Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, Phil90 said:

It's a super scummy move because as a previous poster stated, a lot of elderly people won't make the proper arrangements to ensure that the money is returned to their heirs when they die.  It's also way more money than anybody actually needs to live very comfortably in Thailand.  The average annual Thai household income is only a little over $3,000.  Why should an single retired person need 7 times more income just to prove they can "support themselves" than an average "Thai household".  Of course it's a scummy scam like many things in Thailand. Even if you expect a much higher standard of living you can easily get by comfortably, even as a couple on 1/2 - 2/3 of that income requirement.

I believe the high amount is to keep people out who refer to Thailand as scummy scams as opposed to a wonderful cultural experience. 

[jeffandgop]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

SS transfers my money in the correct format.  Seems easier to call Bangkok Bank and ask for the correct department in NYC or get the information here than change banks.  There are long threads about on Thai Visa.

I already had that credit union account. And even if I did not, I’d gladly sign up with a no foreign transaction or other fees financial institution to not only avoid paying the Bangkok Bank ACH fees but further gain financially with better foreign exchange rates that I also now enjoy. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by jeffandgop

[Pib]

9 minutes ago, watgate said:

  

  2 hours ago, HHTel said:

One option to avoid holding a lump sum in Thai baht is to keep in a Foreign Currency account.  That way your cash will be in US dollars or GBP which you can draw from when the exchange rate is favourable

 

     A previous poster said that if you deposit funds in a thai bank they will not be protected by Thailand's version of FDIC insurance for bank deposits, If true then depositing funds in another currency in a thai bank would be very risky.

 

Below are is a chart of Thailand Deposit Protection Agency (DPA) coverage amounts....the DPA is like the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) that provide coverage for U.S. bank accounts.

 

Additionally Foreign Currency Deposits are "not" covered; only Thai baht accounts. 

 

The part about using a FCD to exchange funds when exchange rates are favorable is true but can imply rates routinely go up which they don't....in fact on a long term basis for currencies such as USD and GBP the trend has been slowly down. 

 

Plus with money transfer services such as Transferwise where you lock in the exchange rate when initiating the transfer and then the money arrives in a day or two plus you money is probably a better way to go if a person is concerned about day-to-day changes in exchange rates. 

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/main.php?filename=index___EN

 

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/download/pdf/DPA-FAQ-EN0716.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

[sfokevin]

55 minutes ago, watgate said:

Since I have never put 800k in a thai bank I was wondering what exactly one has to do with complying with the FACTA/FBAR reporting when doing one's income taxes at year end? Since I go back to the US for a couple of months each year do I need to get something from the bank where my 800k will be on deposit in order to be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement? I don't want to go back to the US and not be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement since I don't have the necessary info or documentation to complete it.

it is a simple online process...   

 

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/NoRegFBARFiler.html

[watso63]

So refreshing to see a nation's Immigration Bureau doing things properly in the interests of its own citizen's. When they prosecute corrupt agencies and IO's then that will convince me they are deadly serious. What's the big deal having the finances in the bank for the 2/3 months prior to application? Been doing it for the past 6 years, no problem. If it's a problem then these people shouldn't be here. It really isn't Thailand's concern. For those that have been supporting families by breaking the law then it looks like they will have to stump up the cash or go and find work.

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, watgate said:

Since I have never put 800k in a thai bank I was wondering what exactly one has to do with complying with the FACTA/FBAR reporting when doing one's income taxes at year end? Since I go back to the US for a couple of months each year do I need to get something from the bank where my 800k will be on deposit in order to be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement? I don't want to go back to the US and not be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement since I don't have the necessary info or documentation to complete it.

has nothing to do with income taxes, it is a completely seperate form which you can do on the internet, very easy, if you have more than $10,000 dollars combined in accounts outside of the US you are required to file one each year

[kensisaket]

17 hours ago, NanLaew said:

What lost business? Here's how many of us were here in 2010. With all the economic crashes and recoveries, I seriously doubt there's been any notable surges of the well-heeled from anywhere 'way over there' except maybe more Burmese.

 

 

2 million of those are people here working minimum wage (or less) jobs. They are not bringing money into the country. 

[JLCrab]

Well I know a few Yanks have commented this topic about the O-A visa -- I have been checking and it seems to me between the Certified criminal background check, the medical including a TB check and then dealing with the Thai Embassy in WashDC (as a Florida resident) plus arranging for the 800K in the bank one would almost have to plan on spending 6-8 weeks in the USA to get it all done with ample cushion time. Not easy for me as I have no place to stay long-term and that's a lot of hotel nites.

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, kensisaket said:

2 million of those are people here working minimum wage (or less) jobs. They are not bringing money into the country. 

They are taking money out of the country and sending it back home as opposed to tourists and Western expats who are bringing in foreign exchange. 

[robblok]

13 hours ago, JimGant said:

Yes, Great Britain, former colonialists, at least those who were rebels and criminals, are afforded higher trust by their governments than is afforded your citizens. Shame an oath means so little today in jolly old Britain. Shame, too, it now means so little in Thailand too.... Sigh.

You assume people are honest.. I assume they are not, just swearing to something without checks is just inviting people to abuse it.

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

I only spend around 6 months of the year here and don't want to be sending 40k each month as when I am not here I need that pension income elsewhere. Is this the end? I'm thinking may be getting a tourist 60 day visa out of country plus 30 day in country extension in future, but that only gives me a max of 90 days here. Ideas anyone?

Yes.  Assuming you start with a Single-Entry Tourist Visa from your home-country consulate: After the 30-day extension of your 60-day Tourist-Visa entry expires, go to Vientiane, Laos, and get another Tourist Visa.  Return By Land (friendship bridge) - not an airport (where you could be unfairly mistreated at the immigration-checkpoint), and then fly to your destination domestic from Udon Thanni. 

[IAMHERE]

17 hours ago, moontang said:

FBAR is about as simple as it gets.

Funny, I am too. ????

[gaviny]

2 million of those are people here working minimum wage (or less) jobs. They are not bringing money into the country. 

True that but I think they are valuable to the Thai's economy by doing the jobs even the Thais are reluctant to do.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[blankagain]

This is as serious as it gets. The real sufferers here will be the Thai's that have husbands and children along with staff employed in retail, hotels on and on it goes. It's a sad situation all around.

 

It's not like the Thai families can lobby the government to set up social security for those affected by the rule changing on a whim. They need to be vocal.

 

Even if they could afford to take their family home it's an expensive deal with no guarantee of acceptance in their home country.

 

As for the 800.000 in the bank, I'd be seriously nervous about the roadmaps in the up and coming elections. That in itself is another huge issue. You'd need to keep a few $$ under the mattress.

 

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Well I know a few Yanks have commented this topic about the O-A visa -- I have been checking and it seems to me between the Certified criminal background check, the medical including a TB check and then dealing with the Thai Embassy in WashDC (as a Florida resident) plus arranging for the 800K in the bank one would almost have to plan on spending 6-8 weeks in the USA to get it all done with ample cushion time. Not easy for me as I have no place to stay long-term and that's a lot of hotel nites.

Yea, it's not a hard process, but it's not a speedy process either based on my experience around 10 years ago in getting my O-A Visa in the States before moving to Thailand.  Takes time and money to get the necessary police and medical clearances, the mailing times, the $200 fee for a new O-A visa, etc.  

http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-category-oa/

 

But getting the annual extension of stay within Thailand is easy, fast, cheap, etc.., assuming you can meet the income requirement like Bt800K in the bank, monthly income, etc.  Yea, the extension of stay process within Thailand is easy if a person meets the income requirement. 

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

If you have the required Bt 800,000 in your currency in a  US bank or a bit more you can apply and receive a Multi entry "O" retirement visa in your own country and not have any money in any bank account in Thailand ( as I do).  A few hoops to go through costs Aus $275 = UD$ or whatever currency.  You need a bit of paper work,  A police report, a medical certificate it takes about 10 days.  It's the same in in most western countries.  That's how I get my Retirement Visa.  The Thai web site shows you how to go about it and is very good.  In Aus you do it through the Thai Embassy.  When you get to Thailand you just waltz through with everything in order.  The visa you get is multi entry only for the 1st year.  If you leave and return before the 1st year expires and you can do that as many times as you want you will get an extension to stay for another year each time you enter.  So Multi entry "O" is good for one day short of 2 years from you 1st arrival.  If you leave after the 1st year the visa will lapse you cannot get an extension on top of an extension (TIT).  The extension bit is not available after the 1 st year.  You must get the extension before the 1st year concludes.  One day is enough.  If you visa is dated till a certain date it will lapse the day before.  TIT 

Isn't it true that to extend for 1 more year, money needs to be in Thai bank. If that's the case one could simply return to US yearly, get another 1 yr NON OA visa showing money in US bank instead of extending in Thailand.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, blankagain said:

s for the 800.000 in the bank, I'd be seriously nervous about the roadmaps in the up and coming elections. That in itself is another huge issue. You'd need to keep a few $$ under the mattress.

Agree and as a long term resident in Thailand- this is especially the time I will not place 800K in a Thai Bank account-the coming election  and the results have the potential for an unhappy ending (no pun intended)

[Rimmer]

A post outling an illegal activity/off topic conspiricy rant removed

[Peterw42]

37 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

link. 

 

I read the story on Thaivisa about Canadians being the number 1 group of expats in Thailand but I can't find it.  Anyone know where it is?

Canada has never been high on the list of expat numbers. There isnt much expat data around but none will show Canada at the top of the list. Amongst western expats its always UK or US with the largest numbers of western expats.

 

Maybe you are getting confused by search results in google like below, "The largest expat community" is a reference to the internations website, not numbers of Canadians.

 

 

As you can see, the same pops up if I google Australians

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Peterw42

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

Below are is a chart of Thailand Deposit Protection Agency (DPA) coverage amounts....the DPA is like the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) that provide coverage for U.S. bank accounts.

 

Additionally Foreign Currency Deposits are "not" covered; only Thai baht accounts. 

 

The part about using a FCD to exchange funds when exchange rates are favorable is true but can imply rates routinely go up which they don't....in fact on a long term basis for currencies such as USD and GBP the trend has been slowly down. 

 

Plus with money transfer services such as Transferwise where you lock in the exchange rate when initiating the transfer and then the money arrives in a day or two plus you money is probably a better way to go if a person is concerned about day-to-day changes in exchange rates. 

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/main.php?filename=index___EN

 

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/download/pdf/DPA-FAQ-EN0716.pdf

 

I honestly didn't know that but it doesn't worry me unduly.

I find the convenience of a Foreign Currency Account suits me.  If the pound has an unusual spike, I can transfer largish sums into my Thai baht account.  I can use my ATM card at any time and get the current exchange rate.

One of the problems with transferring from abroad was not only the transfer fee but the delay.  Although, having said that, recently, my UK bank seems to be doing transfers the same working day which is an improvement.

[namatjira]

They say there is a silver lining in every cloud, and let’s not all dwell on the cloud...on a positive note, the queue problem at Chiangmai immigration will be significantly smaller in the coming months...

so it’s not all bad

[marcusarelus]

25 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Canada has never been high on the list of expat numbers. There isnt much expat data around but none will show Canada at the top of the list. Amongst western expats its always UK or US with the largest numbers of western expats.

 

Maybe you are getting confused by search results in google like below, "The largest expat community" is a reference to the internations website, not numbers of Canadians.

 

 

As you can see, the same pops up if I google Australians

 

The bureau announced on its website on Monday that there were 1.6 million foreigners living in Thailand between January and August.

 

Canadians were the biggest group – 9,872 migrants – followed by 9,583 Dutch people, 9,566 Bangladeshis and 9,483 Italians.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061128-no-visa-lapsed-visa-means-deportation-within-a-month-prawit/?tab=comments#comment-13438710

 

 

 

[watso63]

22 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Which begs the question, how long will each Immigration office accept this documentation? Through January 2019, through March 31, 2019, through June 30, 2019?

 

 

 

Understood, but then how does just keeping a lump sum of 800,000 in an account year-in, year-out show as having necessary funds? Do you have to spend this fully over -15 to -3 months, then replenish it?

 

It seems like many people just keep 800,000 parked for years, and then live off other funds, which may be more, or less than, 65,000 per month.

 

My plan is to park 800,000, but am worried that Immigration will want to see that account used for living expenses.

 

An immigration officer will want to see regular funds deposited from outside Thailand to show a couple of things but the main one being that you aren't living off illegal earnings in Thailand. Of course you could be on a marriage extension living off a Thai spousal income or if you are working illegally have a separate bank account that you could keep private. I guess no system is fool proof.

[vcpeters]

So what is the solution? I see this as a good decision. Last time I got my retirement Visa Korat Immigration wanted to see my proof of income so why go to US just to pay money for them to certify a document they never even look at? I could tell the USA anything. Thailand wants to see proof of income. According to following instruction, I don't see any requirement by Thais to show certification document from US Embassy - they want to see an original certificate of my social security and pension yearly income :

 

Required Documents: (Required 2 sets; 1 original and 1 copy)

1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must be valid for at least 18 months    and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).
2. Visa application form completely filled out (black and blue ink only) (Download)
3. Addition Application form (Download)
4. Medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14(B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (Download)
5. Two photo’s passport-size photographs (2″x2″) (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.
6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required
7.  Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorizer’s signature is unacceptable )

 

If I'm missing something please advise but please let's concentrate on a viable solution.

 

 

[Esso49]

5 minutes ago, vcpeters said:

So what is the solution? I see this as a good decision. Last time I got my retirement Visa Korat Immigration wanted to see my proof of income so why go to US just to pay money for them to certify a document they never even look at? I could tell the USA anything. Thailand wants to see proof of income. According to following instruction, I don't see any requirement by Thais to show certification document from US Embassy - they want to see an original certificate of my social security and pension yearly income :

 

Required Documents: (Required 2 sets; 1 original and 1 copy)

1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must be valid for at least 18 months    and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).
2. Visa application form completely filled out (black and blue ink only) (Download)
3. Addition Application form (Download)
4. Medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14(B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (Download)
5. Two photo’s passport-size photographs (2″x2″) (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.
6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required
7.  Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorizer’s signature is unacceptable )

 

If I'm missing something please advise but please let's concentrate on a viable solution.

 

 

"an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht"

 

That is what it states is required. Couple of Bank statements and/or pension docuts is not considered to be an income statement.    Now if the Police Regulations relating to this immigration requirement is amended to something else then OK, but at the moment they will ask for this income certificate.

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, vcpeters said:

So what is the solution? I see this as a good decision. Last time I got my retirement Visa Korat Immigration wanted to see my proof of income so why go to US just to pay money for them to certify a document they never even look at? I could tell the USA anything. Thailand wants to see proof of income. According to following instruction, I don't see any requirement by Thais to show certification document from US Embassy - they want to see an original certificate of my social security and pension yearly income :

 

Required Documents: (Required 2 sets; 1 original and 1 copy)

1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must be valid for at least 18 months    and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).
2. Visa application form completely filled out (black and blue ink only) (Download)
3. Addition Application form (Download)
4. Medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14(B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (Download)
5. Two photo’s passport-size photographs (2″x2″) (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.
6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required
7.  Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorizer’s signature is unacceptable )

 

If I'm missing something please advise but please let's concentrate on a viable solution.

 

 

Yes. You are TOTALLY missing something.

By income certificate they mean an EMBASSY LETTER.

 

 

Next … 

[HHTel]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The bureau announced on its website on Monday that there were 1.6 million foreigners living in Thailand between January and August.

 

Canadians were the biggest group – 9,872 migrants – followed by 9,583 Dutch people, 9,566 Bangladeshis and 9,483 Italians.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061128-no-visa-lapsed-visa-means-deportation-within-a-month-prawit/?tab=comments#comment-13438710

 

 

 

I think we all know that is complete BS.  What would you expect coming from the mouth of a government official.

 

This from the Canadian Government:

 

Quote

It is estimated that 6,000 Canadians live in Thailand and around 17,534 Thai citizens visited Canada in 2017.

 

Brits are currently estimated at around 100,000 and up to 300,000 depending which report you read.  But still the biggest group by far with the US coming second with around half that of the Brits.

The Canadians don't even measure, which is not a bad thing if you're Canadian.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, kensisaket said:

2 million of those are people here working minimum wage (or less) jobs. They are not bringing money into the country. 

Correct, they are sending it out - similar to the massive national wealth-drain due to this practice of foreign-nationals in my passport-country.  Yet, in both instances (USA and Thailand), legal-visas are offered to help destroy the country's economy.  Meanwhile, many arriving legally, to spend foreign-capital into the economy, are treated poorly (also, in both cases). 

 

Let's hope Thailand figures this out, and realizes what they are throwing away by making it more difficult for self-funded foreigners to live/retire here.

 

54 minutes ago, gaviny said:

True that but I think they are valuable to the Thai's economy by doing the jobs even the Thais are reluctant to do.

This old-saw needs to be retired - it is a PR talking-point put out by big-business, to justify paying poverty-wages and firing citizens from their former careers to replace them with cheap foreign-laborers.  People reject jobs that pay bare-subsistence at a poverty standard of living.  Pay a decent wage, and if there are poorer people existing in a nation, they will take the job in a heartbeat.  

 

51 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

53 minutes ago, Phil90 said:

LOL. Meanwhile... in far superior countries (and richer and more economically successful countries) no such bs exists. 

On the contrary it is far more difficult to retire to a Western country that's why there are so many Western people retired in Thailand.

I think the "richer and more economically successful" retirement destinations refers to developing-countries that welcome foreigners with foreign-capital to spend into their economies, vs those that shun 90% of this available "free foreign money" with counter-productive immigration-policies which "Keep out too many foreigners, who aren't Rich enough," (unless willing pay tribute to us via agents or special visa-schemes).

Edited October 27, 2018 by JackThompson

[JLCrab]

49 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

If that's the case one could simply return to US yearly, get another 1 yr NON OA visa showing money in US bank instead of extending in Thailand.

Spending around 6 weeks in the USA for no other reason than to get a visa even if every 2 years is not 'simply' even if I'm going to the USA anyway. My USA trips are 2-3 weeks and 6 weeks is way-y-y to long.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I just confirmed with my US bank that a single transfer to my Thai Bank would cost $45.  So the 65,000 Baht per month transfer scheme would cost me $540 per year.  Therefore, if my Dec Extension is not approved then as they say adios.  

First, there are much less-expensive ways to get money here than $45 (transferwise, etc - assuming these types of xfers have the proper "code" on one's bank-statement - assuming that is what immigration will look for - and etc we don't know yet).

 

We have to wait and see how immigration treats incoming xfers - "only monthly" or "averaged" over a period of time.  While I only need 40K/mo to meet the "married to a Thai" requirement, I don't send this precise amount monthly - some months more, then don't need more the next mo, etc.