Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[jimn]

13 minutes ago, amdy2206 said:

I still don't understand where the problem is. You need to have money in the bank to live here - if you have, great. If not, you do not qualify to stay. Very simple. You need to have your income monthly into a Thai bank. If you do, where is the problem? If you can't, you don't qualify to live here. It is very simple. Do you qualify, or not? If so, stay, if not, go home. I would never think of leaving that much in a Thai bank, hence I would not live in Thailand. I live in Laos instead.

Ever heard of home country bank accounts and bank cash transfers into Thailand. Ever heard of zero fee home country credit cards that I use for food and petrol. I think my Thai bank balance is about 6,000 baht. I dont need money in my Thai bank account to live very well here thank you. I do however require an embassy letter to varify my income which I do spend here but dont deposit in a bank here by choice. Who are you to tell me I dont qualify to live here.

[Sir Dude]

Might as well say "We generally don't want you here unless you are rich and willing to accept our silly BS"...other than that, move along and please leave.

[MaxYakov]

20 minutes ago, jimn said:

I tend to bring over from the UK a large cash amount to last me the 7 months I am here as I know what a cash oriented country Thailand still is. I use my Halifax Clarity Credit Card for purchases from Tesco Lotus, Big C and for petrol for the car. Its a no foreign transaction card with mastercard foreign transaction rates simlar to forex. I am no youngster but I do find a smartphone useful. Especially to check my online bank statements and buy online etc. If used right they are just a portable computer. I know they can be very additive but thats down to the indivudual. I now would be lost without one.

I hope you're not carrying enough cash on your person seeing your use of "bring over" rather than "wire transfer". I was once questioned by a Federal agent as to the amount of cash I was carrying before boarding a flight to Russia. It was OK. I was traveling from one quasi police state to visit another serious police state so everything was kosher. ????

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Is it in existence for the Aussie, Brits or Americans? Is this post about the Aussie income letter? Have I referred to any other embassies in my comments?

You are just ridiculous 

Don't you think that IF Thai Immigration had decided to refuse letters from these 3 embassies (they didn't!) they would have made an announcement to inform people of these countries? I do. 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

You are just ridiculous 

Don't you think that IF Thai Immigration had decided to refuse letters from these 3 embassies (they didn't!) they would have made an announcement to inform people of these countries? I do. 

What you think is entirely irrelevant to me. It's all been spelled out crystal clear, if you are still confused ask someone else to explain it, I don't have the patience for the slow learners.

[pontious]

46 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Possibly their verification process is not nearly as resilient as the Dutch, German and (allegedly) Swedish pension verification processes are?

In all the zillions of posts on this matter I have not seen one example where an embassy has VERIFIED the income.. Can you show me one.

[Sydebolle]

Well, it took the embassies to state that his is all absolutely unnecessary paperwork. 

You can open any non-Thai publication in i.e. Pattaya and you'll find ads of service providers for visa letters, bank guarantees and proof-of-capital. 

Maybe it's time that the immigration people start streamlining and facilitating things for the aliens as well as for them. So far I could never see the reason behind this paperwork which goes in line with the 90-days reporting jokes! 

[The Truth]

Nobody had a problem when "Big Joke" was nicking and deporting darkies left and right for being illegal but as soon as it's lying farang being lined up for the chop now that he's the Big Boss at immigration, everyone's crying 'foul'.

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, The Truth said:

Nobody had a problem when "Big Joke" was nicking and deporting darkies left and right for being illegal but as soon as it's lying farang being lined up for the chop now that he's the Big Boss at immigration, everyone's crying 'foul'.

This has nothing to do with "Big Joke". The confirmation that TI wanted a real amount on the Income Letter is said to have happen in May, and Big Joke was not yet at his current post then.

[The Truth]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

This has nothing to do with "Big Joke". The confirmation that TI wanted a real amount on the Income Letter is said to have happen in May, and Big Joke was not yet at his current post then.

He was being groomed for that position long ago. He probably suggested it.

 

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

So if I sit at a computer under the watchful eye of any embassy employee, log into my Social Security account, brokerage account, etc., bring up my benefits letter, brokerage balance letter, or bank statement, print it, and the embassy employee certifies it, no privacy laws are broken.

Isn't going to happen. The US embassy is doing everything it can to avoid providing citizen services. You are now even forced to receive your renewed passport through the mail instead of picking it up. Appointments for everything. Nobody can go in with you. If multiple people need notary services, each one must make an individual appointment. They are not going to go down the path you describe. It would turn a fifteen second income statement signing into a 30 minute long detailed business appointment. No chance.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Why are these threads so popular? What's the problem putting some petty cash in the bank?

 

For years, many forum members of mature age here have been complaining about cheap backpackers and welcoming every new visa rule limiting their stay. What's the problem of putting 800k baht in the bank which at your advanced age should represent 2-5% of your wealth? Most of you should be on extension anyway.

 

Unless, of course, everyone has been lying.

[Lacessit]

Once again confirming the Australian Consulate here is as useless as tits on a bull. I'm not even sure it is legal to withdraw the right to make a Statutory Declaration from an Australian citizen. Although I suppose they won't be facing too many Supreme or High Court challenges.

[fdbob]

12 hours ago, giddyup said:

I can imagine this is going to cause some sleepless nights among Aussie retirees to Thailand.

Aussie Embassy to busy to take our money they just built a new embassy and it’s still empty but now you have to make an appointment to see some one who’s doing f#@$k> all

Edited November 2, 2018 by fdbob

[Will27]

1 hour ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Does this mean getting a Type O visa for purposes of retirement with very little scrutiny from these embassies? Even if that were possible, it's only good for 3 months before needing to be extended in Thailand. I don't understand this "loophole." Would like to know this option. Like many others, I'm trying to figure out a plan.  ????

 

 

It's for getting a non immi o visa based on marriage.

 

Valid for 12 months but you have to leave the country every 90 days.

[Lacessit]

Just now, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Why are these threads so popular? What's the problem putting some petty cash in the bank?

 

For years, many forum members of mature age here have been complaining about cheap backpackers and welcoming every new visa rule limiting their stay. What's the problem of putting 800k baht in the bank which at your advanced age should represent 2-5% of your wealth? Most of you should be on extension anyway.

 

Unless, of course, everyone has been lying.

AFAIK, quite a few have. That has screwed it up for the honest ones.

AUD 35K is not exactly petty cash, but point taken.

[daejung]

9 hours ago, onera1961 said:

As this forum is in English, I guess other nationals reading this forum are few and far between. If you're reading this forum can you post your embassies policies as of today. I think French embassy has already posted they cannot issue affidavit. The tsunami is coming. Be prepared with alternate strategies. 

That's not true.

French embassy in Bangkok issues such affidavit. It's written on their website and I call them up this week from France for extra details.

Here is the page, under "Decalarations de revenus" and if you click on "Déclaration de revenus" in section 2b :

Quote

2b - Au même moment, l’usager envoie par courrier (idéalement EMS) le formulaire « déclaration de revenu » joint, renseigné et signé en indiquant le montant mensuel de ses ressources...

then you'll get the form itself.

They do no check your income figures which are mentionned under your responsbaility.

But, if need be, they also can certify government documents, such as income tax statement (Pension payments are not made by government administration).

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by aixois
adding 3 words

[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, giddyup said:

It's designed to force expats to actually prove they can meet the financial criteria instead of signing a possibly fraudulent stat dec.

It may be designed to do that, but it clearly doesn't do that.  All it proves is that somehow the person got 65k baht transferred in for 3 months.  The person could have borrowed the money. The person could have been spending down some cash and in one month may be broke.  Three months of transfers in no way proves the person has any reliable and repeatable income.

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, fdbob said:

Aussie Embassy to busy to take our money they just built a new embassy and it’s still empty but now you have to make an appointment to see some one who’s doing f#@$k> all

Dear me. Are you suggesting our dedicated public servants are lazy clockwatchers?

Look on the bright side. They may find themselves a bit strapped for cash when they can no longer charge $77 for using a stamp and scribbling a signature on a Statutory Declaration which they don't even check.

[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, giddyup said:

And what about other cases, like mine, where I only get a part goverment pension because of other income, like interest on term deposits, allocated pensions, superannuation, rental income etc? Do you think embassies have the time, expertise or manpower to be checking all that out.

Similarly for me the majority of my passive income comes from my investments. I have over a 1 million USD portfolio in solid dividend paying stocks, individual tax free municipal bonds, several bond funds, several preferred stock funds, etc.  I get over $60,000 USD a year in dividend and interest.  I also soon will get social security soon which by itself thanks to my high salary over the years can cover the 65k Baht monthly amount, although no idea at the moment what proof would be provided.  Neglecting my social security, I have no plans to regularly spend time and money to transfer in funds. When I arrive in country I will have $10,000 USD, and will go back home once or twice a year and bring in more.  I have no plans to open a Thai bank account and put in 800k baht and then have to report $10,000 in a foreign account to the US Government.  Some of my dividends come in quarterly, i.e. every 3 months.  And  some of my monies would actually come out of some of my IRA accounts, one of which has tax considerations, I move my money around in a way that benefits me tax wise.  And since in two years most of my monies from my traditional IRA will be in my ROTH IRA, I basically won't have much income being shown, with the exception of the 1040 form which does show tax free ROTH withdrawals.  So there is no way to explain these things to Thais. 

 

  I am open to having to submit some sort of proof of income, but at the moment I don't see how the Thais would understand it.  I can provide estimated incomes from my Etrade brokerage which has a very fine income estimator and that along with my social security will show I have $80 K USD a year income.  But if the Thais want bank account numbers, brokerage account numbers, etc.  well, that is too much personal information.  Not sure how this will shake out.  One year away from when I would semi retire, so will wait and see

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

All it proves is that somehow the person got 65k baht transferred in for 3 months. //  Three months of transfers in no way proves the person has any reliable and repeatable income.

Who said 3 months? It should be 12 month to prove income.

[gk10002000]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

Who said 3 months? It should be 12 month to prove income.

There have been reports of them asking for 3 months of incoming transfers.  And, that does not even answer the question of how a newly retired person would show income!  The person has not been in country yet!  Show proof to the Thai embassy in one's home country?

[EricTh]

It's great that another loophole is closed because many British people do have multiple citizenships in USA, Canada and Australia.

 

I hope that Canada will close its loophole soon.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by EricTh

[EricTh]

44 minutes ago, aixois said:

That's not true.

French embassy in Bangkok issues such affidavit. It's written on their website and I call them up this week from France for extra details.

Here is the page, under "Decalarations de revenus" and if you click on "Déclaration de revenus" in section 2b :

then you'll get the form itself.

They do no check your income figures which are mentionned under your responsbaility.

But, if need be, they also can certify government documents, such as income tax statement (Pension payments are not made by government administration).

 

 

Most of the retirees I've met are from English speaking countries such as USA, Canada, Australia, UK. The odd one out is Japan who also form a substantial number.

 

Sure, there are other nationalities as well but these 5 nationalities form the largest.

 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

In all the zillions of posts on this matter I have not seen one example where an embassy has VERIFIED the income.. Can you show me one.

I joined this thread a bit late when it was 8 hours old and had only about 20 posts. I subsequently read every post, stopping to contribute and about 4 hours later, I got to the 'front page' which at that time was around 34. Now, somewhere in between that lot, there were several posts by a Dutch forum member and a link to a Dutch government document by another Dutch forum member that pretty much shut down the noisome few who were calling BS on their claims that the Dutch Embassy does do verification.

 

Feel free to browse for those posts. I'm off to make a cuppa.

[MaxYakov]

38 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

There have been reports of them asking for 3 months of incoming transfers.  And, that does not even answer the question of how a newly retired person would show income!  The person has not been in country yet!  Show proof to the Thai embassy in one's home country?

Or Thai consulate. A few times I obtained double-entry tourist visas from the Thai consulate in LA, California. At the time I did not determine if they could have issued a retirement visa to me and I still do not know if they could nor do I know if they will be able to in the future. It would make sense that they could ... then again ...

Edited November 2, 2018 by MaxYakov

[johnmcc6]

So do they still accept proof from bank of say half a million in bank account  plus deposit books showing income for say 50, 000 income?

[gentlemanjackdarby]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Why are these threads so popular? What's the problem putting some petty cash in the bank?

 

For years, many forum members of mature age here have been complaining about cheap backpackers and welcoming every new visa rule limiting their stay. What's the problem of putting 800k baht in the bank which at your advanced age should represent 2-5% of your wealth? Most of you should be on extension anyway.

 

Unless, of course, everyone has been lying.

Of course a lot of folks have been lying since most people really don't plan and execute for retirement.

 

Speaking as one for whom the deposit represents, on a percentage basis, an immaterial amount of my net worth, no matter what percentage it happens to represent of one's net worth, at the end of the day it represents about USD 24,000 and USD 24,000 is USD 24,000.

 

I completely understand those who point out that having that amount of money in a foreign country whose political and banking systems are not as stable and 'user friendly' as those in the countries from which most come may be cause for concern, especially if one happens to pass away there.

 

And speaking as someone who has worked consistently since age 10, I didn't get what I've got by not paying attention to the pennies - as the old saying goes, 'watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves'.

 

At the end of the day, does anyone really believe that someone who can prove they have at least the equivalent of THB 800,000 in some sort of account back home or can meet the income requirement from back home is somehow going to become a burden on the Thai state simply because their resources aren't in a Thai bank?

 

And why shouldn't one be able to keep one's assets working harder back in their home country, especially since in this day-and-age it's just not that hard to prove one's financial resources.

 

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

and will go back home once or twice a year and bring in more. 

Get an O-A. Don't bother with TI. Even to stick a finger on their face, fly out to a neighboring country to avoid 90-day reporting. Only reporting of your address you have to is in your arrival card. 

[onera1961]

44 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Or Thai consulate. A few times I obtained double-entry tourist visas from the Thai consulate in LA, California. At the time I did not determine if they could have issued a retirement visa to me and I still do not know if they could nor do I know if they will be able to in the future. It would make sense that they could ... then again ...

There is no retirement visa. But there is long-stay O-A visa which is ME and each time you enter the country, you get one year permission to stay. If exit/enter before the visa expires,  it can be used form almost 24 months to stay in Thailand legally. I am on such a visa. The requirements are the same but you don't have to bring any money to a Thai bank.