Income Affidavit Denied in Phuket

[Sheryl]

Mine in my Bangkok Bank book has FTT (foreign telex transfer) in the code column.

Must vary by bank. My Kasikorn book does not show this and my local branch has been unable to determine where funds came from without the Credit Advice from HQ branch.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[steve73]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The latter. Always have.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So you're saying that you keep 800k minimum in your Thai bank for 3 months before you apply for your extension, and Thai Immigration STILL want to see evidence of that money coming into Thailand from elsewhere.....?

If this is to become a common requirement across all Imm offices then it will impact many others. 

[Chongalulu]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

When money is transferred from oversees there is something called a "credit advice" that comes in. Your bank HQ will have it.

 

Even though I use the 800K method my Imm office requires proof the money came from overseas, I get that in a bank letter and for that I have to show the bank the various credit advices. They then include the details in their letter, describing briefly each transfer.

 

You can arrange with most banks to have these Credit Advices sent to you routinely. Then when extension time comes around you bring them to the bank and have them include this info in a letter, i.e. Mr X bank account number X has received X transfers from abroad into his account as follows:  (amounts, dates, where from)"

 

This is what a Credit Advice from Kasikorn bank looks like:

 

I use an FX company (World first) not an expensive bank to send money to my Kasikorn bank. No paperwork of the sort you show is routinely generated,just an entry in my bank book with a 'BNT' and some numbers shown in the right hand column headed 'Teller number '. Does this signify (and would immigration understand) that this relates to overseas transfers? If not, could Kasikorn retrospectively produce documentation for either this purpose or for the purposes of proving I’d brought the money in should I ever wish to repatriate funds? 

On a separate note,all this uncertainty about income letters is simply giving self important IOs the opportunity to grandstand,flex their muscles and put their own interpretation on things. 

[ubonjoe]

39 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Must vary by bank.

That seems odd that the branch cannot confirm it.

Online banking shows it as "International Transfer".

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Must vary by bank. My Kasikorn book does not show this and my local branch has been unable to determine where funds came from without the Credit Advice from HQ branch.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Strange, my Kasikorn bankbook shows me the code so I can see where the money came from.

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Strange, my Kasikorn bankbook shows me the code so I can see where the money came from.

What actual code does it show? See my post re BNT above .

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I was siting here thinking exactly that- when you are the Commissioner of Immigration- there is an expectation people will listen to you- a compromise could have easily been reached- it's the Thai way- BE and US Embassy- said NO- loud and clear with no hint of negotiation. An insulting answer in my opinion. I don't feel comfortable at all ......I am actually hoping after the election... the Commissioner gets a promotion and moves on..

The reported meeting that started all this trouble pre-dated the new commissioner's appointment.  To put it in context, the problems encountered by foreigners staying in Thailand have been getting worse for years - regardless of who head Immigration, or what govt is in power.  Given that, I doubt the elections will have an effect. 

 

It would take a grass-roots movement of Thai citizens who benefit from Western expats and visitors to (maybe) change policy.  That effort could be financially-backed by Thai condo and business owners who rely on Western clientele, with the ranks filled by their employees and smaller-vendors who depend on us to stay in business. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by JackThompson

[Ebumbu]

2 hours ago, ronjomtien said:

chon buri immigration....showed USA income letter for 1 year extension...60 seconds later, finished, home

Seriously best **** news all week. Thank you man. 

 

Is this same as Jomtien? I do not know the area. Where do I need to move to get this immigration office? Pattaya proper? Or is Jomtien fine? Chon Buri means Pattaya only? 

 

Thanks.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Ebumbu

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Seriously best **** news all week. Thank you man. 

 

Is this same as Jomtien? I do not know the area. Where do I need to move to get this immigration office? Pattaya proper? Or is Jomtien fine? Chon Buri means Pattaya only? 

 

Thanks.

The Jomtien office covers the Pattaya area also.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Is this same as Jomtien? I do not know the area. Where do I need to move to get this immigration office? Pattaya proper? Or is Jomtien fine? Chon Buri means Pattaya only? 

Chon Buri is the official name for the immigration office located in Jomtien that is for Pattaya and areas around it.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, nchuckle said:

I use an FX company (World first) not an expensive bank to send money to my Kasikorn bank. No paperwork of the sort you show is routinely generated,just an entry in my bank book with a 'BNT' and some numbers shown in the right hand column headed 'Teller number '. Does this signify (and would immigration understand) that this relates to overseas transfers? If not, could Kasikorn retrospectively produce documentation for either this purpose or for the purposes of proving I’d brought the money in should I ever wish to repatriate funds? 

On a separate note,all this uncertainty about income letters is simply giving self important IOs the opportunity to grandstand,flex their muscles and put their own interpretation on things. 

I think they have always had the muscle, 'according to the discretion of the IO' raises its ugly head somewhere.

[sawadee1947]

Change the country if you don't accept rules and procedures here! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I asked above, but I don't think you ever answered:

 

When you met with the Immigration officer at Phuket Immigration:

 

1. Did you have any documents with you from the U.S. verifying/supporting the income that was claimed on your Embassy Income affidavit (like bank statements, pension statements, etc etc)?

 

2. And if you did have any such documents with you for that meeting, did you show them to the IO or try to show them to the IO, and what if anything came from that?

 

 

Well, I've posed these questions twice now to the OP, who's been posting in this thread in the meantime, and no answer has been forthcoming.

 

So, perhaps the OP didn't have any backup documents to support his Embassy income affidavit, and thus had nothing more to show the IO handling his application.

 

Without any answer from the OP, we really can't know whether he was denied because he couldn't provide backup documents to support his Embassy income affidavit (which would not be unreasonable), or (the much worse scenario) that the IO simply decided to reject his Embassy letter out of hand, which shouldn't be occurring.

 

Especially in the current era, if I was relying on an Embassy income affidavit at ANY Immigration Office these days, I'd plan on bringing backup documents to show, just in case.

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Chongalulu]

17 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Change the country if you don't accept rules and procedures here! 

Exactly what are the country’s rules and procedures here in this respect. I mean it’s not as though it might vary from office to office, IO to IO and day to day ,is it..?

[Russell17au]

What I see is that because both the UK and US embassies have publicly stated that they cannot and will not verify their citizens incomes that this is going to happen at many if not all of the Immigration Offices. As for "INCOME" I do not believe that they want to know about the transferring of money from the US to Thai bank accounts, I believe that they want to know "WHERE" your income is coming from: US Social Security Pension, private investments, private pensions, that type of documentation. A printout of your private social security pension payment would prove where your income is coming from. Bank accounts mean nothing because you can play with bank accounts by transferring money from one account to another and that does not prove where your INCOME is coming from.

[ElephantEgo]

14 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I asked above, but I don't think you ever answered:

 

When you met with the Immigration officer at Phuket Immigration:

 

1. Did you have any documents with you from the U.S. verifying/supporting the income that was claimed on your Embassy Income affidavit (like bank statements, pension statements, etc etc)?

 

2. And if you did have any such documents with you for that meeting, did you show them to the IO or try to show them to the IO, and what if anything came from that?

Sorry for my delayed reply. No I only had the income affidavit and first and last page of bank book as they requested, I did not have any other supporting documents because they did not request it (the day before). Even on the second day when the income affidavit was rejected, I can now confirm, the IO told my wife that she can only allow the monthly income method for military and government incomes. She did have a look at my bank book, but didn't seem to draw any conclusion from it.

 

Now I have transferred in the remainder of the 480000 THB from abroad. I will try to go to the bank to get it all stamped on my passbook now, and may go back in to immigration tomorrow to show them and see if it helps at all...

 

To summarize the above discussion, it sounds like Bangkok and Chon Buri are still honoring the income letters without additional documentation (let alone government/military incomes!).

Edited November 1, 2018 by JakeR

[WorriedNoodle]

4 hours ago, steve73 said:

So you're saying that you keep 800k minimum in your Thai bank for 3 months before you apply for your extension, and Thai Immigration STILL want to see evidence of that money coming into Thailand from elsewhere.....?

I've been doing extensions for past 11 years in Bangkok and upcountry, never been asked to prove where the 800k came from. Did last extension in August this year.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

I've been doing extensions for past 11 years in Bangkok and upcountry, never been asked to prove where the 800k came from. Did last extension in August this year.

If you are using the 800,000/400,000 in the bank method then you do not have to prove where it came from, all you need is the letter from the bank. If you are using the 65,000/40,000 per month then you are required to have the income letter from the embassy and they can also ask you for proof of where your income is derived from.

[ubonjoe]

50 minutes ago, JakeR said:

Sorry for my delayed reply. No I only had the income affidavit and first and last page of bank book as they requested, I did not have any other supporting documents because they did not request it (the day before). Even on the second day when the income affidavit was rejected, I can now confirm, the IO told my wife that she can only allow the monthly income method for military and government incomes. She did have a look at my bank book, but didn't seem to draw any conclusion from it.

I think she is giving you the runaround. I think you need to talk to a supervisor.

There is nothing that states that it has to be retirement income which is what she is implying.

Here what the police order 138/2557 for the documents required states.

The tax return would apply if you were working here.

[Thaidream]

17 minutes ago, JakeR said:

ow I have transferred in the remainder of the 480000 THB from abroad. I will try to go to the bank to get it all stamped on my passbook now, and may go back in to immigration tomorrow to show them and see if it helps at all..

Thanks for getting back to us- important info for those using Phuket-  I can't imagine you will have any more problems with the required amount in the bank....Keep us posted

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, JakeR said:

Sorry for my delayed reply. No I only had the income affidavit and first and last page of bank book as they requested, I did not have any other supporting documents because they did not request it (the day before). Even on the second day when the income affidavit was rejected, I can now confirm, the IO told my wife that she can only allow the monthly income method for military and government incomes. She did have a look at my bank book, but didn't seem to draw any conclusion from it.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that....

 

It will be interesting to see if that same "we'll only accept monthly income from government or military sources" demand starts cropping up at any other Immigration offices for Brit and USA extension applicants who are heading toward no longer having Embassy income affidavits.

 

In these kind of situations, you're never quite sure whether what a particular Immigration officer is doing is an oddball outlyer, or, the start of a new operational policy in these times of change.

 

[seajae]

as an aussie I get a copy of my tax advice slip  for the financial year ending in june and have the embassy stamp and sign it, I also do an affidavit stating how much I transfer to my Bangkok Bank account every 4 weeks and have them do the same to it, always been good enough although I always include copies of my bank account as well

[Mansell]

It doesn't sound good for Phuket going by the volunteers info. Our embassies seem to have stuck it to us with no thought to their nationals. It may be time, especially on Phuket, to start telling the local Thais the government is trying to drive out the farang. If the Thais get angry and vocal Big Joke may step in etc. and make some positive changes. 

For those of you really concerned and don't fancy BKK or Pattaya, things seem okay up here in Korat with IO, in fact they were opening on Saturday mornings to help out the farang. Which is somewhat amusing because on a busy day they have around 20 to 30 farang.

Did my annual extension in September with the letter and no bank books, in and out in 50 minutes complete. But please don't all move up here and screw things up for the rest of us......we'll take ten a month only. Grin!

Personally I think this new non-official policy will drive many to stay illegally creating more problems for immigration. Like most things here not really thought through properly.

I would hate to leave my lady and the boys, but I really like Vietnam.

[moontang]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think she is giving you the runaround. I think you need to talk to a supervisor.

There is nothing that states that it has to be retirement income which what she is implying.

Here what the police order 138/2557 for the documents required states.

The tax return would apply if you were working here.

No surprise that a government worker believes that the only way to get money is from the government...certainly would be the case for them.  I look young for a retirement extendor...but they constantly ask where I work, and about my WP, which I dont have or need.  Work and save...actually a lot to that..but they just dont get it.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, JakeR said:

Sorry for my delayed reply. No I only had the income affidavit and first and last page of bank book as they requested, I did not have any other supporting documents because they did not request it (the day before). Even on the second day when the income affidavit was rejected, I can now confirm, the IO told my wife that she can only allow the monthly income method for military and government incomes. She did have a look at my bank book, but didn't seem to draw any conclusion from it.

 

Now I have transferred in the remainder of the 480000 THB from abroad. I will try to go to the bank to get it all stamped on my passbook now, and may go back in to immigration tomorrow to show them and see if it helps at all...

 

To summarize the above discussion, it sounds like Bangkok and Chon Buri are still honoring the income letters without additional documentation (let alone government/military incomes!).

Phuket is on a regular basis asking for proof of money spent locally. I don't think this is connected to the UK and US income verification letter saga at all.

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Change the country if you don't accept rules and procedures here! 

I was waiting for the teacher's pet to pop up. Took a long time, but he's there in every thread.

Edited November 1, 2018 by jesimps

[balo]

Just move to Pattaya , no problems here......yet. 

 

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Chon Buri is the official name for the immigration office located in Jomtien that is for Pattaya and areas around it.

The funny thing is that there are or were two shingles on the building:

1. "Chon Buri Immigration" above the main entrance door
2. "Pattaya Immigration Office" on the wall to the right of the main entrance

Photo source: www.thailandimmigration.org/thai-immigration-pattaya

[jesimps]

7 minutes ago, Maestro said:

The funny thing is that there are or were two shingles on the building:

1. "Chon Buri Immigration" above the main entrance door
2. "Pattaya Immigration Office" on the wall to the right of the main entrance

Photo source: www.thailandimmigration.org/thai-immigration-pattaya

Can't work out if that's an old or new photo. I never hang around to admire the architecture, am usually in and out like greased weasel ...t!

[Wake Up]

I can confirm that I was told by the supervisor of Bangkok CW that all USA income affidavits will be accepted if dated before January 1, 2019 and not older than six months from the date signed. Sorry for Phuket but in Bangkok I think we are ok for the first months of next year with USA income affidavits. Thereafter it is 800 k in a Thai bank or 65K a month deposited into a Thai bank every month. The money can come from anywhere and does not need to be from overseas.