22-year-old American teacher, struck with paralysis stuck in Thailand, unable to return home

[bowerboy]

7 hours ago, madmen said:

Some bits make no sense to me as a pilot.

 

Noise can be easily dealt with by earplugs or rated headphones

 

Flight conditions wouldn't make a difference to either aircraft

 

Availability? Turbo prop air ambulance are a dime a dozen

 

A Lear jet is only economicaly viable at 35 to 45 thousand feet where density altitude as miniscule compared to 10,000 ft or less where the fuel available would be chewed up way faster than a turbo prop

 

Lear jet would be the very last choice for very low altitude

 

Your a bit out of your depth on this one

 

 

You very clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Pilot? No doubt you are also ex Special Forces too.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by bowerboy
Change

[LomSak27]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Too many smiles on that picture.   I would be skeptical donating money without meeting her personally first and listen to the doctors prognosis . 

 

Ok Sherlock, after you make your visit, don't be shy, post up on TV your professional 'expat' opinion.      We, here in the TV peanut gallery will be waiting.

Edited January 3, 2019 by LomSak27

[wwest5829]

I directed an annual program of student study and Scout Exchanges. Could not have the program without the required travel/medical insurance.

[happy chappie]

17 hours ago, madmen said:

17 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

This thread will soon be filled with ignorant comments and claims based upon imagined  circumstances.
 
The only lol will come from  those who read your ignorant comment. You have no idea as to the facts of this case and yet here you are  claiming there is an insurance mafia.  Please share with everyone your knowledge of this case that allows you to offermake your claims.  Your allegations are false and a pathetic manifestation of buffoonery.  They are also malicious.

Good points. Since this isn't a broken back and a resultant SCI then she may very well fit into a regular disabled person mode of transport being a normal flight.

She's paralysed and can't even pick her nose.probably got a colostomy bag and catheter fitted and would at least need a doctor and nurse to transport her on a stretcher.i don't think any airline would allow her to board a flight in her situation.as for insurance,looks like they've just dumped her as soon as they've heard the word medivac.also what doctor is going to sign her off as fit to travel when they've got her stuck in a room and raking in big money by the hour?

Edited January 3, 2019 by happy chappie

[8OA8]

According to the Gofundme site the target amount of $70k has already been exceeded at $73k and the message is stating that their insurance company have advised them they will now pay for the repatriation as the following explains:

Update: Thanks to the outpouring support and the attention from social media we have just learned that the travel insurance company has agreed to get Caroline home. We will utilize all funds for her medical costs and rehabilitation. If there are any additional funds they will be donated to GBS/CIDP Foundation International.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by 8OA8
Paste in text from gofundme page

[Tradewind777]

Well said to put down that ignorant clown talking about “insurance mafia” nonsense. As per usual the press stories don’t tell the whole. Armchair experts seem to be in not short supply on TV unfortunately. Anyway here’s to a a speedy resolution to the problem and hopefully the generous American community will contribute  to her early medivac.

[Jai Dee]

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[userabcd]

18 hours ago, madmen said:

"To complicate matters, dad says their insurance company denied a request to transport Caroline back to the United States."

 

Surely repatriation via medi vac flight is covered by most insurance policies if not all

 

Gonna be cheaper than leaving her in hospital for 3 months

 

 

 

 

Comment withdrawn.

Edited January 3, 2019 by userabcd

[userabcd]

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

Comment withdrawn.

Edited January 3, 2019 by userabcd

[userabcd]

5 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Comment withdrawn

 

[Pdavies99]

19 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

This thread will soon be filled with ignorant comments and claims based upon imagined  circumstances.

 

Indeed and common sense. However, we are missing some important facts such as;

- Does she really have this  illness?

- Did the medical report state that she could be treated in Thailand for a period of time and then brought home?

- Did the medical assessment from the insurer indicate she did not need a  complete medievac, but could use a conventional transport method?

The news report is not complete.

 

The only lol will come from  those who read your ignorant comment. You have no idea as to the facts of this case and yet here you are  claiming there is an insurance mafia.  Please share with everyone your knowledge of this case that allows you to offermake your claims.  Your allegations are false and a pathetic manifestation of buffoonery.  They are also malicious.

I have found that Insurance Companies are okay, of course it will never cover pre existing ailments, why should they? Read the cover and ask questions if concerned!

[Sheryl]

As I understand the story her insurance IS paying in full for her treatment.

 

The point of contention is that the family wants the insurance to pay for medivac back to the US while the insurance insists on treatment in Thailand.

 

Every travel insurance policy I have ever seen gives the insurer the right to decide whether to pay for treatment in country (provided appropriate treatment is available there) or medivac to home (or to another nearby country is applicable i.e. if the needed care is nto available where you are but is available in a neighboring ocuntry).   If appropriate care is available in country then it usually boils down to a cost issue. Apparently her current condition is such that transport back to the US would be very costly, whereas treatment in Thailand at this stage (off respirator etc) is not.

[Rod the Sod]

20 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

Ho hum, here we go again....

Yes, enter all the commentators that know zilch about Insurance......

 

The platform is yours......

[1337markus]

20 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Photo caption:

"Welcome to Hospital Thailand big money USA lady. Like your hotel California you can check out but you can never leave."

Going to be expensive. I recognise the uniforms having spent 3 nights in Bangkok hospital chain.

[Hank Gunn]

14 hours ago, madmen said:

15 hours ago, bowerboy said:

 
I think this is off the mark. I worked in the Medical Evacuation Industry in Asia for 9 years for the leading medical evacuation company.
 
A stretcher evac from Asia to U.K. would cost significantly more than than 12k with a nurse and doctor escort. If you were in a stretcher then you probably had a significant problem and would of needed not insignificant levels of care. Commercial Stretcher is the last option (First or Business serves the same purpose in all but the most complicated cases) and airlines generally try to avoid these types of evacuations due to passenger and crew inconvenience and potential increased all around liability issues.
 
Also it is very unlikely the insurance company would of told you the cost unless you were paying for the evacuation yourself or had to fund some portion of it. If it was covered with Insurance they would not tell you the cost because you do not need to know and also because they keep it confidential as evacuations paid by insurance tend to cost more than if paid by the patient privately (if private then it is more competitive as the patient can shop around for prices).
 
Evacuating a paralysed patient to USA would be a minimum $60k if it was even allowed to be done and IF any commercial airline would accept the patient (they have the right to refuse). If it was medivac on a charter flight then this would easily be upwards of $100k to the US.
 
Many factors come into play with medevacs depending on the condition of the patient and airline and medical regulations. For example a medivac of a brain or head injury may need to fly at low altitude for the entire duration. This needs special clearance and also consumes much more fuel when aircraft fly at low altitude and so the cost goes through the roof (real case medevac on charter Learjet from Maldives to Bangkok with brain injury was $120k USD for the above reasons as well as specialist teams and equipment). 
 
 

I would have thought an air ambulance king air turbo prop would fly the same speed as a Lear jet at low altitude say 13000 feet at around 280 kts and a lot cheaper

I don’t know the range of the typical turbo prop but I doubt it could cross the Pacific to repatriate her to the US.

[Hank Gunn]

4 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

Ok Sherlock, after you make your visit, don't be shy, post up on TV your professional 'expat' opinion.      We, here in the TV peanut gallery will be waiting.

Some real heartless barstewards on this forum.

[Tony125]

https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Guillain-Barré-Syndrome-Fact-Sheet     

 

As the article stated recovery varies but nowadays is usually not fatal but may take from 6 months to 3 years to fully recover. Some never recover fully.

[madmen]

8 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

I don’t know the range of the typical turbo prop but I doubt it could cross the Pacific to repatriate her to the US.

Neither would at that height and a jet would be WAY More expensive on fuel and to hire. 

 

Can't see why a Lear couldn't fly at 40000 feet since it's cabin pressure is set at 8000 feet 

[happy chappie]

4 hours ago, Tradewind777 said:

Well said to put down that ignorant clown talking about “insurance mafia” nonsense. As per usual the press stories don’t tell the whole. Armchair experts seem to be in not short supply on TV unfortunately. Anyway here’s to a a speedy resolution to the problem and hopefully the generous American community will contribute  to her early medivac.

Looks like they were named and shamed over the media into paying out else why the go fund me set up.in the original report they were not paying.ive had a few genuine claims on insurance and got fobbed off.the only time they paid out was when the Iceland volcano stopped flights and I spent 10 days waiting to get back to the uk.they paid me £150 out of good will which paid for my car over stay in Heathrow.my partner and daughter got sweet FA as they were on a different insurance.most claims lines are manned by sharp arsed tongued staff who's sole job is to look into ways of not paying out.my ex had a job at budget and was offered a position in claims but turned down.

[happy chappie]

1 hour ago, 1337markus said:

Going to be expensive. I recognise the uniforms having spent 3 nights in Bangkok hospital chain.

Yes and there's a bill already being made for 6 smiling nurses.

[natway09]

If the insurance company will cover her in hospital here, what's wrong with that ?

Rama Thipode Hospital has an amazing recovery program for this kind of problem

[Sheryl]

Looks like they were named and shamed over the media into paying out else why the go fund me set up.in the original report they were not paying.ive had a few genuine claims on insurance and got fobbed off.the only time they paid out was when the Iceland volcano stopped flights and I spent 10 days waiting to get back to the uk.they paid me £150 out of good will which paid for my car over stay in Heathrow.my partner and daughter got sweet FA as they were on a different insurance.most claims lines are manned by sharp arsed tongued staff who's sole job is to look into ways of not paying out.my ex had a job at budget and was offered a position in claims but turned down.

If you read the original link the GoFundMe was set up to cover the cost of bringing her back to the US. Payment of medical costs in Thailand has never been at issue, the insurance is covering that.

There is nothing medically wrong with her being treated in Thailand until she is well enough to take an ordinary flight home. But she and her family find it stressful to have her so far away and would prefer to get her home now, which the insurer does not agree to pay for.

Incidentally they would not be even talking of bringing her home if she did not also have health insurance there. Virtually all health care in the US for people under 65 is paid for through private insurance.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[balo]

1 hour ago, happy chappie said:

Yes and there's a bill already being made for 6 smiling nurses.

I am sure they are all not into it for the money , they are genuine nurses on a normal salary. Just the picture looked a bit weird to me. 

 

[Kieran00001]

 

Just now, madmen said:

Neither would at that height and a jet would be WAY More expensive on fuel and to hire. 

 

Can't see why a Lear couldn't fly at 40000 feet since it's cabin pressure is set at 8000 feet 

 

Learjets can fly at 40,000 feet, they tend to choose to fly at between 40,000 and 50,000 as the thinner air up there gives them the best fuel efficiency, while the commercial airliners choose 36,000 to 41,000 as that is the most fuel efficienct for their engines.

[bowerboy]

3 hours ago, madmen said:

Neither would at that height and a jet would be WAY More expensive on fuel and to hire. 

 

Can't see why a Lear couldn't fly at 40000 feet since it's cabin pressure is set at 8000 feet 

 

Hey Captain Scully, I see you are a Doctor now also.

 

https://www.airmedandrescue.com/story/sea-level-cabin-pressure-traumatic-brain-injury-patients-questioned1090  

 

And as it is a quiet afternoon in the office and you are the Special Forces Doctor Pilot expert how about answering these:

 

For a Medevac from Maldives to Bangkok would you use aircraft from India or Bangkok?

Since Air Kings are a "dime a dozen" would they have any available in Maldives?

Which islands in Maldives have landing strips?

If you used an aircraft from India then would they also have qualified medical personnel available?

Would they also have medical equipment available in India at that very moment?

Would they have the above correct combination in Bangkok (or elsewhere in the region).

How many refuels would you need to do from Maldives to Bangkok when flying at low altitude?

Which Learjet are we even talking about and what range (there are different size Lear Jets)?

What impact would multiple refuel stops have on a brain injury when pressurizing and depressurizing the aircraft?

What medical equipment would be required and how many medical staff? Would they fit in an Air King? What size Lear Jet would be required for them to fit in?

 

And here is a trick one for you just to test out your significant knowledge on the matter - What type of helicopter would be needed to successfully complete a night time evacuation from Nakon Phanom to Bangkok?

 

Please do enlighten us all.

 

FYI the above evacuation was for the Child of a Foreign Dignatory on holiday in Maldives...the child survived the evacuation with odds of 50/50...the family had to pay themselves but they could afford it without any issue.

 

[madmen]

  Hey Captain Scully, I see you are a Doctor now also.

 

https://www.airmedandrescue.com/story/sea-level-cabin-pressure-traumatic-brain-injury-patients-questioned1090  

 

And as it is a quiet afternoon in the office and you are the Special Forces Doctor Pilot expert how about answering these:

 

For a Medevac from Maldives to Bangkok would you use aircraft from India or Bangkok?

Since Air Kings are a "dime a dozen" would they have any available in Maldives?

Which islands in Maldives have landing strips?

If you used an aircraft from India then would they also have qualified medical personnel available?

Would they also have medical equipment available in India at that very moment?

Would they have the above correct combination in Bangkok (or elsewhere in the region).

How many refuels would you need to do from Maldives to Bangkok when flying at low altitude?

Which Learjet are we even talking about and what range (there are different size Lear Jets)?

What impact would multiple refuel stops have on a brain injury when pressurizing and depressurizing the aircraft?

What medical equipment would be required and how many medical staff? Would they fit in an Air King? What size Lear Jet would be required for them to fit in?

 

And here is a trick one for you just to test out your significant knowledge on the matter - What type of helicopter would be needed to successfully complete a night time evacuation from Nakon Phanom to Bangkok?

 

Please do enlighten us all.

 

FYI the above evacuation was for the Child of a Foreign Dignatory on holiday in Maldives...the child survived the evacuation with odds of 50/50...the family had to pay themselves but they could afford it without any issue.

 

 

I wasn't the one who suggested flying a Lear jet under 10 000 feet. I simply replied to the poster which you completely missed. 

Lesson number one.. Learn to read!!

 

If you were going to be under 10000 feet then a turbo prop would be the choice but neither would make it without obvious multiple stops.

 

My suggestion is fly the jet at the best altitude for fuel burn eg 40000 plus feet.

 

Why? Because the cabin altitude is 8000 ft and being a medi vac a special clearance requesting a 500 ft to 1000 ft /minute rate of climb to minimize pressure differential for injury to the head.. Again I was replying to a specific poster who mentioned head injury.. You missed that to

 

Thank God your not a pilot! Reading is kind of up there as a basic requirement!!

 

 

 

[bowerboy]

58 minutes ago, madmen said:

I wasn't the one who suggested flying a Lear jet under 10 000 feet. I simply replied to the poster which you completely missed. 

Lesson number one.. Learn to read!!

 

If you were going to be under 10000 feet then a turbo prop would be the choice but neither would make it without obvious multiple stops.

 

My suggestion is fly the jet at the best altitude for fuel burn eg 40000 plus feet.

 

Why? Because the cabin altitude is 8000 ft and being a medi vac a special clearance requesting a 500 ft to 1000 ft /minute rate of climb to minimize pressure differential for injury to the head.. Again I was replying to a specific poster who mentioned head injury.. You missed that to

 

Thank God your not a pilot! Reading is kind of up there as a basic requirement!!

 

 

 

 

Nnnnnnill Pwoin!!!!!

 

”Thank god you are not a pilot”...right back at you!!

[hansnl]

On 1/2/2019 at 3:45 PM, geriatrickid said:

This thread will soon be filled with ignorant comments and claims based upon imagined  circumstances.

 

Indeed and common sense. However, we are missing some important facts such as;

- Does she really have this  illness?

- Did the medical report state that she could be treated in Thailand for a period of time and then brought home?

- Did the medical assessment from the insurer indicate she did not need a  complete medievac, but could use a conventional transport method?

The news report is not complete.

 

The only lol will come from  those who read your ignorant comment. You have no idea as to the facts of this case and yet here you are  claiming there is an insurance mafia.  Please share with everyone your knowledge of this case that allows you to offermake your claims.  Your allegations are false and a pathetic manifestation of buffoonery.  They are also malicious.

I will certainly not say that there is an insurance Mafia.

I wouldn't dare to say so.

But I can't escape the idea insurance companies will do a lot to escape honouring a claim, and will only pay out if there is no way to dodge a claim.

 

[jackdd]

On 1/2/2019 at 3:07 PM, madmen said:

"To complicate matters, dad says their insurance company denied a request to transport Caroline back to the United States."

 

Surely repatriation via medi vac flight is covered by most insurance policies if not all

 

Gonna be cheaper than leaving her in hospital for 3 months

 

On 1/2/2019 at 3:11 PM, from the home of CC said:

Yep, another example of the insurance mafia who will drag out legal litigation for years rather than pay up a claim. All those who think smugly that they're protected here are in for a very rude surprise if something untoward happens, how do think these companies got so powerful? It wasn't due to paying out claims lol.   

 

Insurance companies know their math. When looking at medical costs it's quite easy to see that treating somebody in the US costs way more than here in Thailand.

So the insurance company decided that it's cheaper to treat her in Thailand than flying her back, and that the treatment in Thailand is sufficient.

I don't really understand why you hate against the insurance company, their decision is reasonable.

 

I do of course also understand that the parents want her daughter back home, and that the daughter wants to be with her parents / friends, but i can't see any wrongdoing by the insurance company

[madmen]

 
Insurance companies know their math. When looking at medical costs it's quite easy to see that treating somebody in the US costs way more than here in Thailand.
So the insurance company decided that it's cheaper to treat her in Thailand than flying her back, and that the treatment in Thailand is sufficient.
I don't really understand why you hate against the insurance company, their decision is reasonable.
 
I do of course also understand that the parents want her daughter back home, and that the daughter wants to be with her parents / friends, but i can't see any wrongdoing by the insurance company

Insurance companies do not continue treatment after repatriation. Why would they?

Just viewed the fine print on a policy and it clearly states.. Do not apply if you do not have access to Medicare in Australia after repatriation "

When they get you back you are no longer a traveler.. Obviously