Question for USA Expats concerning Marriage, Taxes and the SSA

[metisdead]

A post using bold font, again, has been removed.  Please turn off the bold font function when posting. 

[Dogberry]

Answering my own question here (well some of them anyway). Here is cut and paste from the current IRS W-7 application and instructions:

 

"First-time ITIN applications. If you’re applying for a new ITIN,
complete and attach Form W-7 to your tax return when you file
the tax return for which the ITIN is needed. If you’re unable to file
your tax return by the due date, you must file an application for
an extension of time to file. Failure to timely file the tax return
with a complete Form W-7 and required documentation may
result in the denial of refundable credits, such as the additional
child tax credit and the American opportunity tax credit, if you
otherwise qualify. Don’t file your tax return without Form W-7."

 

and reiterating: 

 

"atttach Form W-7 to the front of your tax return. If you’re applying
for more than one ITIN for the same tax return (such as for a
spouse or dependent(s)), attach all Forms W-7 to the same tax
return. Leave the area of the SSN blank on the tax return for
each person who is applying for an ITIN. After your Form W-7
has been processed, the IRS will assign an ITIN to the return
and process the return."

Edited December 9, 2018 by Dogberry

[Dogberry]

On 12/7/2018 at 9:00 AM, lopburi3 said:

That was the old system - now you have to file tax and include the ITIN application to obtain

????

[riclag]

On 12/9/2018 at 9:59 AM, Dogberry said:

Answering my own question here (well some of them anyway). Here is cut and paste from the current IRS W-7 application and instructions:

 

"First-time ITIN applications. If you’re applying for a new ITIN,
complete and attach Form W-7 to your tax return when you file
the tax return for which the ITIN is needed. If you’re unable to file
your tax return by the due date, you must file an application for
an extension of time to file. Failure to timely file the tax return
with a complete Form W-7 and required documentation may
result in the denial of refundable credits, such as the additional
child tax credit and the American opportunity tax credit, if you
otherwise qualify. Don’t file your tax return without Form W-7."

 

and reiterating: 

 

"atttach Form W-7 to the front of your tax return. If you’re applying
for more than one ITIN for the same tax return (such as for a
spouse or dependent(s)), attach all Forms W-7 to the same tax
return. Leave the area of the SSN blank on the tax return for
each person who is applying for an ITIN. After your Form W-7
has been processed, the IRS will assign an ITIN to the return
and process the return."

How did you make out? Did you have any discrepancies with filing the paper work(ITN and 1040)? Did you send in her passport to the address on the w7 form?

[GinBoy2]

So, I did this a while back, all pretty seamless. We went to the Embassy where they certified my wife's passport for ITIN purposes

 

I submitted the W-7 with my 1040, TurboTax prompts you to enter her SSN as 999-99-9998, and as I recall, you file your whole 1040 with the W-7 to the Austin Service Center

 

All worked fine. 

 

When my wife got her greencard and SSN, you submit an application to merge her ITIN number with the SSN

Edited September 3, 2019 by GinBoy2

[riclag]

Were you allowed to accompany her in the us embassy? Did you have to get her passport  translated,before hand?

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

Were you allowed to accompany her in the us embassy? Did you have to get her passport  translated,before hand?

It was just a simple copy of her passport which she took into the embassy, the usual place where you go to get any affidavit done.

 

I didn't go in with her, but as my wife grew up in the US, her English is as good as mine so it wasn't an issue.

 

But I don't think you not being with her would be an issue

[riclag]

18 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

It was just a simple copy of her passport which she took into the embassy, the usual place where you go to get any affidavit done.

 

I didn't go in with her, but as my wife grew up in the US, her English is as good as mine so it wasn't an issue.

 

But I don't think you not being with her would be an issue

 When you sent in your 1040,this certified copy was sent in place of her Passport correct?

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, riclag said:

 When you sent in your 1040,this certified copy was sent in place of her Passport correct?

Correct

[riclag]

Thanks for your help.

[Dogberry]

Greetings, sorry for the delay in reporting on my post. I lurk on TV almost daily but do not often log in. Well I'll start by telling you this, I got a refund check from the IRS for nearly $X000. I'd withheld the entire year based on filing as single. So yeah, they accepted my application, my wife has an ITIN and I'm with-holding a MUCH smaller amount which is money in my pocket. Now I flubbed up a bit and didn't send the right documents. So after submitting a certified copy of her passport from the Thai passport office all was well, it just took a heck of a long time. I filed in May (corrected... April) and I just received my refund this month (check mailed to Thailand using US/Thai mail... I feel lucky it actually arrived.

 

Now with ITIN in hand future filings should follow the regular (quicker?) processing. 

 

Anyway best regards, Eric

Edited September 16, 2019 by Dogberry
fix

[riclag]

So Dogberry got a certified copy of his wife's passport from the Thai passport office

 

Ginboy got a certified copy of his wife's passport from the US embassy!

 

 Sounds like the IRS will except either office! I don't want to send her passport to the irs 

[Dogberry]

Yeah, I've been having a side conversation with riclag and thought I'd just bring the original post up to date. We went to whatever the Thai government Office that issues Thai passports in the first place. There she obtained a Thai government stamped, imbossed, official certified copy of her Thai passport. I think it was like maybe 500 baht? Anyway, yeah ITIN issued, with-held taxes returned to me in US Treasury check, so something worked right.

 

What I don't get is if you're going to submit her original passport why in the world would it need to be certified? And by the US Consulate? It's the original document! Now I'm not saying that didn't work but IMHO is unnecessary. 500 baht or 50 bucks - it's up to you.

 

PS: It was like 500 baht for same day service... it went down to something like 200 if we returned at the end of the week... 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Dogberry
fix

[Presnock]

I am retired here (15 years) married to a Thai and we have one child.  We got her a Tax ITIN so that we could file our taxes each year.  Also my retirement will provide for my wife if I die before her so she would eventually need that tax number.  We also get a better tax break by doing this instead of filing single, especially with the new tax laws.  It is in my opinion better to play it safe and legal and don't forget the FBAR report each year too.  It was easy to get the necessary documents/translations needed for my wife and our marriage documentation.

[Dogberry]

I dunno I just got lucky or what. I informed SSA I was married via the annual "are you dead yet" letter. I provided the IRS with NOTHING regarding my marriage other than ticking the box MARRIED FILING JOINTLY.

 

[riclag]

15 minutes ago, Dogberry said:

Yeah, I've been having a side conversation with riclag and thought I'd just bring the original post up to date. We went to whatever the Thai government Office that issues Thai passports in the first place. There she obtained a Thai government stamped, imbossed, official certified copy of her Thai passport. I think it was like maybe 500 baht? Anyway, yeah ITIN issued, with-held taxes returned to me in US Treasury check, so something worked right.

 

What I don't get is if you're going to submit her original passport why in the world would it need to be certified? And by the US Consulate? It's the original document! Now I'm not saying that didn't work but IMHO is unnecessary. 500 baht or 50 bucks - it's up to you.

 

PS: It was like 500 baht for same day service... it went down to something like 200 if we returned at the end of the week... 

 

Well I might be going back to Udon Thaini to have a certified  copy stamped of her Thai passport at the Thai passport office rather than going to Bangkok,U S embassy, from sakon nakhon (hotel ,flight and $50 fee)

Edited September 16, 2019 by riclag

[Dogberry]

40 minutes ago, riclag said:

I don't want to send her passport to the irs 

We could not have sent her original Passport anyway as we had a long planned trip to her step daughters wedding in the states. 

 

[riclag]

16 minutes ago, Dogberry said:

We could not have sent her original Passport anyway as we had a long planned trip to her step daughters wedding in the states. 

 

Exactly I have a similar situation.If I can get away with what you did  I'll just go back to Udon (150k away) and get her passport certified at the Thai passport office . Thanks

 

Any other comments welcome

Edited September 16, 2019 by riclag

[Dogberry]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Well I might be going back to Udon Thaini to have a certified  copy stamped of her Thai passport

I just asked my wife about that and she said you can get a copy at any passport issuing office. Her passport was issued out of BKK but got copy in Chiang Mai... she also verified it was around 500 baht for same day service...

[riclag]

 I have been planning to file for a ITIN number . I just noticed my wives new  Thai passport that we recent got with her new married name  was signed by her but her signature is in Thai.I recently had a certified copy done with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs stamp . 

My question is ,was she suppose to sign her name in in English or is it fine in Thai?

 

[lopburi3]

On 10/16/2019 at 9:33 PM, riclag said:

 I have been planning to file for a ITIN number . I just noticed my wives new  Thai passport that we recent got with her new married name  was signed by her but her signature is in Thai.I recently had a certified copy done with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs stamp . 

My question is ,was she suppose to sign her name in in English or is it fine in Thai?

 

It is a Thai passport and signature is fine in Thai - my wife did the same and ITIN accepted original without any copy.

[Dogberry]

yep just a Thai signature for us...

 

[riclag]

On 10/19/2019 at 1:27 PM, lopburi3 said:

It is a Thai passport and signature is fine in Thai - my wife did the same and ITIN accepted original without any copy.

On the ITIN app must her signature be in English or should it be in Thai the same as her  Thai passport?

Also how about the  US 1040 form can her signature  be in Thai?

Edited November 29, 2019 by riclag

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, riclag said:

On the ITIN app must her signature be in English or should it be in Thai the same as her  Thai passport?

That was a bit over 2 years ago and do not remember but believe application signed in English.

[riclag]

16 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

That was a bit over 2 years ago and do not remember but believe application signed in English.

Hopefully someone else will reply,

thanks

[Berkshire]

On 12/8/2018 at 9:49 AM, Langsuan Man said:

Dependents can be claimed as exemptions only for tax years prior to 2018. • A dependent/spouse of a nonresident alien U.S. visa holder who isn’t eligible for an SSN. See Pub. 519. Dependents and spouses can be claimed as exemptions only for tax years prior to 2018.
Note. The deduction for personal exemptions was suspended for tax years 2018 through 2025. For tax years beginning after 2017, spouses or dependents residing outside of the United States aren’t eligible for an ITIN, unless they qualify for an allowable tax benefit. See Pub. 519 for more information.

So if I understand this correctly, those Americans married to Thais (non US citizens) can no longer claim their wives for an exemption...?  They have to file as single from 2019 onwards?  Sorry if I sound confused because I am.

[lopburi3]

21 hours ago, Berkshire said:

So if I understand this correctly, those Americans married to Thais (non US citizens) can no longer claim their wives for an exemption...?  They have to file as single from 2019 onwards?  Sorry if I sound confused because I am.

Above Pub 519 applies to aliens - not US citizens or their tax matters.  This seems to apply to their spouse - not the spouse of a US Citizen.

Quote

 dependent/spouse of a nonresident alien U.S. visa holder who isn’t eligible for an SSN

 

[Number 6]

I don't file. All my assets are in age protected financial vehicles and I make certain the balance of income is lower than the $ required to file which this year I believe is 9948usd. This will change when I start to pull the funds at 62+.

 

For FBAR I do not list a TIN for my wife. Other than B visa she's not financially connected to US. There is no benefit for her.

 

To get to the point of your post you shouldn't be paying any taxes regardless living overseas. Exempt to over 100k.

 

Your wife will receive no survivor benefits here. Moving to US I think it's five years minimum and then it's a tiny portion of your payout. Not like say when my father dies what my mother will receive. Further and I know this wasn't asked but if you do move to US your wife will have to have ten years gainful employment paying into SS before she can collect.

 

Just keep her out of the tax system what you'd receive is nothing. Not even worth the paperwork. Very curious Lopburis point. Includes GC holders but not foreign wives. Harsh but makes sense. Point is moot. No one should be paying taxes living overseas.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Number 6