?

[mommysboy]

 

Not quite. Your government has been informed in no uncertain wordings that this is the only deal there is. It's no longer UK's parliament right to change the deal. It is what it is. 

 

Vote the deal down and you are facing a no-deal Brexit. That might be hard brexiters dream, but hardly good for the country.. nor good for the EU either. 

 

Enough is enough. 

 

It's not a good deal. I would rather choose to just quit Brexit.  Failing that at least No Deal fulfils the idea of Brexit.  Yes, things will be terrible for a while.  And yes, it will not be good for the EU at all, especially if UK recovers, which it has a long history of doing.  Common sense requires we just stop Brexit.  I don't see why it's such a big issue- obvious strategy.

[Guest]

 

It should be zero....  There is absolutely no reason for the UK to pay the EU 39 bn at all.

 

Even more ridiculous in view of her leave in name only 'agreement' with the EU!

I guess as sovereign nation UK has the possibility not to pay her commitments to other parties.

 

As every single government in this world watches what happens with Brexit, each of the countries do make notes if Britain after brexit is still trustworthy partner to do business with. 

 

Don't pay you dues.. well that's as clear signal one can send.

 

[nauseus]

 

Brexiters were put in charge of leaving the EU, the foreign office, international trade and the back bench for the seventeenth century. They all turned out to be useless, just as you would expect.

 

I must say though, the standard of MPs generally is embarrassing. I would like to see all MPs facing reselection  before every election. Frankly, most of them are just not clever enough or knowledgeable enough. Anyone see Labour's shadow foreign trade minister? What a spasmo. I reckon only about 10% are good enough and that includes all the parties.

Cobblers. It is now quite apparent that any leavers that might have any sway on the negotiations were undermined by May and her Cabinet Office bag carriers from the start. Agree about MP quality though.