RCBO installed - issues

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, Rally123 said:

It was in my consumer unit also. Resulting in us receiving a mild electric shock when using the shower/heater. The RCB also tripped occasionally as I recall. After the Neutral was disconnected to the Earth the shocks stopped and the RCB also stopped tripping.

Mine was exact opposite. Was getting tingles until a man came and joined neutral to earth. TIT.

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

My supply is two cables coming from the pole outside. There is a L & N (black & white) cable coming into the fuse box, and a big green one going into the ground.

Very good.  But you are not the OP who posted photos of his 3-phase equipment.  Cheers.

 

And, if you actually have black and white mains, that would be worth a photo.  Usually the mains are the same color for L and N.

[Rally123]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

Mine was exact opposite. Was getting tingles until a man came and joined neutral to earth. TIT.

The guy that sorted mine was Uni trained and employed by the Electrity board. Surely if your Neutral is carrying 3-4 volts, which it does here in Ting Tong Land, then connecting it to your Earth cable ground spike makes your Earth live giving you a shock. That was how it was explained to me.

[Wirejerker]

It was in my consumer unit also. Resulting in us receiving a mild electric shock when using the shower/heater. The RCB also tripped occasionally as I recall. After the Neutral was disconnected to the Earth the shocks stopped and the RCB also stopped tripping.

You need to get your polarity checked


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[maxpower]

Back on track before the thread reaches planet Zar.

Quote - Anybody have any suggestions particularly regarding the extractor? Any obvious problems with the installation?

The OP has nuisance RCD trips and the best way to avoid a lot of dancing and guesswork is to use proper test gear. Mr DIY at post number 9 was tuned to the right station if the OP can find the man with a plan.  

There are several methods of tracing earth leaks but this is my fav

 

 

[Rally123]

20 minutes ago, Arjen said:

3-4 Volt is not enough to make your skin conductive. And when your neutral is 3-4V above ground, there must be an incredible current to make your ground rise to 1V. So something else must have been wrong.

All I can say is what I observed and what the guy said. He even pointed out to me that the N was connected to the E and rewired it. Job done and never a problem thereafter. TIT.

[bankruatsteve]

12 minutes ago, maxpower said:

Back on track before the thread reaches planet Zar.

Quote - Anybody have any suggestions particularly regarding the extractor? Any obvious problems with the installation?

The OP has nuisance RCD trips and the best way to avoid a lot of dancing and guesswork is to use proper test gear. Mr DIY at post number 9 was tuned to the right station if the OP can find the man with a plan.  

There are several methods of tracing earth leaks but this is my fav

 

 

OK - it's the end of happy hour for me.  I just gotta say that the video about "leakage current measurement" sounded like total BS to me.  Whatever.  The problem with any earth fault is finding it.  Testing for it is superfluous if a tripping RCD already tells you one exists.

[maxpower]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

OK - it's the end of happy hour for me.  I just gotta say that the video about "leakage current measurement" sounded like total BS to me.  Whatever.  The problem with any earth fault is finding it.  Testing for it is superfluous if a tripping RCD already tells you one exists.

The second parts of your statement leaves me with no doubt that you found the the video total BS.

I sincerely apologize for posting a video that appears to have taken you out of your comfort zone. 

[NanLaew]

Seconded.

 

My house was a pretty good build and the sparky spoke up a storm about understanding exactly what I wanted was needed... then half-way into the wire running, he fell off the wagon heavily and I inherited the best guesses of a couple of his 'apprentices' for the the kitchen, washer-dryer room and the 4th, guest bedroom.

 

I am planning a major electrical rework having just sourced who I am told is a 'top' electrician. He has managed to sort out some serious issues with infrequent live appliances in the kitchen but I was somewhat disconcerted that he had disconnected an earth spike at the back pf the house for the washing machine. Mind you, people were getting belts off the machine when it was 'grounded' before and are not getting belts now with that ground wire cut so maybe he sorted something that was crossed up in the roof space by the first clown. I was away at work so missed his 'expertise' in person.

 

A bit off topic but my main gripe still is the rubbish, unstable power that the PEA sells to domestic customers in the provinces. Sorely tempted to get one of these buggers. Pictures from my friends installation.

 

 

[stud858]

Putting a scope on the power supply would be good to see how clean and smooth the ac is. I want to make a 200x probe to hook up to my mobile phone oscilloscope app. Check out the apps on play store.

Have you cleaned out the extractor fan yet?.compressed air and then  Contact cleaner could be used. Tiresome, but I'd do that first. Or just go ahead and replace it. How much is a new one? Good if it can be returned if it doesn't fix the tripping.

 

 

[carlyai]

Putting a scope on the power supply would be good to see how clean and smooth the ac is. I want to make a 200x probe to hook up to my mobile phone oscilloscope app. Check out the apps on play store.

Have you cleaned out the extractor fan yet?.compressed air and then  Contact cleaner could be used. Tiresome, but I'd do that first. Or just go ahead and replace it. How much is a new one? Good if it can be returned if it doesn't fix the tripping.

 

 

If you're going to view waveforms, don't stuff around. Buy a good oscilloscope.

 

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[stud858]

45 minutes ago, carlyai said:

If you're going to view waveforms, don't stuff around. Buy a good oscilloscope.

 

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No money no honey

[sometimewoodworker]

21 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Very good.  But you are not the OP who posted photos of his 3-phase equipment.  Cheers.

 

And, if you actually have black and white mains, that would be worth a photo.  Usually the mains are the same color for L and N.

Here you go, PEA off cuts. Black and black and white.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

21 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

OK - it's the end of happy hour for me.  I just gotta say that the video about "leakage current measurement" sounded like total BS to me.  Whatever.  The problem with any earth fault is finding it.  Testing for it is superfluous if a tripping RCD already tells you one exists.

Well no the testing certainly isn't superfluous. How else are you going to find the causes of the trip if you don't bother to measure the leakage current.

 

 

 

 

Here is is another explanation of why you may need to measure the leakage current.

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Well no the testing certainly isn't superfluous. How else are you going to find the causes of the trip if you don't bother to measure the leakage current.

Why would I need to know the value of leakage current?  A fault is a fault and can change in current esp. when critters are involved.  The problem is finding the fault and fixing it.  I dissed the video because it seemed like a lame sales pitch to me.  I love testing but not when it gives information that is not needed.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Why would I need to know the value of leakage current?  A fault is a fault and can change in current esp. when critters are involved.  The problem is finding the fault and fixing it.  I dissed the video because it seemed like a lame sales pitch to me.  I love testing but not when it gives information that is not needed.

You obviously didn't bother to do any research or watch my linked video that does indeed explain why measuring the leakage current does matter. 

 

It also shows that your level of competence would probably be enough get you a job as a Thai electrical installer  if it was possible for a foreigner to legally do it.

 

It is quite possible, in fact likely, that there is not 1 fault but a series of faults that together reach the trip current level. Without measuring you don't know and will probably do a Thai electrical fix. ?

 

Certanly it was a sales pitch, however that doesn't make the information less useful does it? But if you don't want that meter then buy a different company's meter and learn to use it and why you should.

 

PS I apologise to the few competent Thai electricians for the comments, but unfortunately the vast majority of electrical fixers here are not electricians 

[stud858]

Brit Chap in video has other cool vids too.

Another person, Diodegonewild on YouTube is quite entertaining for electronics stuff.

[sometimewoodworker]

13 hours ago, stud858 said:

Brit Chap in video has other cool vids too.

Another person, Diodegonewild on YouTube is quite entertaining for electronics stuff.

Thanks for the suggestions I've just added Diode to my subscriptions he seems to do similar things to Bigclive though isn't as prolific as the Scottish, Manx man.

[upu2]

On 8/19/2018 at 5:29 PM, wgdanson said:

My supply is two cables coming from the pole outside. There is a L & N (black & white) cable coming into the fuse box, and a big green one going into the ground.

That will be Live, Neutral and the green one will be Earth. Earth does not go through a breaker but goes directly to the earth bar which should be connected to a good earth point

[upu2]

On 8/19/2018 at 6:18 PM, topt said:

Your eye sight must be worse then mine 

Definitely 3 phase.

 

Based on (so far) no negative feedback on the picture and what I saw happening I think the electrician knew what he was doing. Before installing he did advise that he would not be responsible if some of the house wiring caused the RCBO to trip and he had to search for a solution............

A house would not normally have a three phase supply. Usually three phase is used for industrial facilities. So I suggest you are the one who should get your eyes checked

[carlyai]

A house would not normally have a three phase supply. Usually three phase is used for industrial facilities. So I suggest you are the one who should get your eyes checked

Only factories have 3 phase. That's what I was told when trying to buy stuff for my 3 phase house system.

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[upu2]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Only factories have 3 phase. That's what I was told when trying to buy stuff for my 3 phase house system.

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If you are a factory as well as residence then you probably should buy 3 phase

[Crossy]

Our OP has 3-phase, note the 3-pole MCCB in his distribution board (N goes directly to the neutral bar).

 

1 hour ago, upu2 said:

That will be Live, Neutral and the green one will be Earth. Earth does not go through a breaker but goes directly to the earth bar which should be connected to a good earth point

Thailand is TNC-S with MEN (PME in UK speak), no earth provided by the supply authority. 

 

1 hour ago, upu2 said:

A house would not normally have a three phase supply. Usually three phase is used for industrial facilities. So I suggest you are the one who should get your eyes checked

The problem is if you need over about 10kVA (45A @ 220V) the next meter available outside of the main conurbations would be a 15/45 3-phase (3 x 45A).

 

Three-phase is most definitely used for large domestics here. We have single-phase 15/45 only 3 beds, 3 baths but we easily get over 60A (and the supply down to 180V) when we have visitors. If I had my time again I would have gone 3-phase.

 

 

[upu2]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Our OP has 3-phase, note the 3-pole MCCB in his distribution board (N goes directly to the neutral bar).

 

Thailand is TNC-S with MEN (PME in UK speak), no earth provided by the supply authority. 

 

The problem is if you need over about 10kVA (45A @ 220V) the next meter available outside of the main conurbations would be a 15/45 3-phase.

 

Three-phase is most definitely used for large domestics here. We have single-phase 15/45 only 3 beds, 3 baths but we easily get over 60A (and the supply down to 180V) when we have visitors. If I had my time again I would have gone 3-phase.

 

 

I totally agree with you

[stud858]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Thanks for the suggestions I've just added Diode to my subscriptions he seems to do similar things to Bigclive though isn't as prolific as the Scottish, Manx man.

Some people have the charisma .I'd love to meet with these guys and share stories. Diodegonewild dude says "bloody hell"" all the time. So funny.  I like how he pulls apart the Chinese products and explains their dangers.

 

I always gootta rimind myself to be alert when messing around with these kinds of things. Stay safe chaps.  Don't electrocute yourselves.