UK Embassy Letters - The Way Forward.

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

...I fill in the simple, downloaded 'spreadsheet' they provide...

For the information of the readers of this topic, the following is the form currently and apparently only until 12 December 2018 provided by the British embassy to apply for the "embassy letter"

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=19_TNShtC0Gn_uVWvTznEsIWk2gW5yGQS

[Tanoshi]

24 minutes ago, Maestro said:

For the information of the readers of this topic, the following is the form currently and apparently only until 12 December 2018 provided by the British embassy to apply for the "embassy letter"

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=19_TNShtC0Gn_uVWvTznEsIWk2gW5yGQS

Same usual form.

Bank statements provide the name of the depositor and the amount.

Very easy to identify pension providers and fixed monthly, or quarterly incomes.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Tanoshi

[the guest]

To solve this problem, perhaps all foreigners should be treated as equal, and immigration should insist on the funds sitting in a Thai bank account. This will server as a guarantee to the hosting country in the event things go wrong. It solves all misunderstandings, and put the cards directly on the table.

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, richiejom said:

I can't see how they can impose the 'income proof' sitting in a Thai bank because at present BE only require 3 months bank statements...Immigration aren't going to accept only 3 months are they?

Whe wouldn't they accept 3 months? You are proving your income on the date you apply for the extension. The letter you get from the embassy does not state how long you have had the income.

Not much different than having to show 800k baht in the bank for 3 months.

[robertson468]

A few days ago I renewed my Visa at Koh Samui Immigration and took the opportunity to discuss the change in proof of income and said that I understand that if married to a Thai I only needed to prove 40,000 baht income per month in Thailand, or if not married to a Thai, 65,000 baht monthly income.  They said the ONLY proof of income from now on is either 400,000 baht in the Bank for those married to a Thai, or 650,000 baht for those not married to a Thai.  I have asked our, about to be appointed, Hon Consul to take this up as a matter of urgency and issue clarification.  Alternatively, I am thinking of writing to the Foreign Office, who give direction to Embassies, as I believe the implementation of this new rule has been done in a very autocratic way and those residing in Thailand have not been given the chance to prepare for the new requirement.  To say that such a rule is changed within three months is rediculous, but if the BE said for instance it will change in 12 months time, or even a bit longer, at least gives individuals the opportunity to get their finances in order.  They have after all been issuing these letter for many, many years, so what is the big rush now?  Sorry to say, but without being advised by the BE of the background to this, it is a very autocratic way to go about business and does not help the Britis living long term in Thailand.  Very unsatifactory indeed!

[Esso49]

2 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

A few days ago I renewed my Visa at Koh Samui Immigration and took the opportunity to discuss the change in proof of income and said that I understand that if married to a Thai I only needed to prove 40,000 baht income per month in Thailand, or if not married to a Thai, 65,000 baht monthly income.  They said the ONLY proof of income from now on is either 400,000 baht in the Bank for those married to a Thai, or 650,000 baht for those not married to a Thai.  I have asked our, about to be appointed, Hon Consul to take this up as a matter of urgency and issue clarification.  Alternatively, I am thinking of writing to the Foreign Office, who give direction to Embassies, as I believe the implementation of this new rule has been done in a very autocratic way and those residing in Thailand have not been given the chance to prepare for the new requirement.  To say that such a rule is changed within three months is rediculous, but if the BE said for instance it will change in 12 months time, or even a bit longer, at least gives individuals the opportunity to get their finances in order.  They have after all been issuing these letter for many, many years, so what is the big rush now?  Sorry to say, but without being advised by the BE of the background to this, it is a very autocratic way to go about business and does not help the Britis living long term in Thailand.  Very unsatifactory indeed!

Different to what Udon Thani immigration officer advised when I discussed it with them on Friday after getting my latest 1 year extension stamp.

[Thaidream]

12 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Different to what Udon Thani immigration officer advised when I discussed it with them on Friday after getting my latest 1 year extension stamp

What did Udon Thani Imm advise?

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

A few days ago I renewed my Visa at Koh Samui Immigration and took the opportunity to discuss the change in proof of income and said that I understand that if married to a Thai I only needed to prove 40,000 baht income per month in Thailand, or if not married to a Thai, 65,000 baht monthly income.  They said the ONLY proof of income from now on is either 400,000 baht in the Bank for those married to a Thai, or 650,000 baht for those not married to a Thai. 

Considering the source I would consider that false info. Samui immigration has come up with some strange requirements of their own before.

Where did they come up with the 650k baht number?

[Esso49]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

What did Udon Thani Imm advise?

I was the only the second person to raise the issue with them at that time. Prior to Friday they had heard nothing about the issue from their Chiefs.  Now you have to remember that in my experience the IO working here in Udon are some of the most helpful and nicest people I have encountered in any immigration office.

 

Given that they said they would enquire and seek guidance and let me know on my next visit as to what they have been advised. That will be in January for my next 90 day report.

 

However, a personal opinion of the 2nd in charge there was that something must be provisioned for the future, given that the majority of extensions based on marriage in Udon are approved based solely on income, and he would not like to see families potentially disadvantaged because they do not have access to a large amount of money to show in a bank( his words not mine). 

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

iven that they said they would enquire and seek guidance and let me know on my next visit as to what they have been advised. That will be in January for my next 90 day report.

 

However, a personal opinion of the 2nd in charge there was that something must be provisioned for the future, given that the majority of extensions based on marriage in Udon are approved based solely on income, and he would not like to see families potentially disadvantaged because they do not have access to a large amount of money to show in a bank( his words not mine). 

Thank you for sharing that and what the IO said makes perfect sense.  Hopefully, the powers in charge will share the same sentiments.

[cleverman]

I believe that if the embassy stat dec requirement had not been abused, contained false incomes, then this change would not have come about. Karma? Ozzie embassy stat dec still accepted. 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I believe that if the embassy stat dec requirement had not been abused, contained false incomes, then this change would not have come about. Karma? Ozzie embassy stat dec still accepted. 

So is the UK embassy income letter. Immigration still accepts all proof of income documents from embassies. Nothing has changed. 

[cleverman]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

So is the UK embassy income letter. Immigration still accepts all proof of income documents from embassies. Nothing has changed. 

You are always spot on mate. But I have read that BE are to stop issuing the letters and the Oz have not. 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, cleverman said:

But I have read that BE are to stop issuing the letters and the Oz have not. 

That is what the UK embassy has stated but that could change.

[Joe Mcseismic]

So far there has not been a single instance of Thai immigration, or the British embassy bringing up "abuse of the system".

Total conjecture in the minds of some posters. I give it the credence it deserves...........not much.

[Moonlover]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:35 AM, Thaidream said:

Very True- when I was asked I had the letter and so has every other person who was asked for added proof. I was attempting to try and indicate that if they accept letters etc as added proof- they could hopefully be 'convinced' to accept it as primary proof if no BE letter. Whether they will or not remains to be seen

Precisely! To put it in the vernacular, you have 'hit the nail on the head' and is the very reason why I opened this particular thread in the first place.

 

And this why I believe we need to engage with the embassy and persuade them, on our behalf to get the immigration hierarchy to recognize this fact. It not only helps us, it's a 'face saving' solution to both parties.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Moonlover

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, Esso49 said:

not I was the only the second person to raise the issue with them at that time. Prior to Friday they had heard nothing about the issue from their Chiefs.  Now you have to remember that in my experience the IO working here in Udon are some of the most helpful and nicest people I have encountered in any immigration office.

 

Given that they said they would enquire and seek guidance and let me know on my next visit as to what they have been advised. That will be in January for my next 90 day report.

 

However, a personal opinion of the 2nd in charge there was that something must be provisioned for the future, given that the majority of extensions based on marriage in Udon are approved based solely on income, and he would not like to see families potentially disadvantaged because they do not have access to a large amount of money to show in a bank( his words not mine). 

 

Very encouraging news. I shall be making the same enquiry in Sakon Nakhon this coming January. They are equally as helpful as Udon Thani, whom I used for 4 years.

 

Common sense will, I'm sure prevail in the end and it's those last 2 lines of yours that will bring it about. 

 

'and he would not like to see families potentially disadvantaged because they do not have access to a large amount of money to show in a bank' ( his words not mine). 

 

Family is very important in Thai culture and to cause disruption to family life over one largely irrelevant letter just would not go down very well at all.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Moonlover

[Joe Mcseismic]

11 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

Very encouraging news. I shall be making the same enquiry in Sakon Nakhon this coming January. They are equally as helpful as Udon Thani, whom I used for 4 years.

 

Common sense will, I'm sure prevail in the end and it's those last 2 lines of yours that will bring it about. 

 

'and he would not like to see families potentially disadvantaged because they do not have access to a large amount of money to show in a bank' ( his words not mine). 

 

Family is very important in Thai culture and to cause disruption to family life over one largely irrelevant letter just would not go down very well at all.

Oh dear....you really believe "common sense" will prevail?

One immigration officer's comment on family and you cling to it like a drowning man clings to a life-ring in a storm.

How about the flip side of the coin? Thais believe that there are too many foreigners living here. Thai officialdom are well known for their xenophobic attitudes and for blaming foreigners for their own mistakes. They know their audience well.

Just watch Thai authorities dig in if any foreign country tries to suggest how to run their immigration policy.

There's no need to get overly pessimistic about this issue, but neither should you embrace false hope.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[Moonlover]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:52 AM, jesimps said:

There's just one problem I can see with that, and it is that my UK civil service pension P60 letter and my original state pension letter, although signed, are just copies of originals. I don't think I've ever had an original signed letter from my pension provider. If immigration agreed to accept pension letters, would they accept the copies which we get sent, or would we have to go begging our providers for originals? Taking into account the usual lack of enthusiasm from my provider and the inefficiency of the postal service in my area, I don't give much for my chances.

I was asked several years ago to produce them as secondary proof to the letter and they were accepted.

I am somewhat surprised to read this. Why do you think that your pension providers only send copies? They are, undoubtedly, churned out by the thousands by computer, but I'm sure they will be the originals.

 

In common with many others here I'm sure, the only provider that does not send out an annual letter is DWP, however the IPC will provide you with a letter of confirmation on request.

 

My last one took 3 months, so allow plenty of time.

 

[Thaidream]

51 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

nd this why I believe we need to engage with the embassy and persuade them, on our behalf to get the immigration hierarchy to recognize this fact. It not only helps us, it's a 'face saving' solution to both parties.

Absolutely correct- IMHO BE made a very bad mistake as there was not any indication Thai Imm stated they would not accept the letters.  Instead of working with Thai Imm or asking British Citizens who would be affected for input and a solution- BE shut the door and said in effect we will not support Thai Imm or our own citizens.  There are ways to solve this issue and they have already been spoken about on this board.  It should also be noted no other Embassy is stopping the letters  and in fact the Australians have made a statement on their web site indicating their system of Statutory Declarations will continue.

 

The best thing BE could do right now is to suspend their decision- and make a statement to Thai Imm and British citizens that the matter is under review and discussion but the letters will continue for the time being Why the rush- no one at Thai Imm has given any indication they won't accept the Letter or any time limit.  Thais do not like confrontation/

[cleverman]

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

So far there has not been a single instance of Thai immigration, or the British embassy bringing up "abuse of the system".

Total conjecture in the minds of some posters. I give it the credence it deserves...........not much.

Read the notification from the BE. Clearly states they are no longer issuing the letter as they cannot confirm it is the truth. When I speak, you can take it as gospel. 

[cleverman]

3 minutes ago, richiejom said:

All the more reason for people to sign the petition ????  at 189 now we got to break 200 come on guys!! https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120

Does your petition ask your embassy to take your word for it being a truthful account of your income? From what I read in their notice ,that is the reason they are no longer going to issue the income letter. Therefore, the petition must address that issue, nothing else is relevant, lack of cash in the bank , not enough income do not come into the equation. 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, cleverman said:

I believe that if the embassy stat dec requirement had not been abused, contained false incomes, then this change would not have come about. Karma? Ozzie embassy stat dec still accepted. 

The BE does not do a 'stat dec'. Never has.

 

The BE issues a proof of income (POI) letter based on financial documents provided by the applicant.

 

The BE's POI letter is not a 'stat dec'.

 

When it comes to legal compliance, the BE's POI letter is completely different from a 'stat dec.'

 

AFAIK, there's no suggestion that BE POI letters being issued based on fraudulent data is the reason for this change of policy. That is something that (mostly) non-UK members have posited as a reason for the change.

 

IMHO there are far cheaper, convenient and more efficient methods for people of ANY nationality to fudge on the veracity of their income that don't entail making an appointment to front up at the embassy and pay money for a fraudulent document. A 'stat dec' is only one of them.

 

'Karma' my ar5e.

Edited October 22, 2018 by NanLaew

[cleverman]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The BE does not do a 'stat dec'. Never has.

 

The BE issues a proof of income (POI) letter based on financial documents provided by the applicant.

 

The BE's POI letter is not a 'stat dec'.

 

When it comes to legal compliance, the BE's POI letter is completely different from a 'stat dec.'

 

AFAIK, there's no suggestion that BE POI letters being issued based on fraudulent data is the reason for this change of policy. That is something that (mostly) non-UK members have posited as a reason for the change.

 

IMHO there are far cheaper, convenient and more efficient methods for people of ANY nationality to fudge on the veracity of their income that don't entail making an appointment to front up at the embassy and pay money for a fraudulent document. A 'stat dec' is only one of them.

 

'Karma' my ar5e.

Read their notice. 

[cleverman]

There is no "more convient way" for Ozzies, stat dec is the only way. Please, check your facts and stop misleading people. 

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Read their notice. 

Oh.. I simply LOVE a good game.

 

Who's notice would that be? The BE? Thai Immigration? The Aussie Embassy?

[cleverman]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Oh.. I simply LOVE a good game.

 

Who's notice would that be? The BE? Thai Immigration? The Aussie Embassy?

Have a guess, which embassy has refused to issue letters about income?

[OJAS]

20 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Read their notice. 

In view of the BS nonsense which the Embassy have uttered since making their despicable decision (such as falsly suggesting in the radio interview linked below that it would, in future, be possible for Brits to prove 65k or 40k income by simply making deposits into a Thai bank account without the need for Embassy verification), it would, I think, be strongly advisable to take their stated reasons for the change with an extremely large pinch of salt.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by OJAS

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, cleverman said:

There is no "more convient way" for Ozzies, stat dec is the only way. Please, check your facts and stop misleading people. 

Yes. That is correct. And the only way the Brits can do the same fiscal proof is the POI letter. The Brits have to furnish actual documents.

 

Now, are you willing to say that 100% of your fellow countrymen who do not have to furnish any actual documents to prove their income are unequivocally in total compliance with Australian law when they get their 'stat dec'?

 

There are fraudsters of ALL nationalities, some frauds are sophisticated and others laughably simple. Your contention that the BE's POI is getting ditched because the Brits maybe lie more than the others isn't based on anything factual.

[cleverman]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Yes. That is correct. And the only way the Brits can do the same fiscal proof is the POI letter. The Brits have to furnish actual documents.

 

Now, are you willing to say that 100% of your fellow countrymen who do not have to furnish any actual documents to prove their income are unequivocally in total compliance with Australian law when they get their 'stat dec'?

 

There are fraudsters of ALL nationalities, some frauds are sophisticated and others laughably simple. Your contention that the BE's POI is getting ditched because the Brits maybe lie more than the others isn't based on anything factual.

"100 percent", "your contention that", . You are getting me confused with someone else. What you say is foreign to me.