12 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Here's the living costs in Thailand at the detail level, Chiang Mai versus Bangkok as an example, feel free to change the locations to compare as you wish: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Thailand&country2=Thailand&city1=Bangkok&city2=Chiang+Mai&tracking=getDispatchComparison

 

What we see from the link is that Bangkok is about twice as expensive as Chiang Mai but earnings are

11 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

 

also double, I'm sure if we look at nakon nowhere in Issan we'll see the same discrepancies. So on that basis, how is it possible to generalise about the cost of living in Thailand, simply, it's not!

A lot of bs figures! I see that the list is made by user contributions, which of course are mostly foreigners who pay way too much for most items. These figures do not represent the actual values. 

Edited November 3, 20187 yr by Cheops
Spelling

19 minutes ago, Cheops said:

A lot of bs figures! I see that the list is made by user contributions, which of course are mostly foreigners who pay way too much for most items. These figures do not represent the actual values. 

Are you saying it is impossible to arrive at a cost of living figure in Thailand?

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

 

 

I'm not going to debate this subject with you much more because we don't agree and you're not posting any proof to support your claims, just like the previous poster I challenged on this, all you've got is rhetoric without proof and you're passing it off as fact!

Rhetoric without proof? You are presenting statistics as if they are holy writ, and refusing to acknowledge the weaknesses in sampling and assumptions. Have you ever heard of skewed distributions?

I'm willing to bet you have limited understanding of terms in statistics such as precision, accuracy, repeatability, reliability and validity. And you have the gall to ask me if I understand averages. Yes I do, along with means, medians, and modes. Let's not forget nominal, ordinal, interval and ratio data levels. Can you define those without Google?

I believe I've come up with the prize I mentioned before. It's a course in basic statistics.

46 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Are you saying it is impossible to arrive at a cost of living figure in Thailand?

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the listed figures from the link in that post are not very representative. If Thai people would fill this in you would see quite different figures. Clothes and sneakers more expensive than upcountry?? That's not correct. A meal at McD on average 199? In Bangkok the McD meals are between 70 and 175, so how come the average is 199? The first item 'Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant' 80 baht. In Bangkok you can find thousands of inexpensive restaurants with meals of 30 baht. etc. etc.

 

Most (if not all?) data on that site comes from foreigners who mostly are located in the more expensive streets in Bangkok.

 

Summary about cost of living in Bangkok:

• Four-person family monthly costs: 76,577.99฿ without rent

 

555, tell that to the average Thai familie in Bangkok with an income of 40k baht.

 

10 minutes ago, Cheops said:

555 indeed. Price of full bread Farmhouse = 36 Baht (until recently it was 33 baht for the last 10 years).

Milk Meiji 2 liter is 91.5 baht in every store countrywide.

Farmhouse bread went up to 40bht last week.

I make my own, around 10bht/500gm loaf for a Wholewheat/Rye mix loaf, the flour is the same price as it was 6 years back, hard to understand the price rises (32bht/kg white bread flour, 38bht/kg wholewheat flour).

Edited November 3, 20187 yr by BritManToo

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Farmhouse bread went up to 40bht last week.

I make my own, less than 10bht/500gm loaf for a Wholewheat/Rye mix loaf, the flour is the same price as it was 6 years back, hard to understand the price rises (32bht/kg white bread flour, 38bht/kg wholewheat flour).

Ohh, I paid 36 baht for Farmhouse since a couple of weeks. Last bought yesterday @ Max Value.

Price is the same at the 7-11, Makro, Tops, big-C and Max Value (the shops where I usually shop in Bangkok).

Making your own is much better indeed, but don't have the time for that.

9 hours ago, Cheops said:

A lot of bs figures! I see that the list is made by user contributions, which of course are mostly foreigners who pay way too much for most items. These figures do not represent the actual values. 

Of course the contributors are mostly foreigners, it's not a Thai web site written in Thai, what else would you expect!

 

Look, if you want to ignore the numbers, be my guest - if you think the numbers are too high and that you know of cheaper prices (which from the sounds of things you probably do since you know of thousands of 30 baht restaurant), ignore them. What you can't ignore however is that the link was provided to demonstrate that the cost of living in Thailand varies based on location, Nakon Nowhere being the cheapest, the CBD in Bangkok probably being the highest, cost of living is, therefore, a variable based on location. Yes, a loaf of farmhouse costs the same blah blah blah, that doesn't change the fact that one location is more expensive than another based on rents, cost per square metre, salaries and availability. So yes, those numbers do represent actual values, they just don't represent the absolute cheapest values which is what you want to see in order to meet the average income of the impoverished in your poorest village!

 

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:36 AM, Lungstib said:

On the very far north border where I live people earn minimal wage and know they have to live simple, make it go round and there is little competition to outdo their neighbours. Saving is virtually impossible. But down in C Mai there is a class of workers who want the good things in life and are not prepared to go without. They buy expensive big screen TV's, computers, mobiles, auto's and even houses to keep up with their neighbours and borrow to do so. You'd be hard pressed to find a group of Thais with ordinary jobs who actually save money monthly. For that you would need to look at business owners, managers etc. Bangkok is maybe a different world, I know nothing of how they live.

Saddly True, BUT---- this is the same world wide, you can not save a dime in NZ if you have a ordinary wage.

The kiwi dream of owning a house is out the window, with the average house price creeping over 1,000,00.

 

Imagine Greece and other European countries, Thailand is lucky that many can live a simple life and have a laugh but it is tough out there, modern day slavery by the power of economics.

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed:

 

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Other posts containing off topic baiting comments and bickering have been reported and removed as well. 

There's an interesting table here that tracks minimum wage growth, inflation and GDP across Asean and China from 2013 to the present. Thais are the highest paid (except for Singapore) in the region, but their minimum wage growth compared with others has dropped considerably over the period. Interesting table. A lot of work in it.

https://aecnewstoday.com/2018/asean-wages-measly-pay-rise-sees-philippine-wages-continue-to-shrink/

8 hours ago, Cheops said:

Making your own is much better indeed, but don't have the time for that.

 

Takes 3 mins to load a bread machine.

22 minutes ago, Yme said:

There's an interesting table here that tracks minimum wage growth, inflation and GDP across Asean and China from 2013 to the present. Thais are the highest paid (except for Singapore) in the region, but their minimum wage growth compared with others has dropped considerably over the period. Interesting table. A lot of work in it.

https://aecnewstoday.com/2018/asean-wages-measly-pay-rise-sees-philippine-wages-continue-to-shrink/

A very useful article, finally. Interesting to see that the trend has been repeated elsewhere in the region, countries with low a very minimum wage that has not kept pace with inflation have increased the minimum from between 173% and 200% in the period 2013 to 2017, pretty much the same picture as Thailand.

 

Once again, increasing the minimum wage in these countries is governments reaction to inflation, it IS NOT the cause of it, simply, minimum wages have not been adjusted for inflation over many years hence large one time adjustments became necessary.

 

Nobody denies that Thailand has seen inflation, the earlier graph showing CPI increased by 100 points over 40 years confirms that. What is denied though is the cause of that inflation which is not related to the minimum wage. What is also strongly disputed is that the average income is less than circa 14k. there may well be anecdotal evidence to suggest it is lower but such evidence only looks at part of the labour force, not the sum of it.

 

On Saturday, November 03, 2018 at 6:40 AM, BritManToo said:

 

Where's that BritMan , time to move unless the place starts with P.

13 minutes ago, toofarnorth said:

Where's that BritMan , time to move unless the place starts with P.

SanSai in Chiang mai, but it may be TooFarNorth for you.

The last report I saw said the average Thai household debt was over 300000 baht.

No wonder when teachers who little can get loans upto 3M baht which is totally absurd. 

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

That's not cheese. It's emulsified, congealed plastic.

1

Is this any better?

I don't think I've ever seen cheese cheaper than that 'Beston Cheddar' in Thailand before.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

The last report I saw said the average Thai household debt was over 300000 baht.

No wonder when teachers who little can get loans upto 3M baht which is totally absurd. 

As of April this year it was THB 139,000 per household, the paper that cannot be linked here has an article on the subject. Here's another that talks about the breakdown of that debt, note that discretionary spending tops the list by a mile.https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/FT-Confidential-Research/Ballooning-household-debt-will-slow-Thailand-s-growth

I thought I had found the bargain of all bargains here.

And prices had actually gone down. 

 

Until I was informed it was lazy thai writing. 

B/F isn't bar fine.

Its Break Fast.

 

I was thinking Short time.

And Full time...

 

 

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

What is also strongly disputed is that the average income is less than circa 14k. there may well be anecdotal evidence to suggest it is lower but such evidence only looks at part of the labour force, not the sum of it.

 

I myself, am interested in knowing what the median income is here in Thailand.

Me, A rich Bum, and loving Thailand because it's So Cheap

22 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I myself, am interested in knowing what the median income is here in Thailand.

Best I can do is the average monthly income, THB 14,075 but higher in Bangkok at 25,500. https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/wages - https://checkinprice.com/average-minimum-salary-in-bangkok-thailand/

On 11/2/2018 at 7:00 PM, Stocky said:

In a nutshell that's the global problem.

 

Exacerbated by social media "look what I've got!" - creating a never ending circle of consumption and envy.

 

.

This is how (Western) Capitalism works; by making people more and more discontented through advertising so that they buy more and more stuff they dont need with the false belief that it will make them happy and to keep up with their neighbours. Capitalism depends on this mindless consumerism. Most of our forefathers were lifted out of poverty allowing most of us to enjoy our high 'Western' standard of living simply because of the jobs created manufacturing and distributing the goods for a Consumer society. Im not sure if it is tragic or comic that the super advanced society and culture we pride ourselves on is actually a house of cards totally dependent on people buying stuff that they dont need and borrowing the money to do it! But the fact that most are ignoring is that now the Earth with its finite resources simply cannot sustain more and more people living a Western lifestyle which is destroying all other species and poisoning and polluting this precious Earth; our only home. With stunning selfishness, arrogance and shortsightedness we think it is all about us and that everything can be solved by money and economics! It is also the total opposite of what the Buddha taught!

13 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

fact that most are ignoring is that now the Earth with its finite resources simply cannot sustain more and more people living a Western lifestyle

Not sure I agree with that bit. Nothing has run out, although there have been many scare stories about food and oil running out in the past.

38 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not sure I agree with that bit. Nothing has run out, although there have been many scare stories about food and oil running out in the past.

Nothing has run out, no. However, the Second Law of Thermodynamics is starting to bite us on the bum.

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Best I can do is the average monthly income, THB 14,075 but higher in Bangkok at 25,500. https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/wages - https://checkinprice.com/average-minimum-salary-in-bangkok-thailand/

Average (mean) doesn’t really say much when you have extreme outliers.  

 

If 10 people are in a room and each makes ฿10,000, the average and median are both ฿10,000.  If a corporate CEO walks in, the median is still ฿10,000 but the average (mean) will be much, much higher.

When you start comparing countries its like comparing Apples and Oranges, however there is always a light at the end of the tunnel, come and live in Oz for high cost of living, what's the light at the end of the tunnel, only 1.3 million Chinese visited Oz this year  

3 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Average (mean) doesn’t really say much when you have extreme outliers.  

 

If 10 people are in a room and each makes ฿10,000, the average and median are both ฿10,000.  If a corporate CEO walks in, the median is still ฿10,000 but the average (mean) will be much, much higher.

Less than 2% of the population pays taxes through PAYE, that suggests that the ratio of people earning 10k to CEO's is more like 100,000:1 which doesn't really change the average much at all!

 

Enough of this, if you have proof or a link to support your argument that the average wage is much lower, post it, otherwise leave it alone because it's getting tiresome and boring.

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Less than 2% of the population pays taxes through PAYE, that suggests that the ratio of people earning 10k to CEO's is more like 100,000:1 which doesn't really change the average much at all!

 

Enough of this, if you have proof or a link to support your argument that the average wage is much lower, post it, otherwise leave it alone because it's getting tiresome and boring.

You are the one trying to prove a point using insufficient data.  My argument isn’t about the average income...in fact, I don’t even have an argument regarding average income.  I’m just stating that you are making a fool of yourself trying to prove whatever point it is with the limited data available to you.

 

If I were to use your “statistics”, grabbed out of thin air, (100,000:1 workers making ฿10,000 to CEOs) your argument shows that believe that there are only approximately 100 CEOs in Bangkok and everybody else is working for minimum wage.

Good bye!

On 11/3/2018 at 6:40 AM, BritManToo said:

 

So is this to indicate that somewhere in Issan there are places at a monthly. rental of 1400 baht?

 

What condition are they in? How far from any sort of supermarket, hospital, caff, bar, garage, local shops? Where do people work? Low rents may mean low rent neighbours, rowdiness, petty crime etc.

How far from the nearest town with a population upwards of say 80,000?

Quoting a price is far from the full story.

 

Someone else here rents out a small room in Bangkok for 2,000 a month. Same arguments apply but souunds worth a look to me. Not that I am thinking of amove to BKK or Issaan.

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by rott