Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, flexomike said:

You can still get the letter until the end of the year

 

Which begs the question, how long will each Immigration office accept this documentation? Through January 2019, through March 31, 2019, through June 30, 2019?

 

 

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

People on retirement extensions are assumed to be living in Thailand and thus can reasonably be expected to have the necessary funds for their living costs in a Thai bank account.

 

Understood, but then how does just keeping a lump sum of 800,000 in an account year-in, year-out show as having necessary funds? Do you have to spend this fully over -15 to -3 months, then replenish it?

 

It seems like many people just keep 800,000 parked for years, and then live off other funds, which may be more, or less than, 65,000 per month.

 

My plan is to park 800,000, but am worried that Immigration will want to see that account used for living expenses.

 

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

The British Embassy made a pigs ear of presenting this to the public but are nonetheless vindicated by this announcement.

... or to blame for causing the change in immigration policy announcement to take place sooner than it otherwise might and ,so far, nothing (sort of) definite regarding future guidelines except from a few random immigrations officers.

[unamazedloso]

This doesnt effect me yet but its clear the older with more money to be left around is more important. If this happens to me i will move my thai family away so preparing in advance to sell land to other family and put things in kids names and sit around and wait to move out. No more money. No value!

[Thaiwrath]

8 minutes ago, garyk said:

125,000 total U.S. + U.K expats x 800,000 = 100 billion baht?

Just speculation on my part but I would bet 95-98% used the letter. It was required, and anyone that actually put 800K in a Thai bank just for that purpose would be ignorant IMO.

LOL.

You think I'm ignorant !

I am not fannying round, looking for ways to get my next visa. ????????

[Longcut]

FAQS: CESSATION OF INCOME AFFIDAVITS
Is it true the Embassy will no longer complete income affidavits for U.S. citizens?
 Yes. Beginning January 1, 2019, the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai will no longer provide the income affidavit form and will not notarize previous versions of the form. 
Why is the U.S. Embassy making this decision? 
 The Royal Thai Government requires foreigners to meet a minimum income threshold to obtain nonimmigrant “O,” “O-A,” or 
“O-X” long-term stay visas. The self-sworn affidavits notarized at the Embassy and Consulate General do not meet the Thai 
requirement to certify the income of U.S. citizens. In addition, U.S. Citizens have often expressed concern at the expense and 
burden of travel necessary to obtain the income affidavit at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate. 
I want to renew my visa in 2019. How can I verify my income for the application?
 Thailand provides information about visa application and extension requirements on the Royal Thai Embassy in Washington, 
D.C., and the Thai Immigration Bureau websites. These include minimum savings and income amounts and types of evidence 
required.
 As of October 26, 2018, U.S. citizens can verify they meet the income requirements directly with Royal Thai Immigration by 
providing a local bank statement indicating a minimum deposit of 800,000 Thai Baht or a local bank statement showing a 
monthly deposit of at least 65,000 Thai Baht. Applicants should refer to the above-referenced websites for specifics regarding 
the timing and conditions associated with these deposits.
 We will continue to notarize income affidavit forms through the end of 2018. Thai Immigration Bureau officials confirmed to us
that they will support early visa renewals for U.S. citizens during the transition period. The income affidavits are currently valid 
for six months. 
I receive U.S. Government benefits. Can the U.S. Embassy or Consulate General verify this income?
 We cannot verify or guarantee income, regardless of source.
 The U.S. Mission in Thailand has been working with the Social Security Administration (SSA) regarding deposits directly into 
Thai banks. The SSA recently notified us that it has approved Thailand to participate in the International Direct Deposit (IDD) 
program. This will make proof of income easier. IDD will be implemented beginning in the first quarter of 2019. More information about IDD can be found at: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf
What will happen to those who cannot demonstrate sufficient income?
 Sufficient finances are an eligibility requirement of the Royal Thai Government for the issuance of a long-stay retirement or 
family-based visa. Individuals who do not meet the income and financial thresholds do not qualify for these visas in Thailand. 
U.S. citizens should thoroughly understand the Royal Thai Government’s visa requirements to ensure eligibility. We cannot 
intervene on U.S. citizens’ behalf. 
What are the U.S. Embassy and Consulate doing to ease the transition?
 We recently met with the new Commissioner of Immigration and his staff to discuss the change, and both the Embassy and 
Consulate General will work closely with regional immigration offices during the transition period to address any concerns. 
U.S. EMBASSY BANGKOK
95 Wireless Rd., Bangkok 10330 THAILAND 
Find us on or +66 (2) 205-4049

[garyk]

3 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

LOL.

You think I'm ignorant !

I am not fannying round, looking for ways to get my next visa. ????????

 

3 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

LOL.

You think I'm ignorant !

I am not fannying round, looking for ways to get my next visa. ????????

What???  LOL

Don't get your self to worked up there Thaiwrath.

Sounds like you are a real smart cookie... ???? 

Edited October 26, 2018 by garyk

[connda]

Surprise, surprise. 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

According to various quotes from immigration sources, yes - but none of this is confirmed/announced, yet

More or less announced on the actual Embassy web site- under ACS Notarials- they indicate thai Imm will accept the letter for 6 months 

[Aforek]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Bad news for US nationals.

 

I have said it before just swearing to something leaves too many loopholes open its illegal to swear to things that are not the truth but the chances of being caught were almost non existent. 

 

Seems all sides have finally seen the same problems and fixed it in the most convenient way for them and not for the best way for their clients. Seems putting money in a Thai account is the way to go.

I expect that other European countries will follow … I have already my 800000 bathts in bank for 2 years already 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Because METVs are supposed to be used for tourism purposes only by people still living in their home country. Obviously they would not open Thai bank accounts.

People on retirement extensions are assumed to be living in Thailand and thus can reasonably be expected to have the necessary funds for their living costs in a Thai bank account.


Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Not exactly. Under the current income method for retirement extensions you aren't even required to have a Thai bank account at all! I'm not saying that's right or wrong. Just how it is (now).

[connda]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The Royal Thai Government requires actual verification of income to certify visa applicants meet financial requirements for long-stay visas. 

...however, in a perfect Catch-22 scenario, The Royal Thai Government will refuse to accept any "verification of income to certify visa applicants meet financial requirements for long-stay visas." unless it is notarized by a citizen's home embassy. 

 

Joseph Heller is no doubt laughing in his grave. 

[Guest]

Effective January 1, 2019, the United States Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai will no longer provide an income affidavit and will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit. The Royal Thai Government requires applicants to meet a 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Guest
Wrong Information / Clarification

[Jeffrey346]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Get a income affidavit now and apply in December. The affidavit is good for 6 months. 

In the Brit Post.. They said Income Statements issued prior to Jan 1, 2019 will be honored for 6 months.

Probably safer to apply in Dec but Jan should be OK as well. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Jeffrey346

[garyk]

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

not as ignorant as living check to check.  The GBP dropped twenty percent in a day in 2016....2% On a 12 month fixed deposit, and no consulate letter is not bad.  This has been in the works for years...people abused it more than ED Visas......send the losers home.

I am so surprised at the people that seem to think just because you used the letter you don't have any funds????

And living pay check to pay check? 

Not much faith in retirees.

Personally I think most all will get or have the funds if they want to stay.

Huge payday for Thailand for sure.

[spidermike007]

I was waiting for this to happen. I assumed sooner of later this door would close. It was just too easy, for too many. No verification? Nothing? Just a statement of fact?

 

I think immigration is determined to weed out the guys who are just getting by. It seems, since they have lost the golden egg of affluent tourists, years ago, due to a countless number of mistakes on the part of the authorities, they are now trying to make up for it, with more affluent ex-pats.

[Thaidream]

According to what I have read - since the  Embassy letter will still be good for 6 months and a person can apply for extension of stay up to 30-45 days early then extensions due into July will be covered and possibly early August- if the letter is obtained in December.  Ubon Joe- is this correct?

[Genericnic]

Lovely.  My retirement extension is up for renewal mid-January, so it's now too late to have the B800,000 on deposit in a Thai bank for 90 days.  What the heck am I supposed to do?

Just do it now. The letter is good for 6 months so you should be covered in January.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

Perhaps the Brits and Yanks should consider applying for Australian citizenship. Why not, you would be more welcome than some other immigrants.

The Australian system is different. It's a Statutory Declaration, and there are criminal penalties including jail for anyone making a false declaration. I don't know if Thai Immigration is taking account of this difference. Wait and see.

[garyk]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I was waiting for this to happen. I assumed sooner of later this door would close. It was just too easy, for too many. No verification? Nothing? Just a statement of fact?

 

I think immigration is determined to weed out the guys who are just getting by. It seems, since they have lost the golden egg of affluent tourists, years ago, due to a countless number of mistakes on the part of the authorities, they are now trying to make up for it, with more affluent ex-pats.

I think it is strictly a way to put money in the system period. Their are not that many expats from the U.S. living here.

[HHTel]

21 minutes ago, garyk said:

125,000 total U.S. + U.K expats x 800,000 = 100 billion baht?

Just speculation on my part but I would bet 95-98% used the letter. It was required, and anyone that actually put 800K in a Thai bank just for that purpose would be ignorant IMO.

The best part of 100,000 brit expats here.  According to the BE only 3,000 used the income letter.

A large lump of those expats are not retired or married and work for a living negating any financial requirements.

100 billion baht in new money is a big stretch of the imagination.

[ianf]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Brits and now the yanks, probably 65% or so ,just a guess, of all the expats in Thailand, should be a lot of clout or a pending exodus.

Exodus? How? My house and my family and all my possessions are here. Perhaps I could go back to the UK and sleep under a bridge. This is a nightmare.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

how will they know your Social Security statement is correct? you should ask the embassy if they will do any legwork along those lines. 

let us know what they say.

Pretty sure they are prohibited from doing anything that suggests they have proved the contents of a document to be accurate.

 

That's why they note for affidavits:

 

Quote

Please note that the Embassy and Consulate assume no responsibility for the truth or falsity of the representations that appear in the affidavit. Only the identity of the individual making the statement is validated.

 

[Genericnic]

some maybe don't have the money

Or don't trust the Thai banks enough to make the deposit.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, quandow said:

Just got my notice, too. I think big picture, Thailand wants a lot more capital inside its borders. As well, MANY retirees will eventually die and not make the proper plans to have their money repatriated. It's a scummy move and will have a LOT of us planning to seek life elsewhere.

Or it could be that immigration want to see the truth before issuing extensions of stay.

 

What will be interesting is what the immigration accept as proof for those wanting to continue the income method. Will they now accept a letter from the bank for transfer history? Or do they already have a template for the banks to fill in?

 

I have a funny (sic) feeling that all embassies are going to follow this new trend eventually as none of them can provide proof of income (neither time, manpower or authority to do this) for any of their citizens.

 

IMO, Big Joke isn't so funny now.........................

[david555]

1 minute ago, Genericnic said:

Or don't trust the Thai banks enough to make the deposit.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

In 10 years times my deposits have being accurate …., depends much about your own security 

[Kerryd]

I'm actually surprised that they even let people use the "Income" letters in the first place.

 

After all, I have to keep my "800k" in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to my Extension and Thailand expects that is the money I will need to live on for the next year.

Meanwhile, people using Income letters don't have to show any money actually coming in to Thailand at all. For all they (Immigration) knows, all that pension money (if it even exists in the first place) is going to a bank in (whatever foreign country) and the people claiming to have that income are actually trying to get by on 50 baht a day. Or less.

 

And for every person on here that claims they are "uber rich" and spending far in excess of "65,000" per month, there are probably a dozen that get a tenth of that amount, or nothing at all (but still get an Income letter every year that claims otherwise).

Maybe that is why Thailand now wants to see a (Thai) bank book showing regular deposits of 65,000/month. To prove all you "uber rich" people actually have the amounts you've been claiming to for so many years.

 

Want to bet that most of them do not get anywhere near as much as they claim ?

[garyk]

8 minutes ago, HHTel said:

The best part of 100,000 brit expats here.  According to the BE only 3,000 used the income letter.

A large lump of those expats are not retired or married and work for a living negating any financial requirements.

100 billion baht in new money is a big stretch of the imagination.

The Thai banks will be guaranteed to have the extra money. As of today Americans and Brits can and do and use the letter route. I don't know for sure but, I think I will look into it and see if I can find a figure. But, I bet before this is over 100 Billion baht would not be out of the question.

Also I bet other embassy's will follow. 

Time will tell.

No matter what anyone says it is always about the money!

Edited October 26, 2018 by garyk

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

There is no foolproof system but its less susceptible to fraud then the old ways. 

And as has been true for most immigrations "crackdowns,"  because a relatively small number of foreigners abuse the system, everyone  ends up dealing with more onerous hurdles to leap over.

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, garyk said:

I think it is strictly a way to put money in the system period. Their are not that many expats from the U.S. living here.

How many?

[pgrahmm]

21 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Actually, it's a one time deposit that you can enjoy until you'll leave this planet. Can't really see the problems that US people have with this.

Well I, for one, don't want to put aside $$$$ that have been making a good return on investment - last year that 24k ended up at 27.6k just sitting there.....

You're dead ended once you are forced to move & park that money in a Thai account....Moving it there is easy, moving it back & forth from a Thai bank across international boundaries to allow for earnings is not easy, or a good plan....

I've used the income affidavit & can verify every amount off my US bank statements as well as the monthly Thai withdrawls noted & itemized on the same bank statements in increments between 40-75k withdrawn at the Thai bank branch a couple of times each month......

Dead ending that money is, not what I feel, a good option.....