RTP Shakedown - Who's to Blame?

[joecoolfrog]

4 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Your friend was outraged that he had been stopped?  Why?  You said that it was a checkpoint, what would you and he expect?  His licence was ok, so he had no problem, the problem was an incorrect documentation problem with the brown book, that was real, not a shakedown.

 

Why was your wife embarrassed at "the treatment your friend received"?  What "treatment"?  Nothing you describe suggests that he was treated anything but courteously. What will he have to complain to TAT about?

 

Maybe your wife was embarrassed because she displayed her own corrupt actions and mindset by bribing a RTP officer.

Did you miss the fact that officer requested a bribe in the first place ?

Is it so difficult to believe that she was embarassed because a guest to her country was confronted with blatant corruption.

It may be endemic in Thailand , it may be accepted by most Thais ( and you ) but its nothing to be proud of , why wouldn't she feel ashamed ?

I know that in your eyes Thailand is a utopia , and all problems start and end with 'foreigners', but blaming the person who had a bribe demanded of him, is surely you sinking to a new low.

[Gillyflower]

I can't understand why your friend was upset.  His driving ability wasn't in question.  It was you, not having filled in the brown book.  He's making a bit of a fuss, especially for 300.

[flexomike]

9 hours ago, Spidey said:

Well established rental company in Pattaya, run by a Brit. Have used it several times before with no problems and gets good reviews.

Just for future reference if you ever drive a red plate vehicle out of the Provence where it is registered you have to log into that book,  there are also restrictions on night driving anywhere,  

[Happy Grumpy]

 

Nissan Navala. 

 

????

[seancbk]

51 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Did you miss the fact that officer requested a bribe in the first place ?

Is it so difficult to believe that she was embarassed because a guest to her country was confronted with blatant corruption.

It may be endemic in Thailand , it may be accepted by most Thais ( and you ) but its nothing to be proud of , why wouldn't she feel ashamed ?

I know that in your eyes Thailand is a utopia , and all problems start and end with 'foreigners', but blaming the person who had a bribe demanded of him, is surely you sinking to a new low.

 

Did you miss the fact there was a problem with the documents and there was a fine of 1000 THB ?  

It was the OP's wife who caused a fuss, lied about having no money to pay a fine, then negotiated to pay the Policeman a bribe (so they did have at least 300 baht between them).  

Why not just pay the 1000 THB, get a proper receipt and be on your way.  If stopped later you can show the receipt and you won't have to pay again.   

They didn't get a receipt because no official fine was paid.  The 'blatant corruption' was initiated by the OP, his wife and the friend driving not simply paying a legitimate fine.

Thailand is hardly a Utopia, although Bangkok is pretty good.  
 

Edited November 18, 2018 by seancbk
Small typing error.

[Spidey]

48 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Nissan Navala. 

 

????

The tears have clouded your vision! X-Trail. (Still a crap car though).

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Poor Baby. Tell your 'Friend' to grow a pair.

When in a Foreign country tell him that it is wise to learn the local laws if he wants to avoid such shattering blows to his manhood.

And he will not ride in a car or truck unless he is driving ? Sounds like he thinks his driving is beyond reproach. Highly unlikely. I have 10 years on him and I learn something new every time I hit the road.

 

I'll let you call him a baby, never met anyone else who had the balls to do that. Mind you I suppose it's easy from behind a keyboard. Also, I said that he would never get in a car with me driving. Other people he doesn't have a problem with.

 

To be honest his driving is pretty much beyond reproach. HGV class 1. Has raced motorcycles, yea, pretty good.

[canthai55]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

 HGV class 1. Has raced motorcycles, yea, pretty good.

Got mine 1974.

Did that too

[Spidey]

Just now, canthai55 said:

Got mine 1974.

Did that too

What do you want, a medal?

[cnx355]

12 hours ago, Spidey said:

I was told nothing about the book when I hired the car. I don't have a ticket but the company will be reimbursing me. Taking the car back today, will update this thread with the result.

I experienced the red plates and brown book in the past.   If you drive in another province you have to fill the log in the brown book. Just departure time and place and arrival place and time. Not really difficult, The cop was correct but the fine seem to be a bit high at 1000 B. And no driving at night.

The  rental place should have told you but normally red plated car are not to be used commercially, They have to wait the regular plate. I think usually not much enforcement on all those rules.

[LeoTex]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

As for my friend, I agree with you. He isn't as versed in Thai ways as we are. Plus the fact that he has been driving for well over 40 years and has a spotless driving record. The only 2 times he has been stopped by police are here in Thailand. Takes it as a personal affront to have his driving ability questioned.

Stopped by the police, having his driving ability questioned????????

 

You're telling us that we don't know the ways in Thailand. Getting checked at checkpoint or roadblock is not being stopped by the police. Also it has nothing to do with his driving ability questioned. Did they put up the check point when they thought he wasn't driving properly. Give us all a break.

 

With your vast experience in the Thai ways, why would you even think about taking a car with 'red plates' on a road trip?

 

I'm no way an expert, like you are on the all rules of the road in Thailand. I come to Pattaya 4 to 5 times a year and I rent a car each trip to drive around the country. I also rent my car from a Brit in Pattaya who also rents motor bikes and also has a good reputation for running his business. I'm sure its not the same person you rent from because my guy has everything in order. I know this because I also drive thru Kabin Buri each trip on my way to Sa Kaeo. I average about 3 stops each way by checkpoints or roadblocks. When my papers and license at looked at, I get a nice thank you and wave on. The checkpoint wasn't put up because I was driving bad, Its there at the same spot each and every trip over the past 10 plus years I have been renting a car and driving over near the Cambodia Border.

 

LeoTex

[Sydebolle]

The red plate is a temporary registration, initially to be used to transfer cars from manufacturer to garage or between garages. The tax on red plated cars has not been paid yet by the seller of the vehicle. Thais just love red plates as it communicates a new car. 

It is, by law, prohibited to leave the province of the red plate, there is a brown registration book into which each and every trip must be noted (from/to/date, engine- & chassis number etc.) as the plate can be moved anytime between any car. You're also not allowed to use them at night. 

A car rental using red plates is not professional as you cannot 1st class insure such cars. The fault though is with the rental company which should put a car into circulation only once the white plates are made available by the DLT. 

In your case take the fine back to the rental and deduct it from what you owe them. Next time get an official fee with an official receipt; the crooked policeman will not like it and the fine will be THB 400 (that's official) and not funny farang pricing of THB 1'000. 

[Happy Grumpy]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

The tears have clouded your vision! X-Trail.

Look on the left page. 

[joecoolfrog]

14 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

Did you miss the fact there was a problem with the documents and there was a fine of 1000 THB ?  

It was the OP's wife who caused a fuss, lied about having no money to pay a fine, then negotiated to pay the Policeman a bribe (so they did have at least 300 baht between them).  

Why not just pay the 1000 THB, get a proper receipt and be on your way.  If stopped later you can show the receipt and you won't have to pay again.   

They didn't get a receipt because no official fine was paid.  The 'blatant corruption' was initiated by the OP, his wife and the friend driving not simply paying a legitimate fine.

Thailand is hardly a Utopia, although Bangkok is pretty good.  
 

Yes the officer clearly wished simply to impose an official fine with a receipt. He had no thoughts whatsoever of pocketing the cash , never crossed his mind , such a thing is unheard of in Thailand....right ?

PS ; The official fine is 400 baht and the officer asked for 1000 , in which case an official receipt would not be possible . Sorry if that spoils your narative but lets face it you knew it was nonsense anyhow.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by joecoolfrog

[Lacessit]

It's the rental company's problem, not yours. That's what your wife should have told the policeman.

You paid 200 baht for the convenience of not having to sit around for hours while your wife or the policeman phoned the rental company to sort out the problem. IMHO fairly cheap.

Good luck with getting the 200 baht back from the rental company with no receipt.

If 200 baht is going to spoil the whole trip, it's a bit precious.

[jackdd]

22 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

And yes, the whole red-plate/week long wait for proper plates is another Thai "joke".

Here in Udon it took the DLT about 30 minutes to register a new vehicle (and handing over white plates), i was there with the salesman and saw it in person. The week long wait is caused by the shops. That's one of a few points where you can't blame Thai government

Edited November 19, 2018 by jackdd

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

The week long wait is caused by the shops.

A government that serves the name would not allow dealers to do such abuse.

No car should leave the yard, no money change hands without proper registration.

Enforce it and problem solved.

 

Reverse story: in Germany no car can be handed over to customer without registration.
Customer won't pay without registration.

Very restrictive use of temporary plates.

Little problem: some transport offices were so cut back in staff that it took weeks to get the registration even for dealers

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[Spidey]

22 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

Did you miss the fact there was a problem with the documents and there was a fine of 1000 THB ?  

It was the OP's wife who caused a fuss, lied about having no money to pay a fine, then negotiated to pay the Policeman a bribe (so they did have at least 300 baht between them).  

Why not just pay the 1000 THB, get a proper receipt and be on your way.  If stopped later you can show the receipt and you won't have to pay again.   

They didn't get a receipt because no official fine was paid.  The 'blatant corruption' was initiated by the OP, his wife and the friend driving not simply paying a legitimate fine.

Thailand is hardly a Utopia, although Bangkok is pretty good.  
 

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Standard fine for that offence is 400 baht. Whatever we agreed to pay, would have gone into his back pocket and no ticket would have been issued. The blatant corruption was initiated by the cop. We just negotiated what level of corruption we were willing to pay. The norm here, always works for me. Stopped for a few minutes and on our way. Not a problem.

 

I have been stopped several times by RTP and many times by UK police. Give me RTP any day of the week. More courteous, pleasant and much, much cheaper!

 

For my friend, corruption by the authorities isn't part of his world, in the UK, he finds it totally unacceptable. He has now changed his return flight and is leaving Thailand a week earlier. I doubt that he will return. I suspect that many tourists would, and do, feel the same way as him. Thailand's loss.

 

As an update, I returned to the rental company again today and was reimbursed with my 1K baht (shhh…).

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Standard fine for that offence is 400 baht. Whatever we agreed to pay, would have gone into his back pocket and no ticket would have been issued. The blatant corruption was initiated by the cop. We just negotiated what level of corruption we were willing to pay. The norm here, always works for me. Stopped for a few minutes and on our way. Not a problem.

 

I have been stopped several times by RTP and many times by UK police. Give me RTP any day of the week. More courteous, pleasant and much, much cheaper!

 

For my friend, corruption by the authorities isn't part of his world, in the UK, he finds it totally unacceptable. He has now changed his return flight and is leaving Thailand a week earlier. I doubt that he will return. I suspect that many tourists would, and do, feel the same way as him. Thailand's loss.

 

As an update, I returned to the rental company again today and was reimbursed with my 1K baht (shhh…).

Excuse me? You complain about blatant police corruption, then stiff the rental company for 1000 baht after paying a bribe of 200 baht? Who jumped up and down on your moral compass?

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Excuse me? You complain about blatant police corruption, then stiff the rental company for 1000 baht after paying a bribe of 200 baht? Who jumped up and down on your moral compass?

Err, excuse me, if you read my posts again you will find that I have always applauded police corruption, never complained about it. You are confusing me with my friend, a casual tourist to Thailand.

 

I didn't stiff the rental company, they stiffed me by renting me a red plate car without informing me of the need to fill in the brown book if I went outside the province or informing me that I couldn't drive the car in the hours of darkness. You exaggerate my gain, if you read my OP, you will see that I paid 300 baht, making my compensation for pain and suffering less than you paint it.

 

Your moral compass is clearly stuck on "holier than thou", a dangerous place to be in the wild and wonderful land in which I live, Thailand. The corruption, prostitution, poverty driving people to do things that they wouldn't do in the West, all add to the rich palette of colours that make up my beautiful adopted home, Thailand.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Err, excuse me, if you read my posts again you will find that I have always applauded police corruption, never complained about it. You are confusing me with my friend, a casual tourist to Thailand.

 

I didn't stiff the rental company, they stiffed me by renting me a red plate car without informing me of the need to fill in the brown book if I went outside the province or informing me that I couldn't drive the car in the hours of darkness. You exaggerate my gain, if you read my OP, you will see that I paid 300 baht, making my compensation for pain and suffering less than you paint it.

 

Your moral compass is clearly stuck on "holier than thou", a dangerous place to be in the wild and wonderful land in which I live, Thailand. The corruption, prostitution, poverty driving people to do things that they wouldn't do in the West, all add to the rich palette of colours that make up my beautiful adopted home, Thailand.

Compensation for pain and suffering? 20 minutes and 300 baht taken from your life? Toughen up, princess. The rental company didn't stiff you. You didn't follow up on detail.

Farangs like you give more honest farangs a bad name with Thais. Thanks a lot.

[Spidey]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Compensation for pain and suffering? 20 minutes and 300 baht taken from your life? Toughen up, princess. The rental company didn't stiff you. You didn't follow up on detail.

Farangs like you give more honest farangs a bad name with Thais. Thanks a lot.

Didn't follow up on detail? I didn't know the car had red plates until I picked it up. I trusted the car hire company, who I'd used several times before, for "detail".

 

Giving honest farangs a bad name with Thais? Have you read none of my OP or was it too difficult for you to understand. The car hire company is owned and run by farangs! 555.

 

I think that you should "toughen up princess" (what a sad pathetic little phrase) and take your holier than though attitude elsewhere.

[Lacessit]

Just now, Spidey said:

Didn't follow up on detail? I didn't know the car had red plates until I picked it up. I trusted the car hire company, who I'd used several times before, for "detail".

 

Giving honest farangs a bad name with Thais? Have you read none of my OP or was it too difficult for you to understand. The car hire company is owned and run by farangs! 555.

 

I think that you should "toughen up princess" (what a sad pathetic little phrase) and take your holier than though attitude elsewhere.

Oh, so it's OK to stiff farangs as well. I know who is sad and pathetic. I'm looking forward to the mods closing a thread started by a loser.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Oh, so it's OK to stiff farangs as well. I know who is sad and pathetic. I'm looking forward to the mods closing a thread started by a loser.

Me? Loser? I'm 700 baht up mate! Hardly a loser! 555

[moose7117]

always amusing to read threads and post by "spidey"

 

it is a great joke you are playing on the other punters, you gave yourself away early in the game because nobody alive could be as self serving and self righteous as you pretend to be.

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, Spidey said:

Me? Loser? I'm 700 baht up mate! Hardly a loser! 555

Being dishonest is akin to being a little bit pregnant. The only difference between you, and people like Madoff and Trump, is the amount you are cheating other people out of.

I've been dudded a few times by people. So when you start a thread, and end up boasting about scamming a company, I find it objectionable.

When I get excess change from a cashier, I give it back. Not holier-than-thou, simply recognition of the fact they may lose their job when the till doesn't balance at the end of the day.

A lawyer once told me money brings out the worst in people. You are living proof of that aphorism. I would like to think the farangs running the rental company read your thread, and connect the dots.

[Spidey]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Being dishonest is akin to being a little bit pregnant. The only difference between you, and people like Madoff and Trump, is the amount you are cheating other people out of.

I've been dudded a few times by people. So when you start a thread, and end up boasting about scamming a company, I find it objectionable.

When I get excess change from a cashier, I give it back. Not holier-than-thou, simply recognition of the fact they may lose their job when the till doesn't balance at the end of the day.

A lawyer once told me money brings out the worst in people. You are living proof of that aphorism. I would like to think the farangs running the rental company read your thread, and connect the dots.

I hope so too. A salutary lesson for them in what happens if they try to scam a customer who isn't as stupid as them.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

I hope so too. A salutary lesson for them in what happens if they try to scam a customer who isn't as stupid as them.

You guys must have a lot of fun stealing oxygen from one another.

[Spidey]

Just now, Lacessit said:

You guys must have a lot of fun stealing oxygen from one another.

Having fun is my raison d'etre. Try it sometime, you might actually like it!

[Lacessit]

27 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Having fun is my raison d'etre. Try it sometime, you might actually like it!

It's possible to have fun without being dishonest. But I get it. Your fun in life is cheating other people, then rationalizing it by saying they cheated me first. That's preferable to admitting you didn't do your homework.