USA income affidavit BKK Dec 20 2018

[DJ54]

I will keep it short for that fella that got irradiated excuse to much good info was given instead of short and quick with no content. Once you slip up it’s like the person you pay for a few beers now and then and it goes on and on.

 

Although their were four (if everyone prepared prior) three lines you need to process through. 1- Get in building

2- Form checked 3- 2 lines= Cash or Credit 4 - Acknowledge by oath true gets notarized and your on the way.

 

All windows in Citizen section had notaries. Cash at table and credit card two separate lines. Took maybe 30 minutes

 

One of the staff was asked why so many people. She said all Dec. appointments were booked way in advance 

which let no appointments for December were open. It was decided a lot of people will not able to get notarized 

And possibly cause some visa renewal issues. They opened Dec.20 initially 400 appointments and end with 550.

 

That was very thoughtful and shows they do care...

[Robins]

Politely no, thoughtful would be reaching some agreement with Thai Immigration to at least examine pension statements and American bank account statements and certify that they at least appear to be in order and are reasonable for the person presenting them. 

I always took pension 1099 firms, bank statements and my last tax return when getting an income verification and they had no interest in seeing them. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for perjury for lying on an affidavit? Of course the Thais got sick of this nonsense. Asking Thai Immigration to examine these documents would be like asking an American to examine Thai documents, absolutely pointless.

Frankly the Embassy just don't give a damn and this small effort is a show.

[lopburi3]

I got back about 30 minutes ago (two hours taxi from Latphao on lovely Bangkok roads going - only 30 minutes different route for return).  They took over the Thai Visa Issuing section and must have had every consular officer at the windows.  After normal security you started line at normal entry path to ACS room - form quick checked and asked what services required - on to desk area with 3 people checking closely - on to cashier for CC or table for baht - on to entry to visa windows - proceed to next free window and take care of issue.  Very well organized (although suspect I missed the morning rush as had a 1330 original appointment).   

 

I arrived at 1305 and departed about 1325.  It really seemed Thai workers appreciated being able to interact without the normal glass partition.  Visa unit obviously was not doing interviews today.  

[phkauf]

Had the same experience this morning in at 10 out at 10:20. Super efficient and well organized. Everyone could not have been more pleasant.

They also handed out a notice explaining that they only provide verification of the person signing the affidavit and Thailand has accepted that as honest. I understand their position of not wanting to get into the income verification business. It is so easy to create false financial statements nowadays, there is no way for the Embassy to be able to verify anything without going back to the original source in the US. This is very costly and would be a full time job for a number of people. 

So just suck it up buttercup and deal with the new rules. Ain't that hard. And if it is, there's always Cambodia for you. Jeez and I though millennials were the biggest bunch of crybaby snowflakes. 

[ocddave]

12 minutes ago, phkauf said:

It is so easy to create false financial statements nowadays, there is no way for the Embassy to be able to verify anything without going back to the original source in the US. This is very costly and would be a full time job for a number of people. 

The only way I could see that working would be the same way I had to verify my marriage certificate from the US, which is extremely time consuming and costly. Obviously you have to have the document notarized in the US, then the Secretary of State from the US State has to verify the local notary, then you have to send that to the US Federal Secretary of State to verify the Local State Secretary, then to the Thai Embassy to verify the US Secretary of State, then finally bring that document to Thailand and have the Thai MFA certify the Thai Embassy verification. Let me tell you, that took forever, but thats pretty much the only way you are ever going to "definitively prove" any US Income document to Thai officials. Yes, you can say someone might accept whatever document you give them, but really, how the heck can anyone prove it "definitively"?

[JerseytoBKK]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

I got back about 30 minutes ago (two hours taxi from Latphao on lovely Bangkok roads going - only 30 minutes different route for return).  They took over the Thai Visa Issuing section and must have had every consular officer at the windows.  After normal security you started line at normal entry path to ACS room - form quick checked and asked what services required - on to desk area with 3 people checking closely - on to cashier for CC or table for baht - on to entry to visa windows - proceed to next free window and take care of issue.  Very well organized (although suspect I missed the morning rush as had a 1330 original appointment).   

 

I arrived at 1305 and departed about 1325.  It really seemed Thai workers appreciated being able to interact without the normal glass partition.  Visa unit obviously was not doing interviews today.  

Wow, I'm impressed. Went there last week (9:45 appt) and it was standard operating procedure. Meaning ACS check-in at one window, go to pay at the far window (same window for cash or credit), then wait about 30 min to get called for the cert. Total time from walking up to the embassy to leaving about 45 min.

[Robins]

3 hours ago, ocddave said:

The only way I could see that working would be the same way I had to verify my marriage certificate from the US, which is extremely time consuming and costly. Obviously you have to have the document notarized in the US, then the Secretary of State from the US State has to verify the local notary, then you have to send that to the US Federal Secretary of State to verify the Local State Secretary, then to the Thai Embassy to verify the US Secretary of State, then finally bring that document to Thailand and have the Thai MFA certify the Thai Embassy verification. Let me tell you, that took forever, but thats pretty much the only way you are ever going to "definitively prove" any US Income document to Thai officials. Yes, you can say someone might accept whatever document you give them, but really, how the heck can anyone prove it "definitively"?

The embassy staff could stand you in front of a PC and watch every keystroke while you log into your home country bank account and the source of your pension and examine the contents of each with your permission to see that they match the documents you're submitting.  Pretty hard to fake that.  Might take 10 whole minutes or so, and they could even charge a ridiculous price for it if they wanted.  Sad for guys who have been here many years to suddenly have to leave.  If they cared they would find a solution as easily as I just did. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Robins

[DJ54]

11 hours ago, Robins said:

Politely no, thoughtful would be reaching some agreement with Thai Immigration to at least examine pension statements and American bank account statements and certify that they at least appear to be in order and are reasonable for the person presenting them. 

I always took pension 1099 firms, bank statements and my last tax return when getting an income verification and they had no interest in seeing them. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for perjury for lying on an affidavit? Of course the Thais got sick of this nonsense. Asking Thai Immigration to examine these documents would be like asking an American to examine Thai documents, absolutely pointless.

Frankly the Embassy just don't give a damn and this small effort is a show.

I agree with on most points the first time I went had a stack of papers not knowing what they needed. This time passport and iD

filled out form they had available.

 

Let’s hope there’s a greater plan in the works for the people

who are genuine long / permanent stays. 

 

They tired amd helped as much as they could today with is 

probably minimal information 

[wwest5829]

16 hours ago, Robins said:

Politely no, thoughtful would be reaching some agreement with Thai Immigration to at least examine pension statements and American bank account statements and certify that they at least appear to be in order and are reasonable for the person presenting them. 

I always took pension 1099 firms, bank statements and my last tax return when getting an income verification and they had no interest in seeing them. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for perjury for lying on an affidavit? Of course the Thais got sick of this nonsense. Asking Thai Immigration to examine these documents would be like asking an American to examine Thai documents, absolutely pointless.

Frankly the Embassy just don't give a damn and this small effort is a show.

Respectfully, disagree. The Kingdom of Thailand has made an income requirement (and I agree they should and have a right to do so). The onus is on the Kingdom to validate. Reverse it....does the Thai government have any responsibility to validating US Visa requirements for Thai citizens? My take on renewing my Visa extension will be the presentation of my Thai bank documents showing I meet the income requirements. I anticipate no issues.

[lopburi3]

10 hours ago, Robins said:

The embassy staff could stand you in front of a PC and watch every keystroke while you log into your home country bank account and the source of your pension and examine the contents of each with your permission to see that they match the documents you're submitting.  Pretty hard to fake that.  Might take 10 whole minutes or so, and they could even charge a ridiculous price for it if they wanted.  Sad for guys who have been here many years to suddenly have to leave.  If they cared they would find a solution as easily as I just did. 

1.  No such procedure in use anywhere that I am aware of.

2.  Security issues to the extreme - even Embassies communications are subject to intercept - and a 3rd party would have to be present to make it even worse.

3.  For USA would not work for many/probably most who do not have government pensions as total income.

4.  Unfair to those not using government pensions if only that was verifiable.  

5.  The UK had an inhouse verification process - obviously they could not rely on it - there is just too much fake ('news') paperwork these days.  The sworn statement was best compromise - without that can only see two options - Thai government agency to investigate/certify for charge (not likely due number of countries that might be involved) or incoming funds to bank account (which seems to be general consensus at this time).  Obviously if 65k required coming into Thailand the goal post has changed from gross to net pay so many will have to use a combination with bank account but believe most will be able to remain (that actually meet requirements).  

 

At any rate expect we will get a better handle on situation in coming weeks and at least major players have provided a time for some to prepare by providing advance notice

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Respectfully, disagree. The Kingdom of Thailand has made an income requirement (and I agree they should and have a right to do so). The onus is on the Kingdom to validate. Reverse it....does the Thai government have any responsibility to validating US Visa requirements for Thai citizens? My take on renewing my Visa extension will be the presentation of my Thai bank documents showing I meet the income requirements. I anticipate no issues.

The problem is Thai immigration has  "never" accepted monthly deposits to a Thai Bank statements before without accompanying affidavit from an Embassy otherwise we would not have ever needed to pay for the Embassy letter. If they don't take bank statements then that only leaves 800,000 baht (retirement) or 400,000 baht (marriage) deposit in bank method. 

[a977]

11 hours ago, Robins said:

The embassy staff could stand you in front of a PC and watch every keystroke while you log into your home country bank account and the source of your pension and examine the contents of each with your permission to see that they match the documents you're submitting.  Pretty hard to fake that.  Might take 10 whole minutes or so, and they could even charge a ridiculous price for it if they wanted.  Sad for guys who have been here many years to suddenly have to leave.  If they cared they would find a solution as easily as I just did. 

Don't know about the U.S. Embassy but at the Australian Embassy you only see Thai's behind the window, "nough said

[dddave]

Like several other previous posters in this topic, I also had a 1:15 appointment at ACS yesterday, Dec. 20.

I arrived at 12:45 and was allowed right in.  As others have described, from the moment you exit security, embassy staff are waiting to check your documents and provide needed forms; even pens.  Several large tables are set up nearby for filling out the forms.  Another staffer checks completed forms and one is directed into Cashier line.  Four people ahead of me, paid in 5 minutes.  There were several stations where staff waited to witness affidavit declaration of veracity and signature. Signed and sealed, out the door at 1:05.

I think the embassy staff deserve a lot of credit for setting up an efficient and user friendly system to respond to the upsurge in income affidavit applications prior to the deadline.

[5633572526]

I suspect agents will be making a killing once the 6 month validity of the letters is past. I talked to the one I used when I first arrived in Thailand who made 800,000 seasoned baht magically appear in my account when I first converted to a retirement visa and he assured me he can do this for anyone in any Thai bank. Which is also the reason I don’t trust Thai banks. He also warned the price would double for this service next year.

also saved me a trip to immigration as he picked up my passport and bank passbook one day and returned it the next all done. Since then I have been doing it myself with income letter which will get me to 2020 before I need to explore all options again.

P.S. For the first couple years I brought documents proving the income I claimed to my embassy but they never had any interest in them.

Edited December 24, 2018 by 5633572526

[Pattaya46]

8 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

// who made 800,000 seasoned baht magically appear in my account when I first converted to a retirement visa and he assured me he can do this for anyone in any Thai bank. Which is also the reason I don’t trust Thai banks.

They don't make the 800'000B "seasoned"; they just deposit the money a few minutes in an account in your name, just the time for the bank to issue a letter stating that - at this instant - there was at least 800'000B on your account. The bank doesn't lie and doesn't make anything illegal.

 

PS: I do NOT recommend to use such agents though. This is a more than grey process and could bring you trouble in the future...