Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Maestro]

8 hours ago, david555 said:

it start's anyway seems ...

No, the chart does not show a trend of the foreign reserves declining. Quite the contrary.

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

The published ‘police orders’ (2014) states you have to prove income, it does not say that proof can only come from an embassy, or even mention the letter as a requirement. So based on their own published rules they could waive the embassy letter.

They could, but will they?

[JimmyJ]

I had read on TVF a few months ago that Bangkok Bank was going to stop allowing ACH's from their USA branch to their Thai branches.

 

Did that policy change get cancelled? Or is that still happening in the near future (or already)?

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Thank you. I have no legal heirs in Thailand or anywhere else.

Therefore, like in many countries, without a will your estate will go to the government. Even this eventuality is covered by the law.

[Maestro]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

I had read on TVF a few months ago that Bangkok Bank was going to stop allowing ACH's from their USA branch to their Thai branches...

 

I remember reading the same.

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Therefore, like in many countries, without a will your estate will go to the government. Even this eventuality is covered by the law.

Which is why very well I won't put the 800K in a Thai bank. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Thank you. I have no legal heirs in Thailand or anywhere else.

Your "Legal Heir" doesn't have to be somebody related to you, they can be anybody you nominate or the local cats home.

 

Flip Side is that just because somebody is related to you (e.g. Son/Daughter) doesn't mean that they're your legal heir in Thailand, you need to make a Thai Will to ensure they are.

 

If you don't have anybody/thing that you want to leave your money to, then why care where it ends up? 

 

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

If you don't have anybody/thing that you want to leave your money to, then why care where it ends up? 

Because then I'd just as well use it for the Thailand Elite Visa which then people will say Yeah but you lose that and then we can go around in circles once more.

Edited October 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[Maestro]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Because then I'd just as well use it for the Thailand Elite Visa which then people will say Yeah but you lose that and then we can go around in circles once more.

In my opinion, this is a wise choice in your circumstances.

[Mike Teavee]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Because then I'd just as well use it for the Elite Visa.

That is one way of looking at it & I'm considering the same question, but as I'm only living part time in Thailand, I'm not yet confident that I want to commit to 5 (or 20) years visa expense upfront.

 

Irony being that the TE is more useful/valuable to me now (for the Airport Fast Track privileges as I'm flying in & out 2-3 times a month) than it will be when I am living there full time. 

 

 

[JLCrab]

14 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

That is one way of looking at it & I'm considering the same question <snip>

BTW for those quantitatively inclined, the Net Present Value (NPV) of purchasing in succession four 5-year Thai Elites at 500K baht each versus one 20-year Thailand Elite at 1 million baht is:

$1,370,694 at 5.00% discount rate and

$1,020,844 at 10.00% discount rate.

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[Maestro]

13 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

...Flip Side is that just because somebody is related to you (e.g. Son/Daughter) doesn't mean that they're your legal heir in Thailand, you need to make a Thai Will to ensure they are...

 

To the best of my knowledge, this is incorrect. In the absence of a will, Sections 1620 ff of the Civil and Commercial Code clearly designates what relatives are entitled to what share of the deceased's estate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Hgt14i_8TbTRx3mSu4c5WIB6rvYTe1Z3/view

 

This said, even when you have statutory heirs I still recommend strongly that you write a will and – very important – designate in your will an executor of your will.

[JLCrab]

BTW big OOPS to above NPV numbers those are baht not $.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

To the best of my knowledge, this is incorrect. In the absence of a will, Sections 1620 ff of the Civil and Commercial Code clearly designates what relatives are entitled to what share of the deceased's estate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Hgt14i_8TbTRx3mSu4c5WIB6rvYTe1Z3/view

 

This said, even when you have statutory heirs I still recommend strongly that you write a will and – very important – designate in your will an executor of your will.

Sorry, I should have clarified that I was referring to your legal heirs in your home country / outside of Thailand.

 

 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

SnakeBite:  The most recent three months of my American bank statements have been accepted at Chaeng Wattana for the past ten years.  Unless the proof of income requirements are changed, you should be OK just presenting them.

These were accepted without showing money in a Thai bank and without an embassy letter?

[Larryst]

If depositing 800K in a Thai bank. You can get a visa card attached to the account. Will the Visa card be able to use in the states or U.K. or anywhere? Might be away of getting the money out of the country. Other way would be to buy a few pieces of gold jewelry. Can always resell them at the states or any country.

[Thaidream]

19 minutes ago, Larryst said:

If depositing 800K in a Thai bank. You can get a visa card attached to the account. Will the Visa card be able to use in the states or U.K. or anywhere? Might be away of getting the money out of the country. Other way would be to buy a few pieces of gold jewelry. Can always resell them at the states or any country.

The problem is not getting the money out of the country- the problem is what will the currency be worth when exchanging Baht for Dollars; Pounds or Euros.  That is another reason why I have no intentions of  bringing 800K into Thailand and letting it sit dormant in a Thai Bank unless there is absolutely no choice.

[sqwakvfr]

Income Verification?  How could it done in Thailand?  Would Thai Immigration be willing let an experienced Visa Agency perform this function?  

 

With banks, pension funds and financial institutions all having digital platforms the actual process of verifying incomes could be simple. 

 

1.  An extension applicant would go to an approved agency and pay(of course everyone pays).  The fee has to make this new function worthwhile for any agency(5000 Baht?).  Also, this would not place a  burden on Immigration.

2.  Sign an authorization form to allow the verification of income

3.  Have the agency contact the institution to verify. 

4.  The applicant gets the verification and goes to Immigration

5.  Establish a timeframe such as the applicant has 30 days to obtain verification of income.

 

My pension fund in California has a specific unit just to verify incomes.  This is mainly because some of my fellow retirees in the same fund use their incomes to obtain loans.  My pension fund will send an actual letter or email a verification document as along I give written authorization.  The fund has confirmed they would send a verification document to Thai Immigration if I authorized it.  

 

[David Walden]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Most ridiculous post of the week?

Yes but's it calling a "spade a spade."

[Nowisee]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're on to something but you're also very much NOT onto something.

An O-A visa and a retirement extension in Thailand are NOT the same thing!

They actually have different rules for acceptance and different features in practice.

So sorry, I think you're indulging in wishful thinking. 

Any changes (or not changes) are going to be about Thai immigration in Thailand and nothing to do with O-A visa policies abroad. 

 

In the Royal Thai Embassy site, requirements for obtaining the original Non-Imm OA Retirement Visa, Line 6. - "... or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht."  Here I simply used my Annuity Statement.

 

In the Thai Immigration Bureau website (for obtaining extension) under In the case of Retirement, Criteria for Consideration - (3) - "Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or..."  Again, here I have taken it with me to Immigration each year, but they only seemed interested in the  embassy affidavit.  

No where in any current directive does it say that I must put this 65,000 baht into a thai bank account.

 

5 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

SnakeBite:  The most recent three months of my American bank statements have been accepted at Chaeng Wattana for the past ten years.  Unless the proof of income requirements are changed, you should be OK just presenting them.

 

You do not clarify if this is all you used or if you have money in (800k) or going into (65k) a thai account and did you have a affidavit to go along with all this?

 

All these plans to bounce money around and play merry-go-round with different accounts, ATM and exchange rates is crazy.  

 

IF Thai Immigration is changing the rules, I'm changing my plans as I am not putting money in this country.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Nowisee

[Jingthing]

SnakeBite:  The most recent three months of my American bank statements have been accepted at Chaeng Wattana for the past ten years.  Unless the proof of income requirements are changed, you should be OK just presenting them.

But you had an embassy letter, yes?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[gaviny]

But you had an embassy letter, yes?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Surely he must need an Embassy letter otherwise TI wouldn't accept it , and if so then US Embassy will no longer issue a letter so this method goes out the window, right?

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bkk6060]

24 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Income Verification?  How could it done in Thailand?  Would Thai Immigration be willing let an experienced Visa Agency perform this function?  

 

With banks, pension funds and financial institutions all having digital platforms the actual process of verifying incomes could be simple. 

 

1.  An extension applicant would go to an approved agency and pay(of course everyone pays).  The fee has to make this new function worthwhile for any agency(5000 Baht?).  Also, this would not place a  burden on Immigration.

2.  Sign an authorization form to allow the verification of income

3.  Have the agency contact the institution to verify. 

4.  The applicant gets the verification and goes to Immigration

5.  Establish a timeframe such as the applicant has 30 days to obtain verification of income.

 

My pension fund in California has a specific unit just to verify incomes.  This is mainly because some of my fellow retirees in the same fund use their incomes to obtain loans.  My pension fund will send an actual letter or email a verification document as along I give written authorization.  The fund has confirmed they would send a verification document to Thai Immigration if I authorized it.  

 

On paper sounds good but here sounds like you are just creating another opportunity for the agencies to commit fraud.

 

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, HAL9000 said:

Yes. You are on the correct link page. Near the bottom you see this section:

Required Documents

1. Thai Sibling case
2. Thai wife case
3. Thai husband case

All three of these cases are hot links you can click to get the three PDF files named child.pdf, wife.pdf, and husband.pdf. All three of them are not working and redirect to this link: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/not_found

That is only on the Thai language page. In English the requirements are listed. To get it in English you click Eng at the top right side of the page.

Screenshot of it in English.

 

It appears files linked to on the page in Thai do not exist on the immigration website.

 

[ubonjoe]

On 10/26/2018 at 12:03 PM, ubonjoe said:

Another off topic post has been removed. The is a serious topic and there is no room for jokes or other nonsense.

From now on there will be no notice of removals. I your post disappears you can assume that you stepped over the line.

 

 

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

And one more after removing some additional posts and replies.

And a repeat for the 5th time after cleaning out some off topic posts that derailed the topic and the resultant replies to them. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

Would Thai Immigration be willing let an experienced Visa Agency perform this function?  

...

 

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

On paper sounds good but here sounds like you are just creating another opportunity for the agencies to commit fraud.

Exactly.  If you use an agent, you don't need to show you have any money at all, beyond the agent-fee.  I don't see how it would cost any less to add the work of agents doing some form verification, since immigration is likely to want the same tea-money to OK the extension, regardless.

[marcusarelus]

4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Which is why very well I won't put the 800K in a Thai bank. 

You've never had a bank account with a minimum balance? 

[Jingthing]

Surely he must need an Embassy letter otherwise TI wouldn't accept it , and if so then US Embassy will no longer issue a letter so this method goes out the window, right?

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Yes until and unless Thai immigration announces a policy change saying embassy letters are no longer required and details what exactly will be required without them going forward.

For now switching to the bank method is the safest option for continuing extensions in Thailand.

We can all hope that TI will resolve this uncertainty in a clear and definitive manner ASAP but that doesn't mean that they will.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Mojado]

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

I remember reading the same.

 

[GinBoy2]

Well playmates, after 91 pages of discussion, bottom line is no-one is going to know anything until Jan 1st or 2nd when they try to do an extension based on income.

Thailand is Thailand, who knows what might change in the next few months, but the only thing you do know is that the embassies have pushed back on the immigration request to verify all income statements.

That probably came as a shock to them, since as you all know regulations in Thailand are, 'fluid' so to speak, but the embassies take this literally, and just aint playing ball.

So just chill, try not to worry about things you can't change, and if you have to, make a Plan B, just in case