CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[Thailand]

49 minutes ago, davehowden said:

Yes, DIY.

Just remembered, last time I had a copy of the lease agreement that was asked for. So maybe that or a copy of yellow book.

Never know, only a few pieces of paper and some printer ink.

[cusanus]

19 hours ago, rumak said:

I believe a large majority of single westerners come here to get away from lives that were not happy Unfortunately very few (from what i have seen) have taken advantage of the different way of life that thailand offers.  Pretty much like children that despise their parents and then proceed to become just like them.   For all that are making a better life here i applaud you.  Bring that thai smile to immigration with you. Yes, it might not be 100 % genuine,  but with practice it does tend to grow on you.

It's been nearly 14 years as close to heaven on earth as you could imagine. Wonderful, plus ten years of absolute marital bliss, many joyful family additions. I could go on for a long time...

[since2003]

I went to CM Immigration today to get a 1-year extension based on marriage and on income. I had with me all the usual papers I have used in the last 10 years PLUS a print-out from my bank in Norway via internet banking showing my pension-income for the last 12 months. I also printed out a complete bank statement for the month of November (I was shown this last week by an Immigration Officer as an example - when I didn't know I had to have statements from my farang bank).

 

Today I asked the IO if she wanted both or just one of the statments. She wanted both - but I had the impression she wasn't 100% sure and took both to be sure. I also had a statement from my Thai bank showing just one month (November). I didn't include this in the application. I waited for the IO to ask for it, but she never did.

 

The IO also did not use the information from the bank statements. She took my embassy income letter and used the numbers from it. I was a little surprised by this, because the numbers to NOT match - because the income attested to in my embassy letter is my income before taxes, and the numbers on my Norwegian bank statements represent my income after taxes are paid to Norway.

 

I pay tax only to Norway and not to Thailand because I only live in Thailand for about 177-178 days a year. I didn't say anything to the IO - perhaps I should have... and perhaps I will get a call from Immigration about this in the weeks ahead. But I must say that both my gross and net monthly income is way above 40K baht, so I should be safe, I hope.

 

I asked the IO officer whether I had to have both the embassy income letter and the bank statements - or if I could get a visa with only bank statements. She answered that I needed both. If I didn't have the embassy income letter, then she said I would have to show 400K in the bank for 3 months.

 

I arrived at CM Immigration at 1230 and got a queue ticket (they work through lunch now). At 1500 I was called to the desk of the IO. I had 42 pages of documents and forms plus the usual 20 photos for Immigration to choose 2 from. The wife and I had signed all the documents - but I had to sign all of them a second time after they were stamped with a big stamp. The IO chatted a little with the wife and the IO also had to fill even more forms that me and the wife had to sign. The whole thing to about 20 minutes.

 

Then I had to sit down and wait again - for 40 more minutes. Before I could pick up my passport with the stamps in it I had to take a photo and sign two more forms for a temporary visa until my 1-year extension is approved by Immigration headquarters in Bankok. I was out the door with my passport at 1540, 3 hours and 10 minutes after arriving.

 

I like the new queue system - it is now possible to arrive around lunch-time and still get the business done! Every year since 2009 I have been at CM Immigration at 0500-0600 in the morning. Once I was there at 0400. I have never used an agent or paid line sitters. So the situation is better now. Much better!! ...except for the uncertainties around income verification this year. It really pisses me off when Immigration changes their document-requirements without informing their customers in any way - at least I didn't see it posted at their official website or anywhere else.

[cusanus]

58 minutes ago, since2003 said:

The IO also did not use the information from the bank statements. She took my embassy income letter and used the numbers from it. I was a little surprised by this, because the numbers to NOT match - because the income attested to in my embassy letter is my income before taxes, and the numbers on my Norwegian bank statements represent my income after taxes are paid to Norway. I pay tax only to Norway and not to Thailand because I only live in Thailand for about 177-178 days a year.

The income statements are good enough until next year, then it's unclear what they will accept. If you earn money in your home country, you normally pay taxes to your home country regardless of where you live. There is no double taxation per treaty. The embassy letters are going out mostly as a result of lack of respect from farangs, so it seems, anyway.  Elections may bring about more clarity (or less). Hope my next extension is a good experience.   

[chingmai331]

Went to CM Immig today. 

 

May i advise all to bring your 'humble hat' coz the idiotic simplistic rules that run that place may bring you to need that deep humility in order to survive...and get your retirement extension.

Oh, my friend you signed the page in black ink.  You must get new copies and sign in blue. Oops, your house master made a small error on the print-out form, come back tomorrow with new TM30. Show that the 800,000 baht in the bank came from  'out of Thailand'.

Eat the shit, coz that's the only way to get along with Immig.

[since2003]

3 hours ago, cusanus said:

The income statements are good enough until next year, then it's unclear what they will accept. If you earn money in your home country, you normally pay taxes to your home country regardless of where you live. There is no double taxation per treaty. The embassy letters are going out mostly as a result of lack of respect from farangs, so it seems, anyway.  Elections may bring about more clarity (or less). Hope my next extension is a good experience.   

Norway has a bilateral tax treaty with Thailand - and living in Thailand for me for more than 180 days a year has tax consequences. I will not go into that further here, it's not really relevant to this thread.

 

It's the embassies of Denmark, Australia, the UK and the US that "showed a lack of respect" (or "stood up to", depending on your perspective!) to Thailand and Thai Immigration by refusing to guarantee that their income letters are 100% accurate. Individual farangs and their behavior at Thai Immigration had very little to do with this.

 

In my opinion the income letters of the US embassy and consulates are the main reason why Thai Immigration are provoked - and why they contacted many foreign embassies starting in February of this year. That any American can just swear on his/her honor that their income is whatever they say it is - and then get this statement written down and stamped & notarized by the US embassy/consulate is an insult not only to Thai Immigration, but to all other farangs not from the USA as well. Probably not a popular opinion with Americans, but so what? They may have brought down the entire income letter system, for everyone. Because it's possible that in 2019 Thai Immigration will not accept embassy income letters from any nation because of this...

[since2003]

3 hours ago, cusanus said:

The income statements are good enough until next year, then it's unclear what they will accept. If you earn money in your home country, you normally pay taxes to your home country regardless of where you live. There is no double taxation per treaty. The embassy letters are going out mostly as a result of lack of respect from farangs, so it seems, anyway.  Elections may bring about more clarity (or less). Hope my next extension is a good experience.   

Norway has a bilateral tax treaty with Thailand - and living in Thailand for me for more than 180 days a year has tax consequences. I will not go into that further here, it's not really relevant to this thread.

 

It's the embassies of Denmark, Australia, the UK and the US that "showed a lack of respect" (or "stood up to", depending on your perspective!) to Thailand and Thai Immigration by refusing to guarantee that their income letters are 100% accurate. Individual farangs and their behavior at Thai Immigration had very little to do with this.

 

In my opinion the income letters of the US embassy and consulates are the main reason why Thai Immigration are provoked - and why they contacted many foreign embassies starting in February of this year. That any American can just swear on his/her honor that their income is whatever they say it is - and then get this statement written down and stamped & notarized by the US embassy/consulate is an insult not only to Thai Immigration, but to all other farangs not from the USA as well. Probably not a popular opinion with Americans, but so what? They may have brought down the entire income letter system, for everyone. Because it's possible that in 2019 Thai Immigration will not accept embassy income letters from any nation because of this...

[davehowden]

" That any American can just swear on his/her honor that their income is whatever they say it is - and then get this statement written down and stamped & notarized by the US embassy/consulate "

 

Seems to me that the problem has been caused by Thai Immigration never understanding in the first instance what an affidavit actually is , and accepting this method as proof of income for many years, then suddenly waking up to its potential misuse.

[cusanus]

3 hours ago, davehowden said:

" That any American can just swear on his/her honor that their income is whatever they say it is - and then get this statement written down and stamped & notarized by the US embassy/consulate " Seems to me that the problem has been caused by Thai Immigration never understanding in the first instance what an affidavit actually is , and accepting this method as proof of income for many years, then suddenly waking up to its potential misuse.

Quite possibly you are both correct, but a lot of things in government don't make sense to a lot of people nor should such quirks constitute an insult. Perhaps some have misused the procedure, but doubtfully too many. I never could quite grasp the rules for tourist visas, either. They have cracked down on that in the past, too, but many have stayed continually in Thailand for 10 years or more on tourist visas and do you think the PTB are not aware of that, either? Personally, I believe the Immigration authorities have always been well aware of how they do business, but recently not so welcoming.   

[JimGant]

Quote

In my opinion the income letters of the US embassy and consulates are the main reason why Thai Immigration are provoked - and why they contacted many foreign embassies starting in February of this year.

Irrational logic. If Thai Immigration was only concerned about NO income verification, then, only the US and Aussie embassies would have been put on notice. Instead, apparently all embassies were notified, and each interpreted (or are in the process) for themselves what constituted sufficient verification for Thai Immigration purposes. Some, like the UK and Denmark, came to the conclusion that their methods of income verification weren't up to what the Thais wanted. Other embassies have concluded (or are still pondering) that their verification methods are in compliance with what they understood the Thais to have said.

 

Always convenient to blame the Yanks -- we're a big target. And often the blame fits. But not in this situation.

 

 

[JimGant]

duplicate post

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by JimGant
duplicate post

[JohnMidnight]

On 11/3/2018 at 4:53 AM, Sparkles said:

Prepared to go in next week was just trying to save making 2 trips.Nothing on their web site,not even a "Priority Lane" form to download

Hi,

 

Did you ask/get priority treatment ?    If so,  what was the procedure 

[cusanus]

7 hours ago, JimGant said:

Irrational logic. If Thai Immigration was only concerned about NO income verification, then, only the US and Aussie embassies would have been put on notice. Some, like the UK and Denmark, came to the conclusion that their methods of income verification weren't up to what the Thais wanted.

You forget the US. Anyway, the rules change now and then and now the burden is on the IO to determine if the evidence is sufficient on a case by case basis. No need to shed any tears, life is like that; however, the signs at Promenada were quite revealing, the one especially in part saying "in with the good and out with the bad." The personal information form was also not exactly a warm gesture, nor was it directed at Yanks. As guests we should all know that being polite and non critical is the best way to build a happy nest. From what my wife says, the Chinese are seen as the biggest pain.

[Sparkles]

15 hours ago, JohnMidnight said:

Hi,

 

Did you ask/get priority treatment ?    If so,  what was the procedure 

Apologies havent been yet although alll my paperwork is sitting here ready to go and has been for some time ,just need to go to the bank,just other priorities delayed my visit.

Imm do have a phone number on their web site they might tell you.

I downloaded the priority lane form from a link someone posted a while ago its just basic name address ,reason etc.Wouldnt be surprised if processing is up on the second floor, just a guess though.Last year at Promendada just turned up at 9-15am and out by 11.30 ish.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Sparkles

[Hugh Jarse]

On 26 November 2018 at 12:34 PM, stephenterry said:

Update to my retirement income post yesterday. First paragraph for INCOME applicants only, NOT those with 800k in a bank account.

 

I was advised by my CM Visa company (after examining my uk tax return showing my pension income) to stick with the BE income letter (valid for 6 months) and supporting documents to obtain a retirement extension, and not to open up any can of worms regarding monies being transferred to a Thai bank account. Of course, anything could happen to derail this advice, albeit unlikely before the Thai election. However, I'm going to take advantage of the 'up to 45 days' application before expiry, to get an extension before any changes are made. 

 

***

 

Also, for those living with their partners in rented or bought properties, even if a non-Thai possesses a yellow house book, it is mandatory to file a TM30 with Immigration to register the address before applying for renewal of extension. Or you could be charged with overstay (even though it's the responsibility of the home owner). This 'new' dictate has been operational since earlier in 2018 - it wasn't a requirement in Feb when I renewed my extension, but it sure is now. 

 

 

I too was caught out earlier this month when Wifey and me applied for the annual extension. Despite my having a yellow book, and protestations from the wife. Beware all. Really brings home the reality of living in a Police state.

[tabarin]

I went for the first time to the new building of immigration at the airport in Chiang Mai today. 

This time I came on purpose after the lunch break as the majority always wants to be early. I prepared my documents and money already for the tourist extension and could keep a check on my queue number via the new HappyQueue app by scanning the QR code (App is available for both Android and Apple in the app store). 

The area has developed a lot and in combination with the Queue App as you can also cross the road and find a Amazon cafe as well 7/11 at the gas station or just walk to Central Airport shopping mall. This makes it much more pleasant to wait in my opinion and I collected my passport just before 4:30PM. 

The only thing I did notice is that the layout inside the building is not really the brightest as the applications for tourist extensions are handled right behind the main door (TiT) as well that somehow the 100 THB was not stapled to the receipt but stacked on the others at the desk of the final IO.
 

[scorecard]

Just curiosity because I need to go soon for a new multiple exit re-entry stamp.

 

A few weeks back it was announced that the chief at CM had been moved elsewhere.

 

Since that happened is there any noticeable change in the way things are organized, has processing become more smooth and faster? 

[sqwakvfr]

I was there on Tuesday afternoon.  “We have met the enemy and it is”.

 

Completed the 90 Day report in 45 minutes.  Efficient and from my count about 25 90 Day Reports were completed while I waited.

 

I believe these are some of the reasons the experience at CNX Immigration is long and frustrating

 

1) Bring a pen.  Do not expect an I/O or fellow foreigner to loan or give you a pen

2) If your ability to speak, understand and/or write English is limited(or nonexistent) then bring someone who can speak English at a conversational level.  It was like watching Abbott and Costello’s “Who’s on First” as a foreigner was trying to explain his visa problem in limited English to an I/O whose English Ability was just slightly better.  Otherwise consider hiring an Agent.

3) Do not cut in line and ask an I/O a question as he/she is completing a transaction for another foreigner.  This happened to me and the I/O had to pause and ponder this question:  “Why do you need copies?????”.  I said to myself <deleted>### do you not realize you are in Chiang Mai?  You never have enough copies.

4) The starting point is the desk on the left as one enters the building.  This is where you state the reason why you are there and get your magical “Queue” number.  This is where one should ask Questions.  

 

This is just my opinion based upon visits to CNX immigration.  The Immigration Officers are doing a good job.  As usual it was crowded and but things were getting done.  

 

[amexpat]

2 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I believe these are some of the reasons the experience at CNX Immigration is long and frustrating

 

One reason is people showing up in person to do 90 day reporting. 

[Mahseer]

Filed my 90 day online yesterday at 1430 and received confirmation at 2100 and that was on an iPad. Happy days.

[CMNightRider]

58 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

One reason is people showing up in person to do 90 day reporting. 

One reason people show up for their required 90 day report, is it is required to file this report by immigration for some unknown reason.  The second reason is not everyone has a computer, and the third reason is even if you have a computer, the immigration web site doesn't always accept or acknowledge people attempting to abide by this requirement online.    

[sqwakvfr]

The crowd showing up to do 90 Day Reports would be less if and when a reliable online reporting system is implemented.  Unfortunately I am Mac/IPad guy and so far I am not able(maybe because I am old) figure how to file a 90 Day report online.  Also, I live 15 minutes from the Immigration office so a mail in report doesn’t seem to make much sense.  

[Mahseer]

41 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I am Mac/IPad guy and so far I am not able(maybe because I am old)

None of these are limiting factors as I'm in the same boat. I submitted yesterday which was day 81 on the iPad and received confirmation same day.

[narkeddiver]

Visited Immigration today to get a re-entry permit and do my 90 day report (would normally do my 90 day by post but as I had to be there anyway ... ???? )

 

I arrived at 10:50 and left at 12:50 - re-entry permit took about 75 minutes and the 90 day report took about 45 minutes

 

One thing that caught me out was that the re-entry permit needed a copy of my TM-30 (very important document I was told) but the lady behind the information desk kindly did a photocopy for me while my documents were being checked

Edited December 12, 2018 by narkeddiver

[sqwakvfr]

Mahseer, thank you for the information.  I was finally able to get to the online 90 Day report page.  Through trial and error I was able to get to it on the IPad.  I just had to use Chrome and allow pop ups.  Next time I will attempt an online 90 Day report.  

[cusanus]

2 hours ago, Mahseer said:

None of these are limiting factors as I'm in the same boat. I submitted yesterday which was day 81 on the iPad and received confirmation same day.

There's a thread specific to 90 day reporting (online), http://bit.ly/2BgAL54. Online works most of the time, but not always. You might try leaving a space (or not) if putting an airline number, maybe leave it blank. Anyway, it's sure worth a try, don't be afraid of it. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by cusanus

[cusanus]

2 hours ago, Mahseer said:

None of these are limiting factors as I'm in the same boat. I submitted yesterday which was day 81 on the iPad and received confirmation same day.

There's a thread specific to 90 day reporting (online), http://bit.ly/2BgAL54, but it's full of very obnoxious and not particularly bright posters. Online works most of the time, but not always. You might try leaving a space (or not) if putting an airline number, maybe leave it blank. Anyway, it's sure worth a try, don't be afraid of it. 

[Sparkles]

Priority Lane. For my fellow oldies 75 and over here is my experience today, trust it is of some use.

 

My Thai wife and I were on the doorstep of the BB at KSK at 10.30 am to obtain the required letter.Out in 10 mins thanks to our long time contact Mr Sombat.

Took the chance that being eligible for the Priority Lane we might get processed today.

 

Arrived at Imm around 11am and understandably there was no parking so a U turn and into the Service Station where we were greeted by a  young girl asking did we want photocopies ,no thanks and of course wanting the 20 b fee no receipt ,no problem.

 

Went to the counter ouside with Priority Lane application form and was told "No more PL talk to counter inside" ,wasn't looking good and the place was packed which I knew would be likely due to last Monday being a holiday. Was told inside there is no more Priority Lane,no reason forthcoming but was handed a ticket R 34.

 

My left knee is pretty dicky at the moment and with no seats available a kindly officer offered me one of their chairs and we parked ourselves inside their space and waited, no R ticket no's came up on the screen only RE.

Giving it a while and knowing that sometimes the squeaking axle gets the grease I asked a passing officer "was it possible to get processed today as we have no idea of the waiting time"

 

She took us over to the officer who was sitting twiddling her thumbs with no customers at the Volunteer Visa section.

 

Immediatly she rejected my written, downloaded application form as it has been replaced by a new form ,seemingly same info different font.While I was filling it in she remarked to my wife in Thai "Why the balance is only 800,000 b it should be more like an extra 20,000 b.

I picked up on the converstaion and said to her its 800,000 b because that is what the law states and its been ok the last 11 renewals.     Her answer was  will let go through this time ???

 

More forms we produced which I duly signed , my photo copies of ALL passport pages were duly stamped and I had to sign them again.Going back 10 years,seems pointless.Yellow book was copied by her even I had already given them to her

 

We were then asked to wait for the photo op,signed more copies of photo info to be signed, and then of course it went upstairs to the boss for sign off.

 

45 mins later still no sign of its return just plastic baskets of passports being brought down and names called. 10 mins later the officer who had directed us to the spare officer asked "why do you not have your passport back ?" off she went and found it on another desk.

 

So all done by I think around 1pm .Staff, with some exceptions, worked through the lunch hour.Some interns who were struggling with some applicants questions took their place.

 

So the future or function of the "Priority Lane" system seemed today to shrouded in mystery it might well be back on tomorrow.

We did however get it done in 2 hours ,pretty good.

 

Finally just a word of warning if you do park over the road be very careful crossing that 6 lane road.The traffic today was unrelenting and a youngish girl seeing a gap sprinted only to lose her shoe half way over,she had the prescence of mind to keep going seek safety on the centre "island",

cheers

[davehowden]

Did my retirement extension based on income letter from BE yesterday (12/12/18).

Arrived about 12:00, got a space in the car park quite easily.

Took until about 1:30 to be seen by IO. He was polite and capable.

Documents taken were all the normal passport stuff plus 12 months of UK bank statements showing pension income plus Yellow Book, the IO may not have asked for the Yellow Book but he took the copies anyway.

Not wanted  was passbook copies of Thai bank account showing over 1,000,000 baht balance but only a few weeks seasoning.

Only 1 photo required.

Main delays were waiting for photo to be taken after finishing with the IO (about 45 mins) and then for sign-off by a higher God (another 45 mins).

Getting my passport back from the section dealing with that process was a bit hit and miss, fortunately my passport has a UK flag cover on it so I was able to spot it when the "giving back" process was going on. The young girl trying to announce the names of people to get their passport back had a tough time competing with the electronic number system announcements and the constant babel of people recounting their experiences.

I liked the electronic ticket/desk system which allowed me to keep track of what was going on.

Was finished by 15:30.

 

[JohnMidnight]

On 12/5/2018 at 11:56 PM, Sparkles said:

Apologies havent been yet although alll my paperwork is sitting here ready to go and has been for some time ,just need to go to the bank,just other priorities delayed my visit.

Imm do have a phone number on their web site they might tell you.

I downloaded the priority lane form from a link someone posted a while ago its just basic name address ,reason etc.Wouldnt be surprised if processing is up on the second floor, just a guess though.Last year at Promendada just turned up at 9-15am and out by 11.30 ish.

Hi,

I modified/posted that priority form.  

 

Went in yesterday (12th Dec)  to do my retirement extension.  Gave the Priority Lane form it to the clerk who was dishing out the queue numbers.  He read it, a uniformed lady appeared, she read it,  looked at me, laughed, said something to the clerk and moved off.  So, no priority, was given number R29, number R20 was on the screen.  (Obviously still the handsome fit young devil have always been????)

 

Rest went swimmingly.  Only gave a cursory glance at the Embassy letter (Irish).

 

He was satisfied with embassy letter, the completed TM7, scans of all stamped pages of my passport, plus scans of 1st Receipt of notification the latest 90 day report, the TM6 and 1900 Baht. 

 

He gave me two new forms to  sign,  re  knowing the consequences  of overstaying.  

 

After reading some of the stories on here I had also brought my documents proving income.  (Plus a completed new TM30, scans of house book, location of house on modified Google map,  etc etc. etc.  All unnecessary.)