BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Pedrogaz]

20 hours ago, colinneil said:

British embassy are a total waste of space.

 

The 'can't-doers' of the embassy world. Totally useless.

[Benmart]

19 hours ago, garyk said:

This is just the beginning, US embassy is next if not already. Then you will see land seizures! IMO the laws will then start getting really tough. 

We ain't seen nothing yet!

Fortune telling is not my profession.

[Ned]

If I'm not mistaken these new regulations make your Thai bankbook the primary document. No 800K, 3 months before extension application.....no visa extension. If you go the 65K per month route , the bottom lime is you'll need to show 800k , 3months before.

Isn't it as simple as that?

Doesn't this make all this discussion of income letters etc totally immaterial.

[killala]

Ah well, there will always be the good old immigration cops who for a fee would sell their grannies so don’t worry chaps, a few thousand well placed Baht will see those on a tight budget good for the next twelve months and so on...

[MikeN]

19 hours ago, Esso49 said:

so what is the point of the letter then if they also have the real bank book pages as proof I wonder ?

So they can file it away, with the other mountain of paperwork.....or do you want them to keep your bank book ? Photocopies of your passbook can easily be doctored, not so easy with an official bank letterhead and a signature.

[sandyf]

45 minutes ago, smedly said:

I agree and sounds like an improvement

 

Yet to be clarified by Thai Immigration 

Wouldn't be a lot different to what they do now on combination, where they take the annual income and add an available balance to get over the 800K. It would just be that they took the annual figure from your Thai bank statement rather than an embassy letter.

Under the circumstances, next year may not be the best time to be transferring GBP to Thailand so I will be looking at a level consistent with a marriage extension.

One would hope that there is not too much 'clarification' and there is not more to this than meets the eye.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

Clearly the UK Embassy, Thai Immigration or both don’t “give a stuff” that this could cause huge problems for people who have lived in the country for a long time and established . Now it’s two months notice of a huge change ! It’s all about sending a message .... we don’t really want you !


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Not sure how there can be a "we don’t really want you !" message considering Thai immigration has said nothing. The 2 month notice is the UK embassy. 

[simoh1490]

The article in the OP reads, "Thai Immigrations wants us to verify your income and we are unable to do this", the story is therefore not about Thai Immigration but about the UK Embassy cutting back further on their services, if that's even possible to do!

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

Clearly the UK Embassy, Thai Immigration or both don’t “give a stuff” that this could cause huge problems for people who have lived in the country for a long time and established . Now it’s two months notice of a huge change ! It’s all about sending a message .... we don’t really want you !


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

What a load of rubbish, if you had read soalbundys post earlier on he stated that his wife had spoken to the IO and are still accepting letters from the Embassies, it's just that the British Embassy has stopped issueing them. So if you want to apportion blame, it seems to me your anger should be directed at the BE.

IMO maybe the Embassy is just covering its backside, for whatever reason.

Edited October 9, 2018 by vogie

[Arkady]

19 hours ago, Luckysilk said:

I bet the rest will follow, this is most likely a request by the Thais to scrutinize the monthly income.

 

Knowing a few Brits who did the two bank money transfer scam - transfer funds from bank A to bank b account or from the wife's account monthly and showing the Embassy they have the "income".

 

 

From what I recall from threads a few years ago it seems that Immigration figured out that the British Embassy was not asking to see evidence of pension and simply allowed pensioners to make a statory declaration of their pension income. Then they asked to see a pension letter. I guess that Immigration has now pressured them to certify that the pension really exists, rather than certify that the pensioner has declared it exists. HMG will not do this. So I guess the embassy has thrown in the towel and all the others, save perhaps the North Korean and Nigerian Embassies that still need the income will follow suit.

 

In recent years the British Consular Service has narrowed down the list of things it will certify from anything that looked reasonable to a few clearly defined items. Soon it will be down to certified copies of passports that it will probably outsource ask you wait 3 weeks for and return courier fees for.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

"Too much paperwork" at the Canadian embassy? The British embassy used to charge fifty quid for the pleasure of a generic letter with a few lines entered to personalise, and a stamp. At that rate, why have just one Ambassador to Thailand doing absolutely nothing useful, when they could afford ten?

[Bangkok Barry]

20 hours ago, colinneil said:

British embassy are a total waste of space.

 

 

It won't be long until the 'embassy' will be a table set up in an English pub.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Arkady said:

 

From what I recall from threads a few years ago it seems that Immigration figured out that the British Embassy was not asking to see evidence of pension and simply allowed pensioners to make a statory declaration of their pension income. Then they asked to see a pension letter. I guess that Immigration has now pressured them to certify that the pension really exists, rather than certify that the pensioner has declared it exists. HMG will not do this. So I guess the embassy has thrown in the towel and all the others, save perhaps the North Korean and Nigerian Embassies that still need the income will follow suit.

 

In recent years the British Consular Service has narrowed down the list of things it will certify from anything that looked reasonable to a few clearly defined items. Soon it will be down to certified copies of passports that it will probably outsource ask you wait 3 weeks for and return courier fees for.

And why should the UK Embassy do different from what the US Embassy does, is not self-certification sufficient for both countries!

[JackThompson]

 

1 hour ago, asiaexpat said:

2 hours ago, swifty5x5 said:

I just went to get my new visa and for a fee the agent put the money in my account went to immigration did our thing and took the money back out. No problem

If this is not a troll then the poster can expect a visit from Immigration and deportation once they read this. The practice mentioned is exactly what Big Joke is prosecuting. 

Many agencies have public ads advertising exactly this - "sponsored" extensions.  Any raids, yet?  I would not be surprised to see a "sacrifice" of a few "bad farang agents," for show, but will they explore the finances of those who approved the "no seasoned money" apps?  That's where the rubber hits the road. 

 

Consider how high that money likely goes up a pyramid-scheme, and how a "crackdown" on in-person applications using embassy income-letters would serve to increase the agent-sponsored income-stream.

 

Any IOs who get busted, are likely those trying to run their own private-enterprise - taking "tips" that don't feed the larger-scheme.  Such sacrifices make for good public-relations / TV viewing, but don't address the real problem.

 

I am not a fan of agents, btw.  I went out for a Non-O ME Visa, to avoid being forced to wallow in the agent-system mire.  If the published rules were followed in every office, I would be on an annual extension.  And, yes, I had Thai bank-book proof behind my income-letter, but they weren't interested in that.  They wanted agent-money.

[Caine]

It’s the Thais, demanding all the silly old sods living out there permanently deposite a wedge into a dodgy Thai bank account before the country goes belly up. Then it’s bye bye wedge another scam they’ve thought up.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Caine said:

It’s the Thais, demanding all the silly old sods living out there permanently deposite a wedge into a dodgy Thai bank account before the country goes belly up. Then it’s bye bye wedge another scam they’ve thought up.

Dodgy bank account? You really are talking rubbish. Been here 9 years with a Thai bank account, never had a problem, so what's "dodgy" about it? Who are these 'silly old sods" you are talking about?

[TPI]

20 hours ago, mfd101 said:

It's pretty obvious that, whatever it was called and whatever the Thai authorities thought or think (assuming they do), the annual declaration of income could not possibly be verified by ANY embassy even though you produce documents in support. Embassies are not a detective force. All ANY of them have ever done in reality is to witness YOUR signature on some form of affidavit or statutory declaration, with or without some supporting doco.

 

If the Thais NOW want REAL proof of income, then demonstration of funds moving more or less regularly into Thailand will be the only way to do it, I should think. Whether those funds have to touch down in a Thai financial institution is an interesting question. In my case, since my large-scale movement of funds for house building ended 18 months ago, I almost invariably use BKK Bank atms to debit from my Australian accounts for daily living funds. These rarely go into my BKK Bank account - I just take the cash & run. When I'm in BKK, I use Citibank atms so no cash touches down in a Thai institution.

 

But of course, I'm still bringing funds into Thailand & spending them here ...

It only costs $22 to transfer funds from Oz to a Thai bank, the funds are transferred at the TT rate so is pretty fair! I've used the print of my statement for nearly 10 years when I've renewed my visa (retirement). the Oz embassy has always ruled that the stat dec they issue is useless in Thailand! It is only valid if used in Oz, that is why they don't bother to check on the veracity of any doco for the Thai govt.

[Nurseynutcase]

I use the confirmation letter of proof of income from the British Embassy.  i send original copies of my P60s and house rental agreement.  The cost of transferring funds on a monthly basis would be astronomical as i have 5 different pension providers, plus the house rental.  Also i need to leave funds in the UK to cover any costs associated with my house.

 

i do not have any savings so where would that put me next year?  Do i take along all my bank statements?  Would the local IO really be bothered to wade through so much paperwork?  I do not think so.

 

Might move to another country but after 4 years here I really do not want to.

 

I do not think I will be alone with this sort of problem.

[Kmar]

"I bet within five years they'll probably completely stop renewing passports too - via outsourcing or other means."

 

It already does. Passport and Visa applications (for Thais to visit the UK) are handled by a comany called VFS Global, an Indian company listed on the Swiss stock exchange and in it to make a profit. It has offices in Chiang Mai and in the Consular section in BKK and charges (extortionately) for its services. Worse, It, backed up by the British Consul and government on the pretext of security, insistes that individulas have to go to BKK to renew passports - twice (application and collection). If the applications and passports were transported to/from the UK in a diplomatic pouch I could (just) accept it, but they are not, VFS Global uses DHL, so what is more secure than sending it to/from its own offices as opposed to directly to/from one's home? Nothing.

 

It cost me over £300 in expenses to renew my son's passport, but that is immaterial, I'm just a UK tax-paying citizen, someone else is making a profit and that's all that matters.

 

The degradation of consular services and the introduction of "in it for profit" companies began during Theresa May's stint as Home Secretary, now she's running the UK. Expect it to be privatised soon after Brexit; someone's got to make a profit and our taxes are much better spent on something else, somewhere else, but it's a mystery where. 

[Wake Up]

Bangkok Bank has offices in NYC and London. The London Office is on one of the most expensive business addresses in London and gorgeous decorated. Thai billionaires and millionaires exist and Bangkok Bank is recognized as a world secure bank. Some argue that thai banks are third world but they simply are misinformed. And the Thai government has plenty of foreign reserves.  There are countries to be worried about with your banking needs (Italy, Greece, Russia, Turkey, Iran)  but Thailand is not one of them. Put your 800 k in an account and go have a nice day. ✌️

[hlj]

My retirement pension goes into a bank in the US I then withdraw my monthly spending out by ATM can or could a person use his or her US bank statement for proof of income and monies spent in Thailand? My monthly moneys are spent on car , house , food and clothing along with entertainment.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Nurseynutcase said:

I use the confirmation letter of proof of income from the British Embassy.  i send original copies of my P60s and house rental agreement.  The cost of transferring funds on a monthly basis would be astronomical as i have 5 different pension providers, plus the house rental.  Also i need to leave funds in the UK to cover any costs associated with my house.

 

i do not have any savings so where would that put me next year?  Do i take along all my bank statements?  Would the local IO really be bothered to wade through so much paperwork?  I do not think so.

 

Might move to another country but after 4 years here I really do not want to.

 

I do not think I will be alone with this sort of problem.

If you move to another country won't they have a British Embassy there, I think what we need to find out is how and if the Thai Immigration will accept proof of our monies.

[Miami007]

Maybe this is a stupid question but:

In order to get a retirement visa I need to have THB 800,000 in a bank in Thailand for 3 months before I apply for the visa.

In order to get a Thai bank account I need to show proof of residency.  How do I get a Residency Card when I need to have money in the bank for 3 months before getting a Retirement visa to live in the country long-term?  

Seems to be a case of a cat chasing its own tail...

 

And BTW, opening a bank account in ANY foreign country is a major headache - I have a EU passport, live in the USA and wanted to open an account in the UK about 3 years ago.  Such a difficult process that I eventually gave up.  LLoy'ds bank at one time sent me a check for GBP 100 for the inconvenience and hassle.  When I wanted to cash the check at a Lloyd's branch I was told that I could not do that but only deposit it into an account....

 

 

[Moonlover]

15 hours ago, wgdanson said:

That may cause a problem to the increasing number of us, including me, who now use Transfer Wise to transfer funds from overseas.

 

15 hours ago, wgdanson said:

It says FTT on my online bank statement when I do a T'wise transfer from UK to Bkk Bank.

Why should it cause a problem? TransferWise probably provides the best way of proving that funds have been transferred, from abroad into a Thai bank account.

 

Every time you carry out a transaction with TW a confirmation slip is generated, which can be downloaded as a PDF file. It provides absolute proof of the transfer from a foreign source into a Thai account.

 

We don't yet know what the Immigration offices will be asking for, but I am absolutely adamant that I will NOT be handing over a year's worth of my bank statements. That is one intrusion too far into my personal affairs as far as I'm concerned.

 

I shall either go to Savannakket for a  multi-entry, or return to Egypt where I do not even have to apply for an extension.

[Time Traveller]

34 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

The article in the OP reads, "Thai Immigrations wants us to verify your income and we are unable to do this", the story is therefore not about Thai Immigration but about the UK Embassy cutting back further on their services, if that's even possible to do!

Not really. As I stated before, nowadays it's almost impossible for an Embassy to verify an income amount. All you can do is estimate, or verify last year's Taxable income per your tax return. For many people their Income (the one that thailand want verified) depends upon investment returns from retirement funds or other investments which vary month on month. 

What the Thai immigration are asking is just impossible in practice, so the British Embassy called their bluff and will stop this stupidity. Good that they are taking a stand.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Time Traveller

[Peterw42]

28 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

From what I recall from threads a few years ago it seems that Immigration figured out that the British Embassy was not asking to see evidence of pension and simply allowed pensioners to make a statory declaration of their pension income. Then they asked to see a pension letter. I guess that Immigration has now pressured them to certify that the pension really exists, rather than certify that the pensioner has declared it exists. HMG will not do this. So I guess the embassy has thrown in the towel and all the others, save perhaps the North Korean and Nigerian Embassies that still need the income will follow suit.

 

In recent years the British Consular Service has narrowed down the list of things it will certify from anything that looked reasonable to a few clearly defined items. Soon it will be down to certified copies of passports that it will probably outsource ask you wait 3 weeks for and return courier fees for.

British income letter isnt a Statutory declaration, its a consulate written consulate signed letter, different to Australia, Canada, US etc. 

[superal]

30 minutes ago, Psychic said:

If this actually becomes a global Thai Immigration policy it is just another addle headed idea from some idle bureaucrat that will have nothing but unfavourable consequences.

 

Like driving out those who can't/won't put 800,000 in a Thai bank and in their old age are sick of dealing with aggravations like whether having a summation of bank deposits and income prove eligibility.

 

If the actual transfers to a bank are going to be "proof" then the calculators at Immigration offices are going to be working overtime.

 

I guess credit cards are foreign to them. Personally, I put about 20K on my Canadian card. That's money put into the Thai system but counts as nothing.

 

This seems, simply, as a way to get foreign currency put in the Thai banking system.

 

If a government issued income tax statement verified by the Canadian government is not proof of income then no such thing exists. 

 

It seems to me to be an attempt not so much as verifying income as attempting to somehow force that income to be spent in Thailand.

 

Having built a house, cooking our own food and not going to bars and having paid the kid's way through university (no credit for the millions paid for the house, car, motorbikes or education) we simply don't need much money to lead a simple, good life.

 

In  "normal" society marriage to a Thai citizen and years of leading a law abiding life would lead to the government making residence easier.

 

Not here. If I suddenly find my annual income reduced to 399,999 baht...out I go. Millions of baht of family assets count for nothing.

 

The worst part is that the scammers will find a way to game the system. They always do.

 

Groups of them pooling cash and moving it around, as some have suggested here for example.

 

Years ago when I was coming here permanently I told my coworkers Thailand was a great place to retire.

 

I don't tell them that anymore.

 

On a recent visit home I spoke to a friend who retired to Cabo, Mexico.

 

5 year visa, no checks every 90 days, access to basic Mexican healthcare, freedom to travel in and out at will and just as inexpensive as here (he lives on a small pension).

 

Personally, if not for my ties (and Thais) here I'd be there tomorrow morning.

 

For me this change, if it comes is not the end of the world.

 

I'll put the 400K in the bank, curtail credit card spending and even move some monthly into the wife's account to show income to make a visa to Canada easier.

 

I won't be spending anymore. In fact, I plan on spending considerably less. I was going to spend several million on a pool, home improvements and a second car.

 

Not anymore since I have lost all faith in the Thai government. They are fully capable of moving the goalposts again. And I might need that money.

 

Meanwhile, I have 3 retiree friends who were already seriously considering packing up and leaving. This may be the push they need.

 

As I've said numerous times I have no problem with Thailand trying to control scammers and people who abuse their immigration policies.

 

But they would be far better served by creating a "trusted immigrant" status for people who have abided by the laws for years and concentrating the majority if their resources to actually chasing down the "bad guys".

 

But, as I've said, I think the primary driver here is financial and wrong headed. A foreigner who spends 50K a month here spends nothing if he leaves.

 

I see more foreigner owned small businesses for sale than I've ever seen before. Friends who own restaurants in Chaam tell me business is worse every year.

 

The last thing they need to do is drive retirees away.

I think there are many folk who will agree with you and who knows what the next negative move to the western retirees will be . Crazy thing is , there are many Thai families who are supported by a farang  retiree who is on a small pension but enough to make provision . The retiree is undervalued by the authorities here , imho .  There are some who say , Thailand is past its sell by date and other countries are becoming interesting to visit with a view of settling there . I do feel for the guys who have committed their finances and all to Thailand and have made a significant contribution , they have nowhere to turn . So as we know if you leave Thailand you leave with nothing ( most of the time ) but the future positives may outweigh the current negatives  .  

[watso63]

Try thinking outside the box folks. It might, maybe could be that the government is fulfilling its main purpose and that is to protect its own citizens first and foremost. Unfortunately western governments have sold out to the globalist elite and ditched this principal in the name of diversity and actually appease the bad guys and terrorists. Its not always about I, me or you.

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

Maybe this is a stupid question but:

In order to get a retirement visa I need to have THB 800,000 in a bank in Thailand for 3 months before I apply for the visa.

In order to get a Thai bank account I need to show proof of residency.  How do I get a Residency Card when I need to have money in the bank for 3 months before getting a Retirement visa to live in the country long-term?  

Seems to be a case of a cat chasing its own tail...

 

And BTW, opening a bank account in ANY foreign country is a major headache - I have a EU passport, live in the USA and wanted to open an account in the UK about 3 years ago.  Such a difficult process that I eventually gave up.  LLoy'ds bank at one time sent me a check for GBP 100 for the inconvenience and hassle.  When I wanted to cash the check at a Lloyd's branch I was told that I could not do that but only deposit it into an account....

 

 

Your initial money in the bank is 60 days, there is a window to open an account and transfer funds etc. Subsequent extensions its 90 days.

You dont usually open an account with a res cert, usually a visa you got at home or a visa you have converted to in thailand.

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

Maybe this is a stupid question but:

In order to get a retirement visa I need to have THB 800,000 in a bank in Thailand for 3 months before I apply for the visa.

In order to get a Thai bank account I need to show proof of residency.  How do I get a Residency Card when I need to have money in the bank for 3 months before getting a Retirement visa to live in the country long-term?  

Seems to be a case of a cat chasing its own tail...

 

And BTW, opening a bank account in ANY foreign country is a major headache - I have a EU passport, live in the USA and wanted to open an account in the UK about 3 years ago.  Such a difficult process that I eventually gave up.  LLoy'ds bank at one time sent me a check for GBP 100 for the inconvenience and hassle.  When I wanted to cash the check at a Lloyd's branch I was told that I could not do that but only deposit it into an account....

 

 

I have opened umpteen bank accounts in LoS, I have never shown any proof of residency.