Restless legs driving me crazy.

[tropo]

6 minutes ago, CGW said:

Grounding the electrical energy in your body to earth by walking outside on "grass" barefoot, the theory being that if you live in condo or whatever the body never gets to naturally ground as it is supposed to and builds up excess energy.

Surely walking on any floor in your condo is grounding. All the floors would be grounded through the structure. Think of a condo as a cave and your floor is the floor of a cave.

[GarryP]

36 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I know a lot of people suffer from it, that doesn't help me to get a good nights sleep though. Have read enough to know there is no quick fix. What's your remedy to relieve the symptoms?

I don't "suffer" from it. I don't often notice it, but when I do it does not bother me in the slightest. I recognize it for what it is,  an indication that I am falling into deeper sleep. In fact I find it quite comforting as even if a jerk wakes me, I know I will be asleep very shortly thereafter. However, I understand that some may get anxious about the jerks. Sorry I can't help.

[CGW]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

Surely walking on any floor in your condo is grounding. All the floors would be grounded through the structure. Think of a condo as a cave and your floor is the floor of a cave.

I didn't write the theory behind this ? , can see what you are saying, though obviously you would have a better ground going directly to earth.

There is a lot on the web about "grounding the human body" just a suggestion that may help the OP? If it helps.................. ? 

If not - just a suggestion, I have no positive or negative feelings ?

 

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, CGW said:

I didn't write the theory behind this ? , can see what you are saying, though obviously you would have a better ground going directly to earth.

There is a lot on the web about "grounding the human body" just a suggestion that may help the OP? If it helps.................. ? 

If not - just a suggestion, I have no positive or negative feelings ?

 

Yeah... have seen these theories too. If walking barefoot on grass is necessary for staying healthy, I'm in trouble. My only barefoot walking is at home in the condo. I'll have to study up on it. Walking barefoot on the beach could be a better option as the sand massages the feet.

[Lacessit]

The symptom may be related to a neurological disorder, such as too many nerve messages from the brain. Massage works for me; however, if I have severe leg cramps quinine works a treat. Would need a prescription.

[giddyup]

48 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I don't "suffer" from it. I don't often notice it, but when I do it does not bother me in the slightest. I recognize it for what it is,  an indication that I am falling into deeper sleep. In fact I find it quite comforting as even if a jerk wakes me, I know I will be asleep very shortly thereafter. However, I understand that some may get anxious about the jerks. Sorry I can't help.

You aren't talking about what I'm experiencing at all, and I would hardly consider it "normal" because others suffer from it. I am talking about the inability to fall asleep because the strong jerks wake me every time I nod off.

Edited September 21, 2018 by giddyup

[giddyup]

55 minutes ago, tropo said:

I don't have the condition, but have you tried a magnesium supplement immediately before bed? I pop 200mg before I go to bed and it really improves my sleep. Most people are magnesium deficient and it is important to maintain proper function of nerves and muscles. I've seen RLS on a list of conditions they use magnesium to treat. I would go for 400 - 500mg per day. Even if it doesn't fix your RLS, there are a lot of other benefits from taking it.

 

Read my opening post.

[giddyup]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The symptom may be related to a neurological disorder, such as too many nerve messages from the brain. Massage works for me; however, if I have severe leg cramps quinine works a treat. Would need a prescription.

Nothing like cramps.

[giddyup]

43 minutes ago, CGW said:

I didn't write the theory behind this ? , can see what you are saying, though obviously you would have a better ground going directly to earth.

There is a lot on the web about "grounding the human body" just a suggestion that may help the OP? If it helps.................. ? 

If not - just a suggestion, I have no positive or negative feelings ?

 

I live in a house not a condo and spend a lot of time barefoot in the garden.

[GarryP]

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You aren't talking about what I'm experiencing at all, and I would hardly consider it "normal" because others suffer from it. I am talking about the inability to fall asleep because the jerks wake me every time I nod off.

I don't believe that your problem is the hypnic jerks per se, but rather the anxiety they are causing you.  Many others have them but they are able to get to sleep. It is possible the jerks are causing anxiety, which in turn is causing insomnia. 

 

Self hypnosis could be worth checking out.  There are a few downloads out there that may be worth trying. For example, https://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/sleep-problems/drift-off   

[Kieran00001]

It can be related to minor blood clots forming in your legs, are you sitting down a lot during the day?

[Kieran00001]

29 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Read my opening post.

 

Not all magnesium supplements are alike, magnesium can be in many forms, some will offer little help if any at all, what you need is magnesium malate chelate, your doctor may agree to try you on injections if you haven't already tried it, the tablets from the shop might work but it could take years to have an effect.

[tropo]

36 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Read my opening post.

Sorry! You did try magnesium.

 

How much magnesium did you take? Most supplements don't provide enough. It's a problematic supplement as you have to find a source that doesn't increase bowel motility too much... so getting 400 - 500mg can be difficult. I went through quite a number of them until I found a good one. Currently, I have 4 different types at home, but found Magnesium Bisglycinate the best. I have a strong sports multivitamin-mineral supplement and that only provides 80mg of magnesium. It uses magnesium oxide which isn't very bioavailable.  

[giddyup]

41 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I don't believe that your problem is the hypnic jerks per se, but rather the anxiety they are causing you.  Many others have them but they are able to get to sleep. It is possible the jerks are causing anxiety, which in turn is causing insomnia. 

 

Self hypnosis could be worth checking out.  There are a few downloads out there that may be worth trying. For example, https://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/sleep-problems/drift-off   

So you know my symptoms and what I'm experiencing better than me? The jerks aren't a figment, they are real and uncontrollable.

[giddyup]

29 minutes ago, tropo said:

Sorry! You did try magnesium.

 

How much magnesium did you take? Most supplements don't provide enough. It's a problematic supplement as you have to find a source that doesn't increase bowel motility too much... so getting 400 - 500mg can be difficult. I went through quite a number of them until I found a good one. Currently, I have 4 different types at home, but found Magnesium Bisglycinate the best. I have a strong sports multivitamin-mineral supplement and that only provides 80mg of magnesium. It uses magnesium oxide which isn't very bioavailable.  

I'm taking 400mg Magnesium Citrate a day without any side effects, don't know if a bigger dose would be needed or not. However, I think Citrate maybe the wrong Magnesium for my condition, I should be taking Threonate.

Edited September 21, 2018 by giddyup

[faraday]

Have you seen a Neurologist, maybe they could help?

[leafmould]

Have you tried traditional medicine?  A strong Thai massage or reflexology could help. If your in the north, tok Sen would help. Tho I've had good and bad ones. There's a guy in chiang mai hospital, the old dental hospital, on the superhighway just left of mae rim road, called Kun (now Dr) Sawat that's really good. He did my legs once and it was amazing. He also does guasa, a therapy that's as old as acupuncture, it can be painful but really good for muscle, tendon and neurological stuff. Other good acupuncturists will know guasa. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by leafmould
Forgot a bit

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, faraday said:

Have you seen a Neurologist, maybe they could help?

Next step.

[faraday]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23703310/

 

Extract from the above.

 

"The first-line drugs continue to be dopaminergic medications, including pramipexole, ropinirole, rotigotine transdermal patch and levodopa. However, the phenomenon of RLS augmentation, a paradoxical worsening of symptoms by dopaminergic treatment remains as major problem in treatment of RLS, and prevention of augmentation is one of the main goals in the management of RLS."

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, faraday said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23703310/

 

Extract from the above.

 

"The first-line drugs continue to be dopaminergic medications, including pramipexole, ropinirole, rotigotine transdermal patch and levodopa. However, the phenomenon of RLS augmentation, a paradoxical worsening of symptoms by dopaminergic treatment remains as major problem in treatment of RLS, and prevention of augmentation is one of the main goals in the management of RLS."

Not encouraging.

[tropo]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I'm taking 400mg Magnesium Citrate a day without any side effects, don't know if a bigger dose would be needed or not. However, I think Citrate maybe the wrong Magnesium for my condition, I should be taking Threonate.

I have that one too, in powder form. It's quite bioavailable. I think if you're taking that much every day and not getting any results (reducing your RLS), then no type of magnesium will help. You could try another type, but it's a long shot.

 

The next thing I would suggest is boron. It's deficient in most of the population as it is not found in most soils these days due to farming practices. I get my boron from borax powder.

 

Here are some posts I read on "treato.com": https://treato.com/Boron,RLS/?a=s

 

I was already thinking of boron before I read these:

 

 

I suffer with restless legs and boron helps he;ps.

December 13, 2016  |  earthclinic.com

"I suffer with restless legs and boron helps he;ps. I take it together with magnesium. This combination helps to 'flush' calcium out of the cells. As we age the calcium slowly begins to build up in the cells where it causes calcification and aging. Once this process starts it is hard to get the muscles to relax. I sleep well and feel relaxed when boron is added to my magnesium. I take 1/8 tsp..."

 

 

---

Just wanted to comment on the stiffness someone mentioned ...

September 25, 2016  |  earthclinic.com

"Just wanted to comment on the stiffness someone mentioned in an RLS post. I read recently about ...I read about boron deficiency and how stiffness was one side effect of it. The remedy: Borax. Seems ...I did as directed and added a heaping tsp of borax to a quart of water. I then took 4 tablespoons of this mixture and added it to my iced tea, although any beverage would work. After a couple of..."

 

 

 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

I have that one too, in powder form. It's quite bioavailable. I think if you're taking that much every day and not getting any results (reducing your RLS), then no type of magnesium will help. You could try another type, but it's a long shot.

 

The next thing I would suggest is boron. It's deficient in most of the population as it is not found in most soils these days due to farming practices. I get my boron from borax powder.

 

Here are some posts I read on "treato.com": https://treato.com/Boron,RLS/?a=s

 

 

Anything is worth a try I suppose, but as you said about Magnesium, the benefits may take some time to take effect.

[tropo]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Anything is worth a try I suppose, but as you said about Magnesium, the benefits may take some time to take effect.

Although I don't take it for RSL, boron has been the most effective supplement I've ever taken, with amazing results... and the cheapest too, so it's not just "anything" - have a good read up on it. I noticed the benefits after my first dose.

 

Anyway, I've said enough. Good luck with it.

[wombat]

I'm no doctor....

have you been using diazepam'y type things for a while?

[toolpush]

Over the years I would suffer RLS occasionally while in bed trying to go to sleep or in an airplane. I could never figure out why I would get this at seemingly random times. A few months back I had a craving for instant noodles and over the period of a few days, I consumed copious amounts of them. At the same time, I started experiencing severe RLS every single afternoon and night. I put two and two together and realized that the RLS must have come about because of the instant noodle "overdose". I do know that instant noodles are chock full of Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) and I now believe that is what caused the RLS. I have since religiously avoided all known sources of MSG and have not suffered RLS again.

[GarryP]

34 minutes ago, giddyup said:

So you know my symptoms and what I'm experiencing better than me? The jerks aren't a figment, they are real and uncontrollable.

I know the jerks are real. I never said they were a figment of your imagination. I even mentioned that I have experienced them. And who the hell can control them. Jeez.

 

What I said was that perhaps the jerks are causing or caused by anxiety.  And it is the resulting anxiety that is keeping you awake.  There are articles on the subject. 

 

If you have done all you can to address the jerks in terms of medications, supplements, etc. and nothing has worked, perhaps it may be worth looking at something else, e.g. anxiety.    

 

[giddyup]

21 minutes ago, wombat said:

I'm no doctor....

have you been using diazepam'y type things for a while?

No, very rarely.

[giddyup]

22 minutes ago, toolpush said:

Over the years I would suffer RLS occasionally while in bed trying to go to sleep or in an airplane. I could never figure out why I would get this at seemingly random times. A few months back I had a craving for instant noodles and over the period of a few days, I consumed copious amounts of them. At the same time, I started experiencing severe RLS every single afternoon and night. I put two and two together and realized that the RLS must have come about because of the instant noodle "overdose". I do know that instant noodles are chock full of Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) and I now believe that is what caused the RLS. I have since religiously avoided all known sources of MSG and have not suffered RLS again.

Never eat it, at least not intentionally.

[Jeffkp]

I have the same problem. It's one of the symptoms for sleep apnea. I had a sleep test done and was prescribed a cpap machine. It has relieved (among other problems!) my restless legs. Might be worth looking into.

Good luck, in any care.

[xtrnuno41]

of course you can google, you already tried vitamins (right ones?), hot baths, no more coffee, alcohol, smoking, stretching of the legs.

More walking, activate legs. As medicines they came up with  Dopamine, Benzodiazepinen, Opiates, Anticonvulsants