Buying a new house with Thai girlfriend

[travelerjim]

Just be prepared to lose all if and when that day comes. Thai company setups are now under severe scrutiny by Thai government.

Do it at your own peril. Suggest you disregard sales pitches...their only interest is making the sale and closing on it.

You can lease the new house for thirty years with your lady friend owning the land. Just be sure its properly done with competent Thai attorney and recorded at the Land Office.

Good luck....you are in good company if many others before you.

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by travelerjim

[wombat]

avoid the hassle and heartache....put it in her name.....dont forget, your girl is different.

 

[cyberfarang]

6 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

This is the kind of information I'm looking for. I had thought of this, but was looking for some confirmation, maybe some details about how the process works. Thanks.

Whatever a Farang places in a Thai girlfriend`s name is considered a gift.

 

Under the name of a company that company has to be trading with proof that the Thai partners are actively participating and not just on paper as names only. I wouldn`t even consider it. Good luck.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

My girlfriend wants to make sure that I have some legal rights with respect to everything. What can or do I need to do?

Get your gf to take out a home loan for 2.5M over 30 years.

You pay the deposit (300k) and the repayments (16k/month).

 

Then if anything goes wrong, you no longer need to make any repayments.

Edited December 15, 2018 by BritManToo

[Spidey]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Get your gf to take out a home loan for 2.5M over 30 years.

You pay the deposit and the repayments.

 

Then if anything goes wrong, you no longer need to make any repayments.

Now that sounds like a plan!

[Tbone999]

Check out this site for usufructs and others, good info. Doesn't want to load right now, but maybe check again tomorrow. Thai law for foreigners in Thailand

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

I bought a house in Pattaya a few months ago. Had to complete in a real hurry. The previous owner had a 30 year usufruct but my lawyer (tosser) told me that they had ceased the practice 12 months earlier. I suspect that he said this to push me down the company route but I refused. Wondering if I can backfit the usufruct?

Usufruct is still alive and well, my Thai son put it on a piece of land just 4 months back, in CM. All clearly recorded on the original chanut. 

 

 

[allanos]

The word "usufruct" seems to confuse a number of people.

 

Simply put, one enjoys the "fruits" of "usage" - usu (use) + fruct (fruit)

[AlexRich]

I don't believe there are water-tight legal constructs in Thailand that give you 100% security, other than a foreign owned condo, and that strikes me as a poor investment at the best of times. If the amount that you are laying out is insignificant in relation to your net worth then by all means go ahead, but if it is a large chunk of your wealth I'd advise renting and giving yourself maximum flexibility.

[AlexRich]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Get your gf to take out a home loan for 2.5M over 30 years.

You pay the deposit (300k) and the repayments (16k/month).

 

Then if anything goes wrong, you no longer need to make any repayments.

 

Banks tend to loan to high earners. If his girlfriend does not earn much no Bank will loan to her without a guarantor ... and that will be the farang.

[USNret]

4 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

Your impression is wrong.  It is called diluting shares so you insure that NO ONE PERSON has 50%.  The normal dilution would be four shareholders with 3 having 17% and you having 49%, thus insuring that you have a majority of voting shares and are made Chairman 

 

  

Your math is, shall we say, fuzzy.  49% is not a majority.  How many times on this forum have we seen someone doing this very scheme, or a long lease, or any other circumvention of the foreign owner exclusion only to find it all vanish in a puff of smoke.  Often through fraud (i.e., falsification of signatures); sometimes through some legal maneuvering by the other side; whether the notary, the wife/gf, the lawyer, the registrar, the judge, and/or the police are all in cahoots.  In every case, the farang is the loser and despite his airtight claims to the property, he loses everything without recourse.  We have seen this at least 20 times, and I don't troll these hallowed halls that often.  It's probably 100's of times.

The short answer -- set up your corporation or lease, hire your lawyer, buy the property, the "investment" & the gf will be gone within a few years, if not sooner. 

[jvs]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Get your gf to take out a home loan for 2.5M over 30 years.

You pay the deposit (300k) and the repayments (16k/month).

 

Then if anything goes wrong, you no longer need to make any repayments.

I was going to ost the same thing,it is the only way to go!!!

Of course there are different ways to view it but it makes a lot of sense!!

Getting the house in your name and the land in the gf.name is not reall smart,you have to cross her land to get into your house!!Remember if everything goes right it is great,if something goes wrong it is a disaster!!

[xylophone]

35 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

You get a lawyer or an accountant to prepare some basic easy documents and take them to the Thai companies office (can actually be done on line) to register a Thai company.

 

NOTE: Some Thai and foreign lawyers will try to tell you it's required by Thai law to have a lawyer set it up. That's totally not true. Also lawyers will try to charge totally outrageous beyond belief fees for what's quite easy to do and doesn't need all that much time.

 

Many accountants and other business agencies do this set up, they are well capable and mostly at reasonable fees.

 

The basic scenario is:

 

- A group of Thai nationals (about 4 or 5 but that can change a bit) are recorded as together owning 51% or more of the shares in the company.

- The foreigner or a group of foreigners are recorded as owning 49% of the shares (the foreigner(s) cannot own more than 49 % of the shares).

 

Upon registration it is recorded in the company official records (this is called the articles of association of the company) that:

 

- The company only has one director

- The director is the only person who can sign any document / transact any business whatever for the company.

- It's also recorded at the same time that

- You are appointed as the director, or

- In some cases that's not possible at registration but it can be changed to you 1 year later or similar.

 

All of the above means that you don't have a controlling ownership picture but you do have control of the company finances, activities etc.

 

There are also requirements about capital at the start of the business, other TV members are more up to date on this point.

 

Once the above is all set up the land and house, or land only or house only can be recorded at the lands title office as being owned by the company.

 

The company must submit an annual company report to the Thai companies office and must also submit audited accounting records annually.

 

And yes several times in the last 10 years there has been mention of the government cracking down on these 'shell' companies, having then disbanded, stopping their initial set up etc., but it's a very floppy picture. 

 

And totally against Thai law..............as I said in another post, "forming a company whose sole purpose is to own property/land is illegal" no matter how you try to work around it.............so stay away from this avenue at all costs.

[Thailand]

She can own and you take a 30 year extendable lease. I believe you can sell, transfer bequeath etc your interest.

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Banks tend to loan to high earners. If his girlfriend does not earn much no Bank will loan to her without a guarantor ... and that will be the farang.

 

That isn't usually a problem, the builders will arrange everything.

Edited December 15, 2018 by BritManToo

[Banana7]

7 minutes ago, Thailand said:

She can own and you take a 30 year extendable lease. I believe you can sell, transfer bequeath etc your interest.

I like this approach. Make sure you are the sole leasee and get a receipt showing full payment has been received by her for all 30 years, on the same day as the property is purchased. Also, ensure the lease is "transferable" at your sole option, without her consent and that the lease is extendable by another 30 years, at your sole option, at the same conditions and payment rate as the original lease. Lease must be registered in the Land Office, and get a copy of such registration. Finally, the lease does not die upon your death, and is automatically transferred to your heirs, according to your Thai Will.

[Delight]

 You are better off if you marry your girlfriend. Buy the property post marriage-in her name. Then organise an usufruct if possible. (I am not familiar about the rules -usufruct and spouse-see a lawyer)

In the event of a divorce ,and with a good lawyer, you will be able to prove that the money was yours prior to the marriage.

Thai divorce laws state that In the event of a divorce then each party retains their assets which they had prior to marriage. In your case it was your money prior to the marriage.

Essential that you keep an audit trail of the money coming into Thailand and the money going out to purchase the property.

This assumes that both are in  the same  period of time-roughly.

If  a divorce occurred and you were awarded the house -you will have 12 months to sell it.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Delight

[nickmondo]

i know you just want technical info........but seriously mate.........

ARE YOU INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST RENT FOR A FEW YEARS WITH THIS WONDERFUL GIRL

THEN YOU WILL HAVE A MUCH BETTER PICTURE

do yourself a favour mate.

ALSO, if your going to buy, get a Condo mate, get something in your name only.

YOU DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO ADVICE, THATS UP TO YOU.

[captpkapoor]

Why don't you just buy a condo instead, put it in your name, no hassle, nothing to worry about forming companies and shareholders. Sell when you want. And no problems with maintenance, leakage/ seepage, security, nada. Use all of the facilities like pool gym tennis w/out paying for more memberships. 

[spetersen]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Do as many foreigners are doing when it comes to buying a house/land, set up a company where by you have equal shares and said company owns the property, you'll a lawyer to help you with all the formalities, if you're in Pattaya i can recommend you such person...

It's illegal to own a house in a company name if you don't run a business from the house, and you can only own 49% of the company and you need 2 Thai's for  51% of the ownership. F.Y.I The authorities have started to crack down on this type arrangement in Bangkok, so the question is when will this be enforced in the rest of the country.

[NCC1701A]

is it too late to change the title of this topic to "Buying a new house for my Thai girlfriend"?

Edited December 15, 2018 by NCC1701A

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Well you have been given some good advice apart from the chicanery around company shareholdings, but this is Thai law, "forming a company whose sole purpose is to own property/land is illegal" no matter how you try to work around it.

 

A good point was made inasmuch as your Thai partner can buy/own the land whilst you can own the house, but the funds to buy that land should come from her.

 

I am not au fait with usufructs/superficies etc and folks on here who have knowledge and experience with these may be able to help, but not sure how many Thai lawyers will have the requisite knowledge either, so hunt around and please don't be pushed into the "company route" esp if the "company" has no other purpose than property/land ownership..........losing everything or the potential to do so is not a burden to be carried lightly.

This makes the company route a non-starter for me. I have no issues with doing everything legally; in fact, I prefer it.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

The OP sounds a little green around the horns, but at least he is trying to inform himself of the possibilities, procedures and ramifications of his proposal; plenty have trodden this path and been burned over the years, and these pages are littered with opinions good, indifferent and appalling. 

For what it's worth, and for someone in his position, my opinion would be to give it time, rent in the interim, let the relationship mature, and resist any pressure which may be coming from the distaff side to get the purchase completed; the bottom line is, if the bond holds over time, it may be worth buying and the OP usufructing the property to give himself some security - but never be rushed, by a Thai least of all.

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, bubba45 said:

 

What Is Usufructs?

A usufruct, in Thai language, called "Sidhi-kep-kin", provides temporary ownership rights for use and enjoyment of the property along with an advantage of being able to reap the profits from property belonging to another as long as the property is not damaged or altered in any way.

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

This is exactly what I need! Many thanks. I'm 65, so I'd be shocked (pissed off, too) if I make it another 30 years. I thought about splitting the deal into land and house, but didn't realize that it was possible when it's being sold as a single entity. That would be the best way to do it. I need to check further on the details of this. Many thanks.

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Get your gf to take out a home loan for 2.5M over 30 years.

You pay the deposit (300k) and the repayments (16k/month).

 

Then if anything goes wrong, you no longer need to make any repayments.

Sorry, but that`s bad advice.

 

A bank will not give anyone a loan unless the applicant can prove he/she has the earnings or collateral to pay back the installments and if the OP gives his GF a loan, goes to a lawyer and draws up a legal agreement, considering the GF owns the land and property by means of a loan, legally she can bar the OP from entering the property because it`s her`s by right unless the loan payments are defaulted.

 

Being in debt is a civil, not a criminal offence. Can`t get blood out of a stone. If the loan stops being paid and the relationship turns sour, under the Thai civil law system it can take years to have a someone evicted from a property and even if they lose the case can still appeal that can take more years.

 

A usufruct for Farangs is not worth the paper it`s printed on. Even if taking one out or a lease for a million years, under Thai law Farangs are only in Thailand for a year, because that`s the period of visa extension.

 

As I said; good luck.

 

 

 

[johng]

I think cyberfarang has maybe "got hold of the wrong end of the stick"

If the girlfriend gets a mortgage and the boyfriend pays the installments then she has incentive to keep boyfriend happy...if she doesn't and boyfriend stops paying then he just walks away with no thought of recovering money already paid out.

 

 

[scorecard]

21 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

The OP sounds a little green around the horns, but at least he is trying to inform himself of the possibilities, procedures and ramifications of his proposal; plenty have trodden this path and been burned over the years, and these pages are littered with opinions good, indifferent and appalling. 

For what it's worth, and for someone in his position, my opinion would be to give it time, rent in the interim, let the relationship mature, and resist any pressure which may be coming from the distaff side to get the purchase completed; the bottom line is, if the bond holds over time, it may be worth buying and the OP usufructing the property to give himself some security - but never be rushed, by a Thai least of all.

 

... let the relationship mature ...

 

The OP hasn't mentioned any detail about this subject and it's private business anyway.

Maybe they already have a long-term solid relationship.

 

[GalaxyMan]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

The OP hasn't mentioned any detail about this subject and it's private business anyway. Maybe they already have a long-term solid relationship.

Finally an intelligent & correct post on an issue that I specifically said this topic wasn't about. Clearly some people have reading comprehension issues...

 

I do appreciate the many constructive, on-topic posts. I now know what I need to do.

Edited December 15, 2018 by GalaxyMan

[cyberfarang]

5 minutes ago, johng said:

I think cyberfarang has maybe "got hold of the wrong end of the stick"

If the girlfriend gets a mortgage and the boyfriend pays the installments then she has incentive to keep boyfriend happy...if she doesn't and boyfriend stops paying then he just walks away with no thought of recovering money already paid out.

 

 

3

I understand fully.

 

Judging by the majority of Farang/Thai relationships in Thailand, whereas the Farang buys and pays for everything, there are no ways the Thai girlfriend would want to give her Farang boyfriend any legal rights to the land and property if it was being purchased with the majority or all of her money, and I also very much doubt she would want to commit herself into over 20 years of debt in ways of a loan, that`s IF she would even be eligible for such a large loan.

 

If the OP`s Thai girlfriend is the one in a million gem and paying for this herself, either by loan or by lump sum, then I doubt the OP would have any concerns and would not be asking.

 

 

 

 

[GalaxyMan]

1 minute ago, cyberfarang said:

If the OP`s Thai girlfriend is the one in a million gem and paying for this herself, either by loan or by lump sum, then I doubt the OP would have any concerns and would not be asking.

Exactly! As in my original post, WE are buying the house. She is a very well-paid professional and has no problem getting total financing. She is concerned about protecting my share because she is aware of the way Thailand protects itself from foreign real estate domination.