Overseas pensioners cheated by the British government

[jamie2009]

53 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Many of us do. About 12% of income tax goes on state pension so we are partially funding our own frozen pension.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask.

My Tax Allowance goes against my State Pension, what is left is allowed on my Private Pension but not enough so I pay tax on it.

People were conned in some respects, you Tax relief on Private Pension contributions but pay tax when you receive so is it tax defferred ?

[AbeSurd]

1 hour ago, jamie2009 said:

As far as I know the you don’t go on a computer system, when they scan your Passport at U.K.all they are doing is making sure that the info on the magnetic strip is the same as on your Passport.

At Newcastle they now have electronic gates at Passport Control so no I.O. looks at your Passport.

As you don’t pass through Immigration when you leave the U.K. they don’t know if you have left the U.K. I travel 3/4 times a year from the U.K to Thailand.

When I my Thai lady departed the U.K last year we didn’t have to go through U.K. immigration, not like Thailand, 90 Day reporting and before exiting you have too pass through Immigration.

A few years ago a guy who once worked for UK immigration gave a talk at the expat club I go to. Talking about UK passport holders he said something like, "For some reason they only log you when you enter the UK, not when you leave".

That was a few years ago. We're now told we're in the age of Big Data.

At Manchester airport the electronic gates you refer to are used for both departures and arrivals. They're surely a perfect way of harvesting Big Data for the state.

And then there's the airlines who take your passport details. I'm sure it's very likely they also contribute data to the state.

[jamie2009]

41 minutes ago, AbeSurd said:

A few years ago a guy who once worked for UK immigration gave a talk at the expat club I go to. Talking about UK passport holders he said something like, "For some reason they only log you when you enter the UK, not when you leave".

That was a few years ago. We're now told we're in the age of Big Data.

At Manchester airport the electronic gates you refer to are used for both departures and arrivals. They're surely a perfect way of harvesting Big Data for the state.

And then there's the airlines who take your passport details. I'm sure it's very likely they also contribute data to the state.

I think if they were found out too be ‘harvesting’ your data there could be an issue under the data protection act more so the if it was the airlines

[HHTel]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

The government needs to change the law, which could be relatively easy by making pensions only payable in the UK then international agreement would not come into it.

It's not about where the pension is paid but where the recipient lives.  Mine is paid in the UK into my UK bank account, however it's still frozen.

[Tofer]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

Yes, i was 49 years and one incomplete year, my birthday being in August. I do not think you can actually achieve 50 years, would need to be one day short.

Before coming to Thailand I had an ex council house and the one next to me was still council. The first neighbour was very good but she moved away and was replaced by 2 unmarried 17 year olds. The had no intention of ever working and in due course they will get the full pension after having lived off the state throughout their lives.

Please, please let's not start down that topic, my blood Is boiling already!

 

Although retired in Thailand I still have investment property in UK and continue to pay tax on the income. So I'm still funding those wasters...

Edited October 11, 2018 by Tofer

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

That's not what I said.

If we're going to argue that we're saving the UK money by not using the NHS, the police, the roads, the street lighting etc etc, then we should expect to hear the counter argument that we're also 'costing' the country by taking our money abroad.

It would probably be best for us to argue that the situation balances itself out.

I refrained from commenting on your earlier post, but sorry, this is utter tosh. 

 

You get a pension on the years contributions credited, the pension is a contractual right according to the NI, who have provided me with statements clearly telling me what I'm ENTITLED to. So what and where I spend it on is entirely my choice.

[AbeSurd]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

I refrained from commenting on your earlier post, but sorry, this is utter tosh. 

 

You get a pension on the years contributions credited, the pension is a contractual right according to the NI, who have provided me with statements clearly telling me what I'm ENTITLED to. So what and where I spend it on is entirely my choice.

I agree. You're entitled to spend your pension where you want.

And it's good to see how admirably keen you are to fly the flag for UK entitlements and regulations. Well done.

[AbeSurd]

2 hours ago, jamie2009 said:

I think if they were found out too be ‘harvesting’ your data there could be an issue under the data protection act more so the if it was the airlines

If immigration and the airlines are linked, maybe.

But I'd have thought UK immigration was free to collect (and keep) all the data it wanted from its own systems. And if fraud, for example, was suspected - also free (or even obliged) to share this info with the Dept for Work & Pensions.

[jamie2009]

2 minutes ago, AbeSurd said:

If immigration and the airlines are linked, maybe.

But I'd have thought UK immigration was free to collect (and keep) all the data it wanted from its own systems. And if fraud, for example, was suspected - also free (or even obliged) to share this info with the Dept for Work & Pensions.

I would think the only Data on the Immigration System is people who they or the Police are actually looking for.

 

I wouldn’t think they have the manpower to collate all the details of who arrives and leaves the U.K, there must thousand if not hundreds of thousands not unless the HMRC or the authorities requested it.

 

Immigration aren’t interested in petty criminals who are defrauding the system of a few hundred pounds I don’t think.

 

[AbeSurd]

4 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

I would think the only Data on the Immigration System is people who they or the Police are actually looking for.

 

I wouldn’t think they have the manpower to collate all the details of who arrives and leaves the U.K, there must thousand if not hundreds of thousands not unless the HMRC or the authorities requested it.

 

Immigration aren’t interested in petty criminals who are defrauding the system of a few hundred pounds I don’t think.

 

In the age of Big Data it's no longer a matter of manpower. It's machines collecting the data, and machines comparing the data with other data. And then machines sending you a message that all isn't how it should be and could you explain yourself please.

[ivor bigun]

I would think the only Data on the Immigration System is people who they or the Police are actually looking for.
 
I wouldn’t think they have the manpower to collate all the details of who arrives and leaves the U.K, there must thousand if not hundreds of thousands not unless the HMRC or the authorities requested it.
 
Immigration aren’t interested in petty criminals who are defrauding the system of a few hundred pounds I don’t think.
 

Dead right,thats how isis "soldiers"are coming back into the country in their hundreds ,they even go on claiming benifits and they cant do anything

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jamie2009]

12 minutes ago, AbeSurd said:

In the age of Big Data it's no longer a matter of manpower. It's machines collecting the data, and machines comparing the data with other data. And then machines sending you a message that all isn't how it should be and could you explain yourself please.

42.5 million U.K. citizens have Passports, when passing through Passport Control I don’t think any system would be that quick too highlight an individual ?

[gk10002000]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:27 AM, Just Weird said:

By refusing to pay them the annual increases that other pensioners who have made the same contributions receive, it's explained in the link. 

So what was their officially stated rationale for this?  I can guess they figure since you are not in the UK you are not paying sales tax or other taxes which go into the treasury?  Just curious

[ivor bigun]

Do you know that 87% of reported benifit frauds are never even followed up,check it out on google

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jamie2009]

16 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Do you know that 87% of reported benifit frauds are never even followed up,check it out on google

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

This article makes interesting reading comparing Benefit Fraud v Tax Evasion, I think they need to concentrating more on Tax Evasion.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/62461/benefit-fraud-v-tax-evasion-which-costs-more

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, HHTel said:

It's not about where the pension is paid but where the recipient lives.  Mine is paid in the UK into my UK bank account, however it's still frozen.

You missed the point, that is the current arrangement, and it is not about any one individual, it is about the fact that the DWP can pay the state pension anywhere in the world and in doing so there are international agreements that come into play. 

Remove the "anywhere in the world" and it becomes a different ball game, but there is more chance of pigs flying than seeing any change.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, jamie2009 said:

My Tax Allowance goes against my State Pension, what is left is allowed on my Private Pension but not enough so I pay tax on it.

 

Tax allowances work the same for everyone, the DWP does not collect tax.

[jamie2009]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Tax allowances work the same for everyone, the DWP does not collect tax.

I was saying that The State Pension is taxable, some people are not aware of this.

[Bangkok Barry]

Sorry, apparently the article is from The Times (see the very end of the article).

[Just Weird]

15 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So what was their officially stated rationale for this?  I can guess they figure since you are not in the UK you are not paying sales tax or other taxes which go into the treasury?  Just curious

No idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was no official reason given, pensioners would probably just have been presented with a fait accompli.

[HHTel]

As has been pointed out, the state pension increments are only paid to expats living in a country that has a reciprocal arrangement.  Thailand does not.  The Philippines along with other countries do.  It's nothing to do with morality.

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  

 

[jamie2009]

8 hours ago, HHTel said:

As has been pointed out, the state pension increments are only paid to expats living in a country that has a reciprocal arrangement.  Thailand does not.  The Philippines along with other countries do.  It's nothing to do with morality.

I can understand if you lived in a country that was colonised by the U.K. many years ago although not all have a reciprocal agreement but why the Philippines ?

[geoffbezoz]

On 10/12/2018 at 2:13 AM, sandyf said:

Tax allowances work the same for everyone, the DWP does not collect tax.

Yes the tax allowance is only 11,500 GBP  pa so anything above that is taxable.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, jamie2009 said:

I can understand if you lived in a country that was colonized by the U.K. many years ago although not all have a reciprocal agreement but why the Philippines ?

Don't know why Uk & Philippines made reciprocal arrangement maybe because the capitol was colonized in 1762.

What find strange is Uk pensions are frozen in Canada, Australia & NZ but not America. 

[HHTel]

3 hours ago, jamie2009 said:

I can understand if you lived in a country that was colonised by the U.K. many years ago although not all have a reciprocal agreement but why the Philippines ?

We keep coming back to countries that have been colonised by the UK.  It has nothing to do with it.  Countries which have an agreement and reciprocal arrangements with the UK will give expats living there annual increments.

 

To demonstrate:

You will get annual increments in the USA but your pension is frozen in Canada.

 

 

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, HHTel said:

We keep coming back to countries that have been colonised by the UK.  It has nothing to do with it.  Countries which have an agreement and reciprocal arrangements with the UK will give expats living there annual increments.

 

To demonstrate:

You will get annual increments in the USA but your pension is frozen in Canada.

 

 

The reciprocal arrangements are where the UK has entered into agreements on double contributions and social security. The details  of pensions uprating is only one aspect of such agreements.

[jamie2009]

30 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The reciprocal arrangements are where the UK has entered into agreements on double contributions and social security. The details  of pensions uprating is only one aspect of such agreements.

Yes but I think everyone would like to know how and why the reasons those agreements were made.

Obviously there won’t be anymore entered into due too the cost.

[SheungWan]

On 10/7/2018 at 2:38 PM, Different said:

Holy crab, governments know better pensioners money should be invested for the benefit of paying them back.  If pension fund was misused then government should be held accountable for serious negligence.

The money that pensioners pay in prior to retirement is not their money. There is no pot. Paid in money goes to pay current pensioners and other things. Same goes for most State employee pensions eg teachers.

[SheungWan]

On 10/12/2018 at 3:27 AM, jamie2009 said:

I was saying that The State Pension is taxable, some people are not aware of this.

No it isn't. However on receipt of that pension, if your allowance is breached, then your other income will be taxed.

Edited October 13, 2018 by SheungWan