Is 95 octane the highest avaialble in Thailand?

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Shiver said:

If you google you will find a lot of reasons to debunk it.

You will also find a lot of people that got results.

Remember over the years lots of theory's and experiments on fuels found to be efficient and cheap are trashed or silenced by oil companies buying them up.

[Just Weird]

20 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Well you can bet your boots that those Ferraris and Lambo's are not running on "benzine gow ha".  I always hear that racing fuel is available  in BKK.  No idea where but Google it.  Racing fuel in Bangkok.  Or similar.

They all run on 95 with no problems as that's what they're designed to do!  High octane "racing fuel" or avgas would give those cars no advantage.

[Just Weird]

18 hours ago, bbudd said:

go to any small airport and buy AVGAS

For what reason in a car?

[Just Weird]

16 hours ago, Deli said:

Back in Europe this was 101 octane. Good stuff

Good for what, though?  It would be useless in a normal vehicle.

[Vacuum]

On 8/16/2018 at 11:31 AM, Kwasaki said:

As far as I know 95 Gasohol is the highest octane, there is some gasoline ( petrol ) available in Thailand don't know at what rating.

Most Caltex stations have 95 gasoline.

[Deli]

3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Good for what, though?  It would be useless in a normal vehicle.

Some sports cars of the 60ies and 70ies required this high octane for performing well. And I had one of these, this is why I know.

A Ford Fiesta or such of course wouldn't appreciate it

[Deli]

19 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well engines have moved on ya know. ?

Not necessarily to the better, specially not here.

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, Deli said:

Not necessarily to the better, specially not here.

Our Isuzu is a late diesel engine design, not the twin turbo version available in some places elsewhere but adequate enough.

[The Deerhunter]

12 hours ago, tropo said:

36.9 in Pattaya this evening. They call it benzene and it's not easy to find. There is no indication of its octane rating on the pump.

At PT ( green sign). It is called been xx ine giw ha ( 95) and pyin marked in an orange sticker on the pumps.

[The Deerhunter]

7 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well that's the thing no matter the octane value it's whether the engine components in the vehicle is compatible with using gasohol fuels.  

Surprisingly the part not compatible on many things is the plastic tube carrying the fuel to the carbie or the pump return tube.  They fail quickly on many motors.  I have a small collection of these fuel tubes, all dead!!

Edited August 17, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, Deli said:

Some sports cars of the 60ies and 70ies required this high octane for performing well. And I had one of these, this is why I know.

A Ford Fiesta or such of course wouldn't appreciate it

Many sports cars of the 60's and 70's run quite well on 4 star (98).

[tropo]

3 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

At PT ( green sign). It is called been xx ine giw ha ( 95) and pyin marked in an orange sticker on the pumps.

Good to know that my Yamaha Mio is getting the full 95. It just doesn't go well on mixes.

[The Deerhunter]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

Good to know that my Yamaha Mio is getting the full 95. It just doesn't go well on mixes.

I am sorry. I do  not know what Google did to that.   (I think) it should read, with some clarification:  "At PT stations ( which have a green sign advertising their brand, not the Blue sign which is PTT), it is called "benzine gow ha."  "Gow ha" is Thai for 9 and 5, not 95 which is "gow sip ha".  Benzine  Gow Ha has an orange sticker saying 95 on the pumps.  The fuel itself is always a light green colour.  Sorry about all that.

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Surprisingly the part not compatible on many things is the plastic tube carrying the fuel to the carbie or the pump return tube.  They fail quickly on many motors.  I have a small collection of these fuel tubes, all dead!!

Many plastics on older vehicles are resistant to non-polar solvents. When ethanol ( a polar solvent ) started being used in fuels, many older vehicles had component failure problems. The vehicle industry had to adapt quickly to incorporate plastics resistant to polar solvents.

Ethanol as a fuel is BS anyway. If it wasn't supported by subsidies to mollify the agricultural sector in many countries,

it would be roughly twice the cost of fossil fuels.

[Tuvoc]

Thanks for all the replies !

 

Yes I know 99% of cars do not NEED anything higher than 95, but many can benefit from something higher. The ECU via the knock sensors adjust to the higher octane to give a more responsive engine and a little more power on some cars.  The rated handbook power output on my car is when using 98 octane. I use 95 sometimes and 99 other times, and you can feel the difference, but reality is 95 is good enough.

 

So anyway, this was more curiosity more than anything else. The car I buy in Thailand will probably use E20, or heck may even be diesel...

[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

Yes I know 99% of cars do not NEED anything higher than 95, but many can benefit from something higher. The ECU via the knock sensors adjust to the higher octane to give a more responsive engine and a little more power on some cars.

As far as i understand it this is physically impossible.

Air mixed with Gasoline is put in the cylinder, then it is compressed to a certain smaller volume according to the compression ratio of the engine and then it gets ignited by the spark plug.

If the octane level of the gasoline is too low the mixture in the cylinder might ignite itself too early. If the octane level is sufficient this self ignition can not happen, no matter if you use 91, 95, 98 or whatever the manufacturer recommends.

The compression ratio of the engine can obviously not be changed, because this would require to change the piston or it's travel hub which is made completely of metal.

[Tuvoc]

You are wrong. The ECU will advance the ignition timing with higher octane fuel, IF it is programmed to do so. It is very well documented that on some cars that horsepower can increase with higher octane fuel, using knock sensors and ECU programming.

 

With some cars it makes no difference at all, if they do not have knock sensors and are not programmed, so paying for higher octane is a waste of money.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Tuvoc

[Shiver]

18 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

I am sorry. I do  not know what Google did to that.   (I think) it should read, with some clarification:  "At PT stations ( which have a green sign advertising their brand, not the Blue sign which is PTT), it is called "benzine gow ha."  "Gow ha" is Thai for 9 and 5, not 95 which is "gow sip ha".  Benzine  Gow Ha has an orange sticker saying 95 on the pumps.  The fuel itself is always a light green colour.  Sorry about all that.

If school days are recalled correctly "Benzine" was petrol in German.

So that would be Gasoline 95 as you suggest.

[Shiver]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:45 AM, Kwasaki said:

Remember over the years lots of theory's and experiments on fuels found to be efficient and cheap are trashed or silenced by oil companies buying them up.

Yeah.  While I don't like to be called 'tin foil hat' (or farang) I do think there are healthy reasons to maintain a little skepticism.

I trust my own experience over statistics.  It's just a survival thing that all of us here and now have done. Failure is learning and all that...

[Tuvoc]

13 minutes ago, Shiver said:

If school days are recalled correctly "Benzine" was petrol in German.

So that would be Gasoline 95 as you suggest.

 

Very few cars cannot tolerate 10% Ethanol, so 95 gasohol is OK for nearly all. I guess only classic cars could be an issue.

 

I'm not sure of the specifics, but in the UK under EU directives  I think it is mandated that suppliers have to have minimum 5% Ethanol across the range of products, it might even be higher than that. I think some leave it out of their 98-99 top range fuel and only use it in 95, but it is hard to tell, there is a veil of secrecy around it and the fuel companies won't disclose it.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Tuvoc

[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

You are wrong. The ECU will advance the ignition timing with higher octane fuel, IF it is programmed to do so. It is very well documented that on some cars that horsepower can increase with higher octane fuel, using knock sensors and ECU programming.

By advancing the ignition timing you still can't change the compression ratio of the engine, and that's what all this is about.

In the cycle of the piston there is a certain optimal point of when the spark plug should ignite. Why would a manufacturer not use this optimal point? And why would a manufacturer recommend fuel with an octane level at which this optimal point could not be used?

So you are basically saying that manufacturers are wasting energy / power by recommending to use 91 instead of 95? This just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Tuvoc]

Perhaps better expressed in reverse. More correctly, if you use a lower octane fuel than the manufacturer recommends, you'll either get knocking or less power if the ECU is able to retard the ignition timing to compensate. That is what I was trying to say. So at the end of the day the higher octane fuel gives more power, but only because the engine was designed for it.

 

 

 

[The Deerhunter]

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Many plastics on older vehicles are resistant to non-polar solvents. When ethanol ( a polar solvent ) started being used in fuels, many older vehicles had component failure problems. The vehicle industry had to adapt quickly to incorporate plastics resistant to polar solvents.

Ethanol as a fuel is BS anyway. If it wasn't supported by subsidies to mollify the agricultural sector in many countries,

it would be roughly twice the cost of fossil fuels.

Several of out new modern garden devices had problems with their fuel lines failing.

[The Deerhunter]

2 hours ago, Shiver said:

If school days are recalled correctly "Benzine" was petrol in German.

So that would be Gasoline 95 as you suggest.

Yes but TIT. You are probably correct, but!  Here gasoline seems to indicate it includes ethanol and the B word seems to relate to it being 100% petroleum here.  There is also a 95 octane blend here.  You want 100% petroleum ask for benzine 95!!!

Edited August 18, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[Shiver]

18 hours ago, jackdd said:

By advancing the ignition timing you still can't change the compression ratio of the engine, and that's what all this is about.

In the cycle of the piston there is a certain optimal point of when the spark plug should ignite. Why would a manufacturer not use this optimal point? And why would a manufacturer recommend fuel with an octane level at which this optimal point could not be used?

So you are basically saying that manufacturers are wasting energy / power by recommending to use 91 instead of 95? This just doesn't make any sense.

 

Hmmm, the last new car I bought in UK (which would be very old now) was all based on values assuming RON98 or 'Super' or 'Premium' or whatever.

I'm not a chemist so can't defend the numbers, but it seemed happier with that stuff than 'regular'.  I noticed temperature made a difference also, as I had to drive over the Pennines so altitude was also a factor.

[LammyTS1]

Back home, my Porsche had to run on 98. My old scooters also have to run on 98/99 as they are tuned 2 strokes. My modern scooter and car I used 95.

 

Here, all my modern scooters run on 95.

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

59 minutes ago, LammyTS1 said:

Back home, my Porsche had to run on 98. My old scooters also have to run on 98/99

You can use PTT's E20 then.