Trouble At Subway Tipp Plaza

[Mighty Mouse]

If I'm walking by and I see someone being attacked, someone trying to steal a car or someone trying to break into someones house then yes I will still intervene.

Sometimes it is more advantageous to be a witness to a crime rather than a hero.

A dead hero who became involved in a vicious crime is of no use in any subsequent court case.

On the other hand, a good observant witness will remember details of the crime, have a good description of the offender, record the registration number of the get-away vehicle etc. etc. and live to enjoy another day.

[pentapod]

My 2 cents

I want to add my admiration to the OP for sticking to his guns.

Let me add that this is not only a Thai problem. Thirty years ago (pre computer inventory days) my father pointed out "NO SALE" on the register when we went to pay a resturant bill.

I ordered take out Chinese in Boston last week. The kid behind the counter hand wrote my reciept. I'm sure it was a family owned business and he was

the favorite son. Was this sale and tax paid recorded? I doubt it.

I don't condone it - but this is a worldwide scam.

I don't think the OP was just after a free 199 baht sub. I think he was more concerned with the franchise owner being ripped off.

[Pattaya_Fox]

Some posts have been deleted and some editing has been done.

Lets keep it cool folks...and no more flaming....Thanks

[CharlesDavid]

If I'm walking by and I see someone being attacked, someone trying to steal a car or someone trying to break into someones house then yes I will still intervene.

Sometimes it is more advantageous to be a witness to a crime rather than a hero.

A dead hero who became involved in a vicious crime is of no use in any subsequent court case.

On the other hand, a good observant witness will remember details of the crime, have a good description of the offender, record the registration number of the get-away vehicle etc. etc. and live to enjoy another day.

Sorry sir, I just stood by while some chav broke into your car and sped away to perhaps commit even more serious crimes.

Don't worry though I got the registration number.

Edited March 8, 2008 by CharlesDavid

[madjbs]

While I would have done the same thing as you regarding the subway incident there is absolutely no way that I would confront a car thief in Thailand. There is too high a chance of death or serious injury and I would not not expect anyone else to do he same for me. In the UK when its just some chav then maybe but not here.

[walkon]

My 2 cents;

I believe the "free sandwich" for incorrect receipt is a good way to keep the employees honest. The free sandwich will motivate many customers to check the receipt and get a "free sandwich"

If the owner was purposely giving lower cost receipts for taxation reasons they would remove the "free sandwich" sign.

The question is; is it wrong for a customer to want the free sandwich?

Personally if I were hungry and saw the opportunity to get a valid free sandwich I cant say I would refrain for fear of being assaulted by the person making it. I would not ever imagine being assaulted over a sandwich.

I would not perceive my role as looking out for the owner either, but simply wanting a free sandwich.

[InFocus]

I'm really sorry to say that I've read this ridiculous thread from page one. Being a bit of a new kid on the block, I wondered at the marvel that is this ever-existent thread for thirteen months.

From my objective point of view, I've deduced that there are two bitterly divided sides of the argument for this.

Camp A says that a free sandwich or helping some owner you don't even know is not worth the risk or danger of being attacked by a lunatic.

Camp B says that Camp A is basically greedy, on the low end of society, of poor taste, poor attitude, pathetic, etc.. for not agreeing with the OP.

What Camp B is doing is called, "Fallacy of Argument from Outrage"

http://keithdevens.com/wiki/Logical+fallacies

It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion or debate with people like that of Camp B, because they'll just use words like "silly" and "pathetic" to dismiss any idea or thought that is in disagreement with their own.

Furthermore, Camp B has revived this thread from 13 months of dormancy just to further flame and re-argue an argument that's been done and over with for a year.

They're even requoting posts from 13 months ago just to make the same arguments against them that were made the first time. And they are still flaming Camp A for these past quotes, even though everything has been discussed and revised a long time ago.

Actually, no. I'm not sorry I read this thread. It's the most ridiculous thread that I've ever read. So at least it's some kind of superlative.

Not because of the original argument, for which I think there are good points on both sides, but because of the way its been argued by the "red in the face" Camp B who is still angry after 13 months.

[stevemiddie]

I'm really sorry to say that I've read this ridiculous thread from page one. Being a bit of a new kid on the block, I wondered at the marvel that is this ever-existent thread for thirteen months.

From my objective point of view, I've deduced that there are two bitterly divided sides of the argument for this.

Camp A says that a free sandwich or helping some owner you don't even know is not worth the risk or danger of being attacked by a lunatic.

Camp B says that Camp A is basically greedy, on the low end of society, of poor taste, poor attitude, pathetic, etc.. for not agreeing with the OP.

What Camp B is doing is called, "Fallacy of Argument from Outrage"

http://keithdevens.com/wiki/Logical+fallacies

It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion or debate with people like that of Camp B, because they'll just use words like "silly" and "pathetic" to dismiss any idea or thought that is in disagreement with their own.

Furthermore, Camp B has revived this thread from 13 months of dormancy just to further flame and re-argue an argument that's been done and over with for a year.

They're even requoting posts from 13 months ago just to make the same arguments against them that were made the first time. And they are still flaming Camp A for these past quotes, even though everything has been discussed and revised a long time ago.

Actually, no. I'm not sorry I read this thread. It's the most ridiculous thread that I've ever read. So at least it's some kind of superlative.

Not because of the original argument, for which I think there are good points on both sides, but because of the way its been argued by the "red in the face" Camp B who is still angry after 13 months.

Its even more ridiculous that you took the time to write such a long-winded and boring response.

[InFocus]

Its even more ridiculous that you took the time to write such a long-winded and boring response.

Wrong. The thread is thirteen months of complete nonsense. My post took 10 minutes to write.

Not long winded either, It was concise and to the point. It needed to be that long to completely express my thoughts on the issue.

Boring? That is completely in the eye of the beholder.

[stevemiddie]

Wrong. The thread is thirteen months of complete nonsense. My post took 10 minutes to write.

Not long winded either, It was concise and to the point. It needed to be that long to completely express my thoughts on the issue.

In your opinion.

Boring? That is completely in the eye of the beholder.

Correct. As above.

Mine took 18 seconds to write.

( Reason for edit : timing )

Edited March 9, 2008 by stevemiddie

[InFocus]

Quite a few pathetic responses.

Posters like that......they deserve to live in a country racked by anarchy.

You are one of the very people in Camp B.

I tried not to point out individuals. But people like you will use negative adjectives against people differing from your point of view, even if it doesn't apply to the situation.

People like you are impossible to have a conversation with. You spew out things like "pathetic" if it doesn't agree with your point of view.

And of course, people who don't want to risk being attacked by a lunatic deserve to live in anarchy.

It is outrageous responses like this that make you a joke. How can someone take you seriously if you insult and flame everyone who doesn't agree with you?

So let's round up everyone from Camp A and deliver them to anarchy. Yes they deserve it for siding against you in this argument. Take their jobs away, their lives, their homes, and throw them into anarchy.

Yes, you're a real winner.

[stevemiddie]

Quite a few pathetic responses.

Posters like that......they deserve to live in a country racked by anarchy.

You are one of the very people in Camp B.

I tried not to point out individuals. But people like you will use negative adjectives against people differing from your point of view, even if it doesn't apply to the situation.

People like you are impossible to have a conversation with. You spew out things like "pathetic" if it doesn't agree with your point of view.

And of course, people who don't want to risk being attacked by a lunatic deserve to live in anarchy.

It is outrageous responses like this that make you a joke. How can someone take you seriously if you insult and flame everyone who doesn't agree with you?

So let's round up everyone from Camp A and deliver them to anarchy. Yes they deserve it for siding against you in this argument. Take their jobs away, their lives, their homes, and throw them into anarchy.

Yes, you're a real winner.

Thank you. You,re not.

In case you have missed the point, I,ll spell it out for you...........Outofocus.

Its about " attitude "

Some people will turn a blind eye and some will not. I will not. I can only hope you are never in a situation where you will require help or a response to some villainy that may befall you. Like 4 Thais kicking your head in. For fear of revenge I won,t help you. I would assume that is Ok with you? No intervention ?

Having read your earlier posts it seems that you are not even in Thailand, let alone Pattaya. Teaching English in Asia and you are asking about what you have to do to be qualified here in 2 years time? Like we all know. T.I.T

Seeing as how you are lurking about on the Pattaya forum then yes, if you come to this region you WILL need a criminal records check. ( AKA.......Subject access report )

Is that a problem for you Mr. OutofFocus?

As far as TEFL, TESOL, CELTA are concerned, it is NOT a requirement that you have them ( according to the R&R of the MoE )

I guess you are not a winner huh?

Edited March 9, 2008 by stevemiddie

[InFocus]

In case you have missed the point, I,ll spell it out for you...........Outofocus.

Its about " attitude "

Some people will turn a blind eye and some will not. I will not. I can only hope you are never in a situation where you will require help or a response to some villainy that may befall you. Like 4 Thais kicking your head in. For fear of revenge I won,t help you. I would assume that is Ok with you? No intervention ?

Having read your earlier posts it seems that you are not even in Thailand, let alone Pattaya. Teaching English in Asia and you are asking about what you have to do to be qualified here in 2 years time? Like we all know. T.I.T

Seeing as how you are lurking about on the Pattaya forum then yes, if you come to this region you WILL need a criminal records check. ( AKA.......Subject access report )

Is that a problem for you Mr. OutofFocus?

As far as TEFL, TESOL, CELTA are concerned, it is NOT a requirement that you have them ( according to the R&R of the MoE )

I guess you are not a winner huh?

I didn't even say which side I would ring in on if I were in this situation.

Perhaps I would ask for the sandwich. And maybe his anger would make me more angry and I'd demand the sandwich.

But then if I felt threatened, I'd certainly back down.

But whatever the case, I'm not going to shout "To ANARCHY with you" to the people who wouldn't bother with the sandwich.

And now you imply that these people would also not help if they saw someone getting his head kicked in.

It is this kind of inflammatory response that makes you a joke.

To equate embezzlement to seeing a violent crime is ridiculous.

And now you've searched through my posts so you can level a personal attack on my life and/or situation.

Yes, I'm exploring the possibility of living and working in Thailand.

And yes, I've asked about the paperwork that has to be done.

And no, I dont have a criminal record of any kind.

I was asking specifically which kind of police clearance has to be done so I can get it done.

FYI, after doing this very research, I'm more inclined to simply take the chance and invest instead of going the route of the work permit.

A one year renewable visa is not worth the effort and the salary and the uncertainty.

I love Thailand and I'd like to live in Thailand. I'd like to do it independantly without marrying a Thai (for starters anyway).

I think I have enough to get an investment visa, but I don't know what I would do this the investment goes bad.

So at this point in time, I'm up in the air about what I'm going to do.

What kind of person are you? To attack someone because of his life situation?

This thread had nothing to do with my life or your life.

It had to do with how we would react in a given situation.

Now you think that everyone in Camp A , not only deserves to be thrown into anarchy, but also have their personal lives and situations attacked just for not agreeing with you on an issue.

Think about what you just did. You stalked and did research on someone just so you could attack his personal life for not agreeing with you on this issue.

Instead of attacking my point of view in this thread, you actually stalked and found info on me so you could attack my personal life.

You are really a sad individual, you know that?

You thought your post would anger me but I just feel sorry for you. You're really sad.

[stevemiddie]

I call some responses " pathetic " . You refer to that as a personal attack? You called it " It's the most ridiculous thread that I've ever read"

I guess thats not personal.

Stalked you? Oh gosh............actually, I had read your previous posts as you placed them on the forum. Is that researching and stalking ?

Then don,t post.

Paranoid.

For your information..............you will never have enough for an investment visa but you will have to research to find out why.

Just try not to stalk any posts on that subject ok?

[miksguevara]

A couple of weeks ago I bought a subway sandwich from Tipp Plaza. The next day when I was going through my pocket I found that the receipt I had been given was for a 15 baht water rather than the 199 baht sandwich I ordered - an obvious staff fiddle.

This evening I went back and ordere another sandwich. I noticed a sign saying check your receipt if incorrect free 6 inch sub of your choice.

On receiving my sandwich initially the guy serving didn't hand over the receipt. I asked for it and in view of what happened the previous time I checked my receipt and surprise surprise it was for 15 baht water. I pointed this out to him and he immediately rang in another sale on the till for the correct 199 baht price.

I ponted out that the initial receipt was wrong and asked for my free 6 inch sub. This he refused to give me.

I went back to my motorcycle took out a pen and paper from the box and went back in the shop and wrote down the number to call if there are any problems.

When I was getting back on the bike the guy serving came racing out the shop and actually tried to punch me. I ducked put my bike in gear and left.

Is this typical of Subway?

I realize that Subway are one of the sponsers for this board. If anyone in a management position at Subway would like to pm me I will happily meet with them to discuss this mattyer in more detail.

I cannot believe this guy's behaviour.

cool I might try this out when I get bored

[balo]

I choose Camp B , no problem for me.

People like Infocus are just too scared of facing the real world out there.

Its good for Thailand and good for businesses like Subway that we have people like OP who are not afraid to tell.

[khunopie]

I ate at the Suk soi 33 Subway a month ago. Bought a salad for 120 baht and noticed my bill was for a different item (can't recall exactly) for almost half the price. Immediately I suspected staff were pocketing the difference.

[libya 115]

I choose Camp B , no problem for me.

People like Infocus are just too scared of facing the real world out there.

Its good for Thailand and good for businesses like Subway that we have people like OP who are not afraid to tell.

I am in Camp C in this Camp we rise above such squabbles because we know that dishonesty is wrong and those who condone dishonesty are bad people.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Libya, you just beat me to starting Camp C, but I am proud to join if I qualify.

[libya 115]

Libya, you just beat me to starting Camp C, but I am proud to join if I qualify.

I salute your indefagability. Thank you for your support.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

As always, I will interpret things people say about me that I do not understand in my favour.

But what exactly is my "indefagability"?

[libya 115]

QUOTE: MeamaximaCulpa "As always, I will interpret things people say about me that I do not understand in my favour.

But what exactly is my "indefagability"?"

Sorry (spelling) indefatigability............

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Oups, that goes beond my wordcount Libya, but I still think you mean well.

And by this, I think we have strayed very far from the topic, something to do with panic in submarines...

[Bootang]

Okay ,

Other Places where the Thai Staff are scrapping a living from ripping dumb farangs off :

Family Mart ( The one right next to Cosy Beach Resort )

Frequently busy with a lot of Russian Tourists. I went in to buy a few beers and a young girl rung it up on the register adding 50 Baht to the total and instead of the till opening she just pointed at the amount showing on the screen, when I challenged her about the amount she then gave me the Thai evil eyes and then rang up the correct amount quickly giving me a reciept, im sure she has two condos in view talay from doing this- Drunk Russians with huge wallets.

Jomtien Beach Car Park – Im sure in corporation with the Tourist Police on the corner.

Parking there is 5 Baht, its always been 5 Baht , it should actually be Free but there you go , I went there last Sunday and the little Thai Girl told me 20 Baht ? Mean while a Thai Man walked past and gave her 5 Baht. ??? When I explained its 5 Baht she said he was only staying for short time but if I wanted to park it was 20Baht. I threw her 10 baht and walked off , when I came back to my bike she was talking to the Police Man, but I left the car park un approached!

Second Road outside Royal Garden Plaza –

Again pulled up just along side the main entrance next too the motor cycle taxis, then the taxi boy said it was 60 Baht to park there ! I asked him why and if he was police man, and he walked off . I decided not to park their anyway as feared them vandalizing my bike further, so I parked in a safe area opposite.

Returning 2 hours later my bike had been taken, the motor cycle man was waiting on the corner, he said the police take it? So the scam went like this:

60 Baht to the Police Station (Beach Road Pattaya)

500 Baht for the ticket , I didn't even challenge the fact it was not park wrong.

70 Baht to the lock up which is far away , again by the same motor cycle taxi guy waiting outside.

When you arrive at the lock up, you have to hand over all receipts including the ticket and you get your bike back. I was actually expecting more money extraction , however was happy to leave. As a westerner living & working here, i am not so fussed on minor rip offs , sometimes fighting with the scammers is too draining and not worth messing with, many people here will kill for a few thousand and thats the bottom line, so a few baht here and there is not going to see me go without food...

Lesson learnt , do not mess with the motor cycle taxi man. While I was in the police station the police man actually offered me a selection of motor cycles to hire ? I wonder if this comes with protection for parking around Pattaya. I except the fact im living in Asia, and Pattaya is without doubt a funniest place ive ever lived.

[/size]

Edited March 13, 2008 by Bootang

[clausewitz]

Mister fingers,

what a sad attitude you have. last year I witnessed a man knock down an old lady and run off with her handbag. Me and another man gave chase and caught the perp. and held him while other members of the public were on the phone to police. After 10 minutes they handcuffed the guy and took him away.

Was I nervous- well it was a long 10 minutes that's for sure, especially with the crim yelling occasional obscenities. But it seemed like the right thing to do and I hope I would do it again. It was written up in the local paper and not one person has said I should have minded my own business.

All kudos to the OP, franchise owner and sunbelt for their actions.

[stevemiddie]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing"

Edmund Burke

[NanLaew]

Okay ,

Other Places where the Thai Staff are scrapping a living from ripping dumb farangs off :

Family Mart ( The one right next to Cosy Beach Resort )

Frequently busy with a lot of Russian Tourists. I went in to buy a few beers and a young girl rung it up on the register adding 50 Baht to the total and instead of the till opening she just pointed at the amount showing on the screen, when I challenged her about the amount she then gave me the Thai evil eyes and then rang up the correct amount quickly giving me a reciept, im sure she has two condos in view talay from doing this- Drunk Russians with huge wallets.

Take your business elsewhere. Plenty of choices in Pattaya. BTW, she has only 1 condo but it is a 2-bedroom unit with a sea view.

Jomtien Beach Car Park – Im sure in corporation with the Tourist Police on the corner.

Parking there is 5 Baht, its always been 5 Baht , it should actually be Free but there you go , I went there last Sunday and the little Thai Girl told me 20 Baht ? Mean while a Thai Man walked past and gave her 5 Baht. ??? When I explained its 5 Baht she said he was only staying for short time but if I wanted to park it was 20Baht. I threw her 10 baht and walked off , when I came back to my bike she was talking to the Police Man, but I left the car park un approached!

Hmmm... your 'threw' her 10 baht. And some people talk about rude, arrogant, know-all farangs? Careful how you handle anything that has H.M.'s image on it mate.

Second Road outside Royal Garden Plaza –

Again pulled up just along side the main entrance next too the motor cycle taxis, then the taxi boy said it was 60 Baht to park there ! I asked him why and if he was police man, and he walked off . I decided not to park their anyway as feared them vandalizing my bike further, so I parked in a safe area opposite.

Returning 2 hours later my bike had been taken, the motor cycle man was waiting on the corner, he said the police take it? So the scam went like this:

60 Baht to the Police Station (Beach Road Pattaya)

500 Baht for the ticket , I didn't even challenge the fact it was not park wrong.

70 Baht to the lock up which is far away , again by the same motor cycle taxi guy waiting outside.

When you arrive at the lock up, you have to hand over all receipts including the ticket and you get your bike back. I was actually expecting more money extraction , however was happy to leave. As a westerner living & working here, i am not so fussed on minor rip offs , sometimes fighting with the scammers is too draining and not worth messing with, many people here will kill for a few thousand and thats the bottom line, so a few baht here and there is not going to see me go without food...

Lesson learnt , do not mess with the motor cycle taxi man. While I was in the police station the police man actually offered me a selection of motor cycles to hire ? I wonder if this comes with protection for parking around Pattaya. I except the fact im living in Asia, and Pattaya is without doubt a funniest place ive ever lived.

OK, I will be gentle. You are a newbie. You had a confrontation with this guy (seems a trait in your dealings with the Thai people you mentioned so far) but you thought you would be smart and park WHERE HE COULD SEE YOU. Kind of left yourself open to that one IMHO. I hope you really take your consideration that Pattaya is the 'funniest' place you have lived to heart and when you (quite rightly) catch them in a scam, don't be tempted to belittle or chastise those you catch ripping you off as there's a helluva lot of credence placed on losing face here. Be polite... even to the point of being obsequiously polite. Avoid making them lose face in front of their peers and take satisfaction is saving some small change for your dinner. No wai-ing though and they will get the message.

I think you will get along great here.

BTW. Why didn't you consider creating a new post on this subject rather than adding to this very old and way off topic thread... like I just did!

So 630 baht to get your bike back. In the US, it can take as little as $300 to get your car/bike back, even in a 'doubtful' tow scenario.

[MisterFingers]

Mister fingers,

what a sad attitude you have. last year I witnessed a man knock down an old lady and run off with her handbag. Me and another man gave chase and caught the perp. and held him while other members of the public were on the phone to police. After 10 minutes they handcuffed the guy and took him away.

If I witnessed such a thing, I would have done exactly as you did. I would have run after him.

Just like if I see a man hitting a woman or a kid, I'll make sure he knows how it feels.

Something like this, I would honestly step in.

However, risking an attack by an agitated psycho by reporting him for suspicion of embezzling 5 dollars from a company.

Not gonna happen.

They pay their employees a tiny fraction of the minimum wage in most western countries.

Are they so surprised that their employees, whom they barely pay enough to keep from starving, behave this way?

I'm sorry you guys. I'm not gonna risk my neck for some company that exploits the poor so they can sell discounted items.

Sad attitude? That's an opinion with which I disagree.

But your childish insults are not gonna change my point of view on this.

[Bootang]

Sorry Nanlaew - or "Long Ago"

Thanks for going easy on me

Sorry! You are right this thread has long gone to bed,, YAWN !! I really appreciate your tips on "How to tame a Thai "you must have had a lot of experience, with dealing with these "sub humans " Sorry to be sarcastic, but it sounds like you are describing something rather than an entire race ! I have however, saved the steps you outlined and next time I get into a situation where some ones trying to extract money, I will be prepared, appologise,empty my pockets and wallet , saving enough coins for some fried rice!

Thank you ,

Edited March 14, 2008 by Bootang

[soundman]

They pay their employees a tiny fraction of the minimum wage in most western countries.

Are they so surprised that their employees, whom they barely pay enough to keep from starving, behave this way?

Actually - Subway generally pay their staff quite a bit above the Thai minimum wage.

No excuse whatsoever for ripping the boss off & hopefully the few scumbag employees that do this, get caught and severely dealt with.

Soundman.