UK PM May's government loses contempt vote over Brexit legal advice

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Brexit was easily deliverable - but the govt. made no attempt to prepare for 'no deal' (wonder why.....), and are looking for leave in name only that won't result in MPs losing their seats.

This deliverable Brexit of yours, you’ve given us your explanation of why the Government has failed to deliver, let’s now hear why the hardline Brexiteers were unable to even deliver their promised plan B.

 

There is zero evidence ‘Brexit was deliverable’.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

This deliverable Brexit of yours, you’ve given us your explanation of why the Government has failed to deliver, let’s now hear why the hardline Brexiteers were unable to even deliver their promised plan B.

 

There is zero evidence ‘Brexit was deliverable’.

"Plan B" is brexit?

 

Sadly the UK govt. had no intention of leaving, and so muddied the waters by coming up with hard/'soft brexit....

 

Made clear by the fact that they made no attempt to prepare for brexit.....

[evadgib]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This deliverable Brexit of yours, you’ve given us your explanation of why the Government has failed to deliver, let’s now hear why the hardline Brexiteers were unable to even deliver their promised plan B.

 

There is zero evidence ‘Brexit was deliverable’.

What plan B?

With hindsight Cameron should have planned to leave the first Monday after 23 June and to have kept his hand firmly on the money tap until EU blinked. Instead we have this fiasco. If UK gets a new PM that would seem as good a place as any in which to resume.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, evadgib said:

What plan B?

Quite. The only plan B is genuine brexit, and the uk govt. have no interest in this as it affects their own, future financial aspirations....

 

Which is why May made no attempt to prepare for brexit - hoping that if she and the govt. left it too late (as they have done) then everyone would be forced into voting remain.....

[dick dasterdly]

Sorry, I'm very bad tempered at politicians and the media efforts  to support remain.....

[billd766]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This deliverable Brexit of yours, you’ve given us your explanation of why the Government has failed to deliver, let’s now hear why the hardline Brexiteers were unable to even deliver their promised plan B.

 

There is zero evidence ‘Brexit was deliverable’.

The answer to that is very simple.

 

The PM Teresa May is and has for a long time a Remainer and IIRC she had the ultimate say at cabinet meetings.

 

If someone from the Leave side had been in charge it may well have been a different story.

 

How many ministers have resigned as they have not been able to get things past the PM and her cabal?

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Sorry, I'm very bad tempered at politicians and the media efforts  to support remain.....

Nothing there to be sorry about.

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

How many ministers have resigned as they have not been able to get things past the PM and her cabal?

Undermining both Brexit secretaries in the process.

[beautifulthailand99]

41 minutes ago, evadgib said:

If I were in your camp I'd refrain from 'Cock-a-doodle-doo'ing until EU had undergone root-and-branch reformation including;

- Auditing of their books for 40 years

- Transparency and accountability at every level 

- Tusk, Barnier & the bloke with the barnet 40 years younger that his head being elected & thrown out by the EU electorate instead of being immune as they are today. Those buggers work for the electorate yet for years have ridden rough-shod over everyone.

I'll take 50 baht to the pound if we can get it - a Corbyn victory (with whom I have some sympathy) will be nearer 35 I fear. What is clear that across Europe and the western world ordinary folk have had enough of the rich getting significantly richer whilst the rest are getting poorer.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I'll take 50 baht to the pound if we can get it - a Corbyn victory (with whom I have some sympathy) will be nearer 35 I fear. What is clear that across Europe and the western world ordinary folk have had enough of the rich getting significantly richer whilst the rest are getting poorer.

I'll take the 50 baht but could never support Corbyn given the company he keeps..

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

It would seem the House of Commons disagrees with you. This is a paragraph from the petition that was signed againgst a second referendum, it came in my email today, if I can find a way to link it to TV I will. It does make interesting reading.

 

"Stop possible second referendum on E.U. membership. There is a growing band of people that want to reverse the result of the democratic vote of this country to leave the European Union and are calling for a second referendum. This is mainly by the people that lost the vote two years ago and cannot accept the democratic vote of the majority decision. Although not legally binding the referendum on whether we stay or leave the EU carried out on the 23rd June 2016 was the clearest indication of the will of the electorate. At that time our Prime Minister David Cameron assured us that the result of the referendum would be carried out. We must ensure the democracy rules”.

I'm more interested in who signed it than the words. You will note the amendment that was passed? Parliament IS sovereign regardless of what anyone says, including you ????

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071

 

The debate was 2 days ago. The "government" agrees that  there will no second referendum. But this 2 days later ????

 

BTW a petition FOR a second referendum has 10x as many signatures.

 

I think you are going to get a cross party government of remainers....

 

Instead of a cross CON party.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Brexit was easily deliverable - but the govt. made no attempt to prepare for 'no deal' (wonder why.....), and are looking for leave in name only that won't result in MPs losing their seats.

Your version of Brexit was deliverable perhaps but not many wanted it and it cost too much. 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Davis is probably our best bet as PM but TBH we (the Country) need a Maggie and I can't see one...anywhere!

Can I just amend that: we (the Conservatives) need a Maggie.

[Grouse]

And another thing

 

We are in NO position to fritter cash away on self harm ideas like Brexit. Everybody agrees this will be expensive

 

Homeless CHILDREN are up 50% in Westminster since last year!

 

SHAMEFUL

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

And another thing

 

We are in NO position to fritter cash away on self harm ideas like Brexit. Everybody agrees this will be expensive

 

Homeless CHILDREN are up 50% in Westminster since last year!

 

SHAMEFUL

I think this is the over-riding argument: a sanity test if you like.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

What plan B?

 

Plan B is Norway+

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Can I just amend that: we (the Conservatives) need a Maggie.

I've not had a Maggie in yonks ????

[tebee]

This is the advice - it's now been released

 

 

 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Plan B is Norway+

I would go with that

 

It gives them their bloody Brexit but protects us against extreme damage.

 

Not at all sure that EFTA would  accept us; I wouldn't 

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Can I just amend that: we (the Conservatives) need a Maggie.

No, It's the Country; as it was in '39.

[evadgib]

<double tap!>

[tebee]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I would go with that

 

It gives them their bloody Brexit but protects us against extreme damage.

 

Not at all sure that EFTA would  accept us; I wouldn't 

I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member.....

 

If we talk about Norway for now they certainly won't.

 

Maybe if we talk about Norway for life...

 

The main problem will be getting derogation from the EFTA customs rules to enable us to make it Norway + rather than plain ol' Norway. 

 

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

This is the advice - it's now been released

 

 

 

Do you only have page 1?

 

I assume Twitter is Brexiter site?

[evadgib]

Here's the Full Monty:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exiting-the-eu-publication-of-legal-advice

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Do you only have page 1?

click on it, it's a link to all the pages - but the gove will presumably publish it somewhere soon

 

[evadgib]

William Hill are offering odds of May being gone by Friday therefore I'm off to watch PMQs ????

[malagateddy]

And another thing
 
We are in NO position to fritter cash away on self harm ideas like Brexit. Everybody agrees this will be expensive
 
Homeless CHILDREN are up 50% in Westminster since last year!
 
SHAMEFUL

Imo..a lot worse than that is the fact that over 5% of homeless/rough sleepers in the UK are former members of H.M.Armed Forces!!!

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[Grouse]

38 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Imo..a lot worse than that is the fact that over 5% of homeless/rough sleepers in the UK are former members of H.M.Armed Forces!!!

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Well that is shameful also

 

But IMHO kids come first

 

Sorry, I'm just old fashioned

[7by7]

 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Plan B is Norway+

I would go with that

 

It gives them their bloody Brexit but protects us against extreme damage.

 

Not at all sure that EFTA would  accept us; I wouldn't 

 

Norway plus seems to be the preferred option of most MPs, and as they have voted for Parliament to have the final say and it seems they don't want May's deal nor no deal, it could be what we end up with. Which, if I have interpreted posts here correctly, is what many Brexiteers prefer.

 

Provided the EU agrees, of course.

 

But we would end up worse off than had we remained in the EU!

 

A Norway, no plus, deal, i.e leaving the EU but remaining in the EEA, means still accepting and abiding by the four freedoms: the free movement of goods, services, capital and people. Which will upset many of those who voted leave in 2016; especially those who voted leave to stop immigration from the EU.

 

It also means we have to continue abiding by EU laws, rules and regulations and rulings of the ECJ. But we will have no say in the making of those laws, and no veto. Which will upset all those who voted leave so we would no longer be governed by Brussels.

 

It also means still paying into the EU coffers each year. How much would need to be negotiated, but Norway currently pays more per head to the EU than we do. This will upset all those who voted leave to stop Brussels taking so much of our money.

 

What about the 'plus' bit, though?

 

The three EEA countries which are not also EU members, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, are not members of the customs union. This means they can do their own deals and set their own tariffs when trading with countries outside the EU and EEA. They obviously prefer this and so do not want full EU membership.

 

The 'plus' bit means that in addition to all of the above, we would remain in the customs union. The reason being that were we not in the customs union we would have to set tariffs on goods from EU members and these goods would have to pass through customs in order to enter the UK and vice versa; which would mean a hard border between all of the UK and all of the EU.

 

Remaining in the customs union would mean no hard border between the UK and EU and so prevent the necessity of a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

 

So Norway plus means we will still

• be bound by the four freedoms,
• be subject to laws made by the EU, but no longer have a say in the making of those laws,
• still be paying into the EU funds, without any say on how the money is spent,
• still have our trade deals and tariffs with the rest of the world set by the EU, but have no say in deciding those deals and tariffs.

Can a Brexiteer who favours Norway plus please explain how this is better than remaining a full EU member?

 

[malagateddy]

Well that is shameful also
 
But IMHO kids come first
 
Sorry, I'm just old fashioned

I ask you this...are these British children..are they with their parents??? or are they non British???
Imo..charity begins at home..you take care of your own first and foremost before anyone else.
Perhaps if Blair and Co had not opened the flood-gates re immigration and also had not got involved in an imo illegal war, things would be a lot better re housing..nhs..etc.??

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