Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

[kannot]

Simple  disclaimer on arrival....."I agree that if i dont have the funds  to pay for any health problems whilst in Thailand i accept  i will be left to die"

[dcnx]

On 12/23/2018 at 8:52 PM, Maestro said:

There is no visa called VIP visa.

I think he means the Elite. Some new condos are giving them to buyers.

[stanleycoin]

16 minutes ago, kannot said:

Simple  disclaimer on arrival....."I agree that if i dont have the funds  to pay for any health problems whilst in Thailand i accept  i will be left to die"

There was me thinking 

They already do that.

TIT. 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by stanleycoin

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, d4291797 said:

Again for someone like myself, the only viable option at 72 is, if allowed, is to deposit the 440,000 in a bonded account.
Sorted then, as long as one has the funds.
Insurance quote for my age, 16000 Baht a month!
Equating to 192000 a year.


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That’s rough. Where are you from originally, and would you have coverage there if you returned home?

[happy chappie]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

Wow your parents did a great job bringing up such a compassionate human being.

 

Your rant applies to any country on the planet - all families seek security right ? Or did you get turned over and decide it must apply to 68,000,000 other people in this country ?

 

I have an extended thai family - in over a decade not one has asked me for a bean, never ever, they constantly run me to the airport and back, (I have to force them to let me put petrol in), go out of their way to impress me with their kindness, always up for a laugh, the kids are smart (they are always badgering me to learn more English) and for all that all they get out of me is a few family meals which I pay for, or a load of seafood on my way to see them which they will cook for all of us, and the odd week in my villa ! However most of the time its difficult to see them because they are all working too hard making not much.

 

Still don't let your stereotypical claptrap prevent you from having a miserable mistrusting life, it must be exhausting knowing it all.

 

Apologies TV - now back to the subject and a very interesting informative thread

 

 

Thing is it's quite true what bk6060 says.you seem to have the magic Thai family.im just lucky mine leave me alone and work for me for 500baht a day.

[garyk]

1 hour ago, d4291797 said:

Again for someone like myself, the only viable option at 72 is, if allowed, is to deposit the 440,000 in a bonded account.
Sorted then, as long as one has the funds.
Insurance quote for my age, 16000 Baht a month!
Equating to 192000 a year.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Yea, i looked into it also. That is what I do. Just self insure yourself when traveling. Medical is dirt chap here. 

 

I broke my wrist extremely bad in a climbing accident in Colombia, 5 hours in surgery. I paid out of pocket. Cheap as chips. Here is the same.

 

This insurance scam if implemented, will be worse than the 800K scam. At least with he 800K you can take it out and use it if needed.

 

If they force all this on an expat it will be a fools game to stay here.

 

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, garyk said:

Yea, i looked into it also. That is what I do. Just self insure yourself when traveling. Medical is dirt chap here. 

I broke my wrist extremely bad in a climbing accident in Colombia, 5 hours in surgery. I paid out of pocket. Cheap as chips. Here is the same.

This insurance scam if implemented, will be worse than the 800K scam. At least with he 800K you can take it out and use it if needed.

If they force all this on an expat it will be a fools game to stay here.

I agree that for minor injuries the medical system is inexpensive and quick. In fact I would go as far as to say that for some things probably better than the UK NHS regarding waiting. However, when most of us are talking personal insurance we are really thinking about heart attacks, strokes and getting hit by a baht bus on Second Road while day-dreaming. If something serious hits, then that 800k may be insufficient at the time. Not a good play IMHO if some cover is available. 

[Misab]

What I have seen of insurance offers are so expensive, what you pay in the premium over 2 -3 years are more than you will ever get out in case of sickness. Why don’t the government let people deposit an amount equal to what insurance companies pay out.

Insurance for elderly people is rubbery.

[marcusarelus]

4 hours ago, garyk said:

I keep a small home in America just for that kind of thing. Medicare and supplement plan has been a god send for me. 

When I get sick I high tail it back home. ????

Last time I got sick I had 20 minutes to make it the hospital for emergency care or I would have died.  The only thing that I would have gotten home was my body in a coffin which is really not cost effective as opposed to local cremation.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

Simple  disclaimer on arrival....."I agree that if i dont have the funds  to pay for any health problems whilst in Thailand i accept  i will be left to die"

I had a friend who the Thai hospital was starving to death while waiting for him to die.  I brought him sandwiches and that's all he got to eat.  If you want to go that way I guess each to his own.  

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Misab said:

What I have seen of insurance offers are so expensive, what you pay in the premium over 2 -3 years are more than you will ever get out in case of sickness. Why don’t the government let people deposit an amount equal to what insurance companies pay out.

Insurance for elderly people is rubbery.

Have you looked at cardiac care costs?  I have insurance under 100,000 baht per year.  If you have read the information on the insurance threads and talked to an agent you would be better informed. 

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, d4291797 said:

Again for someone like myself, the only viable option at 72 is, if allowed, is to deposit the 440,000 in a bonded account.
Sorted then, as long as one has the funds.
Insurance quote for my age, 16000 Baht a month!
Equating to 192000 a year.
Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

I'd check with another agent - I'm paying less than half of that amount.  Have you had a face to face meeting with an agent in Thailand?

[Joe Mcseismic]

My financial plan requires me to die when I'm 71 and four months.

[Sheryl]

A lot of very ill informed posts here.

Outpatient care in Thailand is generally affordable. Hospitalization for a major accident with multiple serious injuries, a massive heart attack or stroke and the like run to millions of baht.

The majority of insured people will receive less in insurance pay outs than they paid in premiums. A minority will receive substantially more. That's how insurance works, whether it is health insurance or car imsurance or whatever. Risks are shared across a large pool of people and it is worth doing because you have no way of knowing if you'll be one of those who ends up with bills in excess of premiums or not. In addition, you do not know when the need for hospitalization will arise. Even if over the course of your remaining lifetime you pay in more than you claim that may not be the case in the initial years of the policy.

Putting the amount that would have been paid in premiums (which is actually anout half of what some posters have said) aside and calling that self insurance does not work because it will take 10-30 years for that to add up to enough and for all you know, you could have a major expense this very year....and you are very likely to have one some time in the interval before the premium amounts reach the necessary total.

The only way to genuinely self insure is to put aside a large lump sum (several million baht) at the onset and then replenish it as it is used. Most people can't afford to do this, and those who can, often prefer to insure as a form of asset protection.


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[Joe Mcseismic]

Took two years off work, so no earnings for that time. As a result, the missus and I started living on a budget.

I upped the wife's medical insurance, which cost double the old one.

She said that if we were going to save money, why didn't we get a cheaper plan than the original?

I told her that the less money you have, the more important good insurance becomes.

The penny finally dropped...................but it took a couple of days.

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, happy chappie said:

in fact I put you on to insure and go and you couldn't even sort out a quote which I then had to do.

'Er no, regarding insureandgo. I used to insure with them online many years ago. Paid for an annual multi-trip policy. Dropped them primarily because I wanted individual trips longer in duration and then switched to Amex who were then offering 120 days. And then dropped Amex once I wanted single trips longer than 120 days. As for the link you provided, it would be completely unnecessary for me to enter a start and finish date for an annual policy. An annual policy only requires a start date. Not difficult to work out. What I did was enter a start and finish date for a single trip. Jan 1 to December 31. Refused as I expected. Annual multi-trip policies do not require one to record the start and finish date of any single trip, but are invalidated if any single trip goes beyond the policy's stated limitation of any single trip duration. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by SheungWan

[moogradod]

On 12/24/2018 at 5:34 AM, randy723 said:

I have had 7 Farang friends move to either Vietnam or Cambodia in the last year.....

I just wonder why so many speak with ease about relocating to (as an example) Vietnam. I thought that Vietnam does not provide a possibility to stay long term. Did all these friends open businesses there or how did they do it ? Sorry this is off topic - or is it not ?

[roo860]

Anyone know what the criteria is in their home country, for an over fifty foreigner to stay there for 1 year?

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[laislica]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:49 PM, darksidedog said:

This is for those on O-A visa. It does not  impact those on retirement extensions, although any with sense will have some form of insurance anyway. We have all seen people getting hurt and having to go fund me to pay their bills. The big question is how long before they start focusing on the tourists and insisting they have some insurance too. There are Thai policies which cover this requirement for a few thousand baht and they have to offer cover to people up to 100 years of age, so no worries on the too old bit.

 

Didn't Thailand add money to every air fare to cover this already?

 

The big question is, do they actually pay out?????

By 70+ one is likely to have pre-existing conditions for every ailment?

Then if they can rule your accident as Your reckless behaviour.....

 

Buying insurance at age 70+, not easy or cheap.

I have 1m BHT in the bank as my emergency fund.

Although I have a retirement visa, I stay less than 3 months per year nowadays.

New rules like this will mean my wife visits alone and I stay in Europe where we both have full comprehensive NHS cover.

 

When I was in Thailand, I tended to visit resorts and spend loadsa cash, the ole millionaire for the month syndrome.

Looks like I'll be spending that cash elsewhere then, in places where I feel more welcome.

 

 

[Mister Fixit]

11 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

my business partner got leukemia at 40 years of age which is a catastrophic illness. his medical bills were 1.1 million US dollars. he almost died but the doctors in the USA saved his life. Insurance paid for all of it. most people can't afford to fund catastrophic illness or accidents.

They don't need to if they live in a civilised country which provides free healthcare for all, regardless of income or status.  

[laislica]

11 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

my business partner got leukemia at 40 years of age which is a catastrophic illness. his medical bills were 1.1 million US dollars. he almost died but the doctors in the USA saved his life. Insurance paid for all of it. most people can't afford to fund catastrophic illness or accidents.

They don't need to if they live in a civilised country which provides free healthcare for all, regardless of income or status.  

 

 

 

and of course it's not free.

We paid towards it all our working life, it was called National Insurance.

 

But yes, Though I'm a Brit but live in Spain, my wife was also included on my health insurance.....

Civilised indeed.

[Felt 35]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:45 PM, anterian said:

I thought that was the basic point of the 800 kBaht, to show that one could cover medical expenses. 

If so what about them with Thailand Elite visa? Is insurance included in Thailand Elite and covering the amount stipulated in the report above? IMO there are only one point with all this new visas and Immigration policies.....

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

If so what about them with Thailand Elite visa? Is insurance included in Thailand Elite and covering the amount stipulated in the report above? IMO there are only one point with all this new visas and Immigration policies.....

The Elite Visa is a legal system to pay them off in a lump-sum to not pretend to care if you have any money left to support yourself.  In this respect, it works the same as paying them off annually via an agent - but for longer periods of time, and available to under-50s who don't have Thai family and don't work here. 

 

Insurance was included in the other longer-stay visa - the "OX" - but not the Elite, so I suspect this is unlikely to change.  And, yes, that does make it more "attractive" - which could be a motivating factor.  But, for now at least, the insurance requirement is only proposed for Non-OA 1-Year ME Visas.

[galt67]

2 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

If so what about them with Thailand Elite visa? Is insurance included in Thailand Elite and covering the amount stipulated in the report above? IMO there are only one point with all this new visas and Immigration policies.....

The 'Elite Visa' is categorized as a 'tourist' visa (NOT 'long-stay') thus probably(?) would not fall under this insurance requirement.

 

No guarantees as TIT.

[mahtin]

Just read 26 pages and have developed a medical condition known as a headache.

[mahtin]

On a more serious note...

 

When applying for a driver's licence, it is easy to obtain a medical certificate without examination, and for minimal cost.

 

One might conjecture that insurance brokers with equally few scruples could offer (worthless) policies at minimal cost, but satisfactory for the requirements of this scheme.

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, mahtin said:

On a more serious note...

 

When applying for a driver's licence, it is easy to obtain a medical certificate without examination, and for minimal cost.

 

One might conjecture that insurance brokers with equally few scruples could offer (worthless) policies at minimal cost, but satisfactory for the requirements of this scheme.

Yea a 10 million baht policy for 1,000 baht a year that excludes every thing except getting your blood pressure checked once.....

Edited December 25, 2018 by fforest1

[KhaoYai]

On 12/23/2018 at 1:53 PM, BestB said:

What are the offers from Thai insurance? Last time i checked to get equally as good cover as my International is same if not more.

 

I am in early 40's and paying around 50 000 per year, and it does not include ODP, if i was to add ODP my premium would almost double.

 

Now why on earth do i need to have ODP?, its 600-1000 per visit, why on earth would i want to have insurance which only covers 400 000 hospitalization? Thats 2-3 nights in a decent hospital with a minor surgery, any thing more serious and surgery alone is 400 000 already 

 

Now for those on NON O, insurance premiums are almost double to what i am paying, All i can see is many packing up. Not saying one should not have insurance, but this policy will hurt a few pockets

I don't know where you get your figures from.  A couple of years ago my wife (now ex) had what I would class as minor surgery - an emergency repair to one of her falopian tubes following an ectopic pregnancy. She spent 2 nights and 3 days in the Bangkok Hospital, Korat (not known for its low prices) and the total cost was 88,000 baht - nowhere near 400,000.

[Mister Fixit]

9 hours ago, laislica said:

They don't need to if they live in a civilised country which provides free healthcare for all, regardless of income or status.  

 

 

 

and of course it's not free.

We paid towards it all our working life, it was called National Insurance.

 

But yes, Though I'm a Brit but live in Spain, my wife was also included on my health insurance.....

Civilised indeed.

Of course it isn't 'free' (nothing is), but to all intents and purposes it is.  People don't miss the money because it's deducted at source from salaries along with income tax.

 

So the motorways, the forces, the education systems etc are de facto all 'free'.

 

[Anythingleft?]

Of course it isn't 'free' (nothing is), but to all intents and purposes it is.  People don't miss the money because it's deducted at source from salaries along with income tax.
 
So the motorways, the forces, the education systems etc are de facto all 'free'.
 

There's the issue because it is actually free for a huge and growing number of people in the UK that have never, and will never, pay into or support the system.....

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