BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[JackGats]

Let's hope this is not a prelude to taxing our pensions.

[JamJar]

25 minutes ago, Henryford said:

My extension is due this June. I normally do a transfer once or twice a year to equal 65k a month. It is too late now for me to do 12 monthly transfers this year. Am i F***** even if i have 800k in the bank in June.

 

Rules relaxed until 2020 as I read it.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, DaRoadrunner said:

One can always consider other countries but they all have restrictive Visa rules, so where does one go?

Stay in your own country. NO visa required, no 90-day reporting, No TM30, etc. etc. No money to show, no money to keep in the bank. Subscribe to International Living. They have lots of options. This forum is becoming useless. Only meant for people to vent their anger

Edited January 6, 2019 by onera1961

[JimGant]

"For retirement extensions of no more than 1 year evidence of average monthly income of B65,000 is required."

"However, it already seems clear that there must be at least 12 transfers in the previous year."

 

Ok, for a Yank, send $2000 per month for 11 months. TransferWise is cheaper per unit for low amounts transfered. Then, at month 12, do a large SWIFT transfer of enough dollars, at the current exchange rate, to arrive at a 780k baht total amount, over 12 months. One large SWIFT fee, 11 relatively cheap TransferWise fees, and an average of 65k baht per month over the previous year prior to retirement.

 

The math works. Not sure about the spirit of the deal.

[fforest1]

2 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Let's hope this is not a prelude to taxing our pensions.

Another great idea to muck things up and make the farang more crazy...lol 

[onera1961]

I think some people are deliberately posting that 400K/800K rules. May be they wish so because they could not put the money in the bank. @ubonjoe repeatedly posted that nothing has changed except for the countries that won't issue fake "income letters"

[wobalt]

There will always be ways of immigration and agents working together to fill their pockets, so some of us will always have to use an agent.

No seasoning.? Where you get this information?


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[billd766]

39 minutes ago, sambum said:

Is the post not about official information from Thai Immigration? It also appears that a bit of forward planning may be needed if you need to have 12 month's worth of deposits paid into a Thai bank. However, I am going tp wait for the "official English translation" before making any plans/decisions!

AFAICS until the Immigration Dept publish the new regulations (in Thai naturally but hopefully with an English translation) then most of what has been posted is speculation and unanswered questions.

 

Ubonjoe said in a post much earlier that while some people have apparently seen the Thai version it will not be legal until it is posted and confirmed. Hopefully that will b e this week and again hopefully an English translation will accompany it.

 

Then it has to be sent out to ALL the immigration offices who will still be using the old version until they are notified.

 

IMHO I think having some small experience of Thai bureaucracy that it will be later in January before it works in the more enlightened offices and probably by the end of the month for the smaller and more Luddite offices to make it work.

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, JLCrab said:

True but that doesn't mean that the words will be changed to "any funds from outside Thailand" as they may want to be reassured that actually IS some source of monthly funds.

 

8 hours ago, JLCrab said:

True but that doesn't mean that the words will be changed to "any funds from outside Thailand" as they may want to be reassured that actually IS some source of monthly funds.

People who are living permanently, or should I say, from year to year in Thailand, and are not working, then any money they get at all will be coming from outside Thailand even if they are transferring funds from one Thai bank to another.

As long as the person is paying their way in Thailand honestly and legally while living here, it should not matter to Thai immigration or any other Thai authority.

[cmarshall]

37 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

 Folks all this visa tightening and convoluted and complicated rules and requirements that are constantly changing.....IS NO ACCIDENT....

What the end game result they want is open for debate....Do they want some of the farang to leave?....Do they want most of the farang to leave?....Do they want all the farang to leave?.......

 

The only secure visa seems to be the elite visa...

 

 

 

  

Seems an odd conclusion to reach, since the changes from Thai Immigration are clearly in response to changes initiated by the four foreign governments, i.e. our own governments.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

 @ubonjoe repeatedly posted that nothing has changed except for the countries that won't issue fake "income letters"

 

I don't recall him ever using the terms you've used above.

 

And all I know personally is, my income was always real, my Embassy declaration was always accurate down to the last dollar, thus my Embassy income letter was truthful and accurate, I always went to my annual Immigration appointment with a full set of backup financial documents to support my Income affidavit -- and yet, my Embassy is no longer providing any such letters.

[KhaoYai]

All this moaning and groaning.  To anyone legally living in Thailand, this should be good news - a problem has been resolved.  The income requirements are no different to what they've been for a long time. If you didn't have that sort of income before you shouldn't have been in Thailand.

 

Every country has the right to make its own laws and in essence, these are not really new. Those who have the correct amount of income will have no problems other than those 'invented' by corrupt immigration officials at some offices who try to make things difficult in order to line their pockets.

 

 

[ginjag]

13 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Because you are asking people spending 1,900 baht a year for "1 years freedom" to pay 60,000 baht. That does not make any sense. You need money to live on in Thailand so transfers need to be made or money held in the bank even if you paid 60,000. Yes you could get away with smaller transfers or less in the bank etc, but to pay 60K for the privilege would. IMO, be nuts. 

NO,  T.I. want 40-60k monthly,  Many not so well off can live comfortably here on 20-30k a month pension...They are stopping that...60,000 a year would solve most problems.

 

OK you like 800,000 stuffed  in a bank and can afford 40-60k a month pension  your 1,500 baht , compared with 60,000 is ridiculous.   My 60,000 suggestion is finished, clean.  It relieves the 800,000k in the bank, producing Thai bank entries of over the norm pensions.   BUT you are not looking to cater for all here.  A simple hassle free 1 year stay and   ATM, transfer money whenever you need from your UK bank. most of all not involving a dictatorship order to have your pension diverted from the pension department to a Thai bank....say what you like but the new rules are losing more than gaining ex pats.   I do care about the people with a fair bank balance and a pension that supports living here.  My lease here 6,500 baht for a 3 bed bungalow Air con 2, super gardens.Per month 2,500 pays true vision wi fi and sim package, Per month, water electric 1000 baht a month.

I am a home person, no smoke no drink no hotel meals, have a car,  Udon.  so 10,000 baht a month to live.     food local market Tesco, cooking at home. paid UK debit card.  YES people can live at a nice low price if outside of BKK  Pattaya, Phuket, Chiang Mai etc........

[NoshowJones]

48 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I am, are you? And if you read the previous question then the answer is self-explanatory, though a comma after the second word would help.

 

Take the time to read through and there is your answer

It does not matter about any previous post, the wording was all wrong.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

AFAICS until the Immigration Dept publish the new regulations (in Thai naturally but hopefully with an English translation) then most of what has been posted is speculation and unanswered questions.

 

Ubonjoe said in a post much earlier that while some people have apparently seen the Thai version it will not be legal until it is posted and confirmed. Hopefully that will b e this week and again hopefully an English translation will accompany it.

 

Then it has to be sent out to ALL the immigration offices who will still be using the old version until they are notified.

 

IMHO I think having some small experience of Thai bureaucracy that it will be later in January before it works in the more enlightened offices and probably by the end of the month for the smaller and more Luddite offices to make it work.

 

From the way I understood all the earlier info, the official Thai Immigration memo, in Thai, has already been sent out to the various Immigration offices.

 

There seems to be little expectation that Thai Immigration will publicly issue their own English language translation of that memo or post an English version on their website (though they certainly could...)

 

So the only thing I'm waiting to see is the more formal EN translation of the Immigration memo that ThaiVisa apparently is arranging and plans to post here when completed.

 

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

All this moaning and groaning.  To anyone legally living in Thailand, this should be good news - a problem has been resolved.  The income requirements are no different to what they've been for a long time. If you didn't have that sort of income before you shouldn't have been in Thailand.

 

Every country has the right to make its own laws and in essence, these are not really new. Those who have the correct amount of income will have no problems other than those 'invented' by corrupt immigration officials at some offices who try to make things difficult in order to line their pockets.

 

 

I would NEVER need 40-60k a month to live here...... can live easy on near half that.........Quote shouldn't be here ?????  I have been visiting 38 years, and actually living here all year round for 14 years....SO I shouldn't be here  ????   get a life, that is an insult to say shouldn't be here.

[NoshowJones]

12 minutes ago, wobalt said:

No seasoning.? Where you get this information?


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Where did I mention anything about seasoning?

[Grusa]

I find it hard to believe:-

1. That there are 38 pages of responses to this crap - I only reached 13 before giving up,

2. That there are so many people so close to the edge that they need to worry - my (farang) wife and I would qualify, by the way -

3. That any government organisation anywhere could be so completely incompetent as to not model/analyse/modify/translate their ruminations before promulgating them.

4. That there seems to be no consideration of "grandfather rights" for those who have been well behaved "guests" for donkeys' years.

 

Or, maybe there are! IOs have absolute discretion, so I understand, in their decisions. I have never had any problem in my or my wifes' dealings with them, over 12 years. No agencies, no dodgy deals, no brown envelopes, no tea money, no "friends in high places".. I have them if needed, but never used.

 

If you follow the rules to the letter, turn up properly prepared, properly dressed, and with a proper....not obsequious (crawling?) attitude, and quietly submit to whatever ritual paperwork humiliation they can impose, you will be fine. If you turn up with all your tattoos, your manbreasts and/or your dick hanging out, you will be refused. Respect is not Rocket Science!

 

As to the money, what they require is obvious...they want to know you will not become a burden on the State. Same as USA, UK, Woop-Woop. Just use whichever strategy ticks their collective boxes, and you are in. Do it well, do it in good time, and do it politely. These guys have, in theory at least, lost most of their sources of revenue. Why should they cut you any slack?

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

As long as the person is paying their way in Thailand honestly and legally while living here, it should not matter to Thai immigration or any other Thai authority.

I see so it should not matter -- does that mean it doesn't?

[BEVUP]

From what I read & make out

1. They are just clamping down on the monthly deposits to actually show that it is going in every month - This I no doubt would apply to the Deposite/Income route as well

 

2. Looks like a way of proof since some embassies aren't willing to provide Income letters

 

3. Upto June 2019 is a phase in period (there not that worried ), but as from then you would need to show the monthly amounts 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by BEVUP

[onera1961]

53 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The funds (800K) is supposed to come from abroad, but at the moment they do not enforce that.

They assume the funds are coming from abroad. May be some years down the road, they will realize their mistakes when they find out lots of people are working illegally in their wife's somtam making factories ???? 

Edited January 6, 2019 by onera1961

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, steve73 said:

Many pension can be paid 2 or 4-weekly, quarterly, or annually (or possibly other schedules), and if you transfer your own funds (either pensions, rental income, savings, or investment dividends or drawdowns) you can select whatever frequency you wish to optimize exchange rates.

 

If Thai Immigration want to see a MINIMUM monthly income of 65k, then some of these payment schedules will clearly be unsuitable; even the 2-weekly payment may fail in most months with only 2 payments, but averaging out the 3 payments would be sufficient. 

 

But IF Thai Immigration wants to see an AVERAGE monthly income coming into Thailand of 65k, then this can be achieved by ensuring a total of 780k over the preceding year.  This could be achieved by making a single payment of 780k at any time in the year before applying for your extension.

"Average of monthly payments" - and probably worded that way to help with exchange-rate fluctuations.

 

3 hours ago, zydeco said:

I hope you are correct. But how do we explain all this to someone at Chaeng Wattana who has no idea of Labor Day or how SS processes payments early for holidays?

Unless you have a friendly relationship with your IO (and maybe even then), I would keep the money in your passport-country bank, and manually xfer (or automatic, if your bank offers it) - Once at the Beginning of Every Month - the minimum required amount, plus a bit more.  Then, double-check upon receipt by your Thai bank, that the amount sent was over the minimum, and send more immediately if it wasn't so your mo-total is OK.  Also make sure your xfer(s) shows up as a "foreign xfer" by whatever bank-code your bank uses.

 

I Would Not "hope" that an IO will "be reasonable" or "figure it out" if there are 2x payments one mo, and none the next, or some bi-weekly thing that maybe "averages out" ok.   Those ways would probably work "most times" - but "every time" at "every office" - especially offices itching to put you in the agent-fleeced category?  I am thinking of a Phuket IO here - or the marriage-based desk in Jomtien.  Why hand them the rope to hang you?

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I see so it should not matter -- does that mean it doesn't?

No it doesn't.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, JimGant said:

"For retirement extensions of no more than 1 year evidence of average monthly income of B65,000 is required."

"However, it already seems clear that there must be at least 12 transfers in the previous year."

 

Ok, for a Yank, send $2000 per month for 11 months. TransferWise is cheaper per unit for low amounts transfered. Then, at month 12, do a large SWIFT transfer of enough dollars, at the current exchange rate, to arrive at a 780k baht total amount, over 12 months. One large SWIFT fee, 11 relatively cheap TransferWise fees, and an average of 65k baht per month over the previous year prior to retirement.

 

The math works. Not sure about the spirit of the deal.

 

In terms of monthly income based extensions, the SAFEST way clearly is going to be doing at least the required 40K or 65K per month, each and every month during the year from some foreign source.

 

It's possible there will be some averaging allowed, but the quick and dirty translation that leads off this thread is hardly clear on that point, nor is anyone clear on just how Thai Immigration at any given office will respond to the averaging issue.

 

And if it WAS allowed, would it mean still having to do 12 monthly deposits regardless, but the amounts could average out. Or, could a person do 4 quarterly deposits and have those average out?  No one knows, and I wouldn't be one to make presumptions on that topic at this point in the process.

[elviajero]

52 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Any ex pat on a UK old age pension maximum 30,000 baht a month will have to leave.    I wonder how many will be affected  ???   more than these so called wealthy on here realize.    

If they only have a pension of 30K pm they didn’t qualify for the extension using the embassy letter either!

Edited January 6, 2019 by elviajero

[BertM]

12 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Let's hope this is not a prelude to taxing our pensions.

Will never happen. You can put that rumor or worry to bed. They do not have the authority to tax a non-Thai citizen's income from that non-Thai citizen's home country. (In my case the US). Sleep well and not worry...

[onera1961]

43 minutes ago, elviajero said:

That and how they deal with first time applicants was the main issue, and I still haven't heard/seen the official solution.

First timers from the four countries will be forced to 400K/800K or agents.

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Or put 40K in the Thai bank and use the combination of pension and cash.

 

If they only have a pension of 30K pm they didn’t qualify for the extension using the embassy letter either!

yep and I guess that are many married folk with families living quite happily, supporting their Thai families on 15,000 THB per month, living a normal live in the villages who now look like having to desert their families if this proposed ruling is enforced.   Family life means nothing to those in in charge or even many of TV members who have no fundamental understanding of basic Thai living requirements.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

 Folks all this visa tightening and convoluted and complicated rules and requirements that are constantly changing.....IS NO ACCIDENT....

What the end game result they want is open for debate....Do they want some of the farang to leave?....Do they want most of the farang to leave?....Do they want all the farang to leave?.......

 

The only secure visa seems to be the elite visa...

How do some people get through life with such a negative attitude!

 

The Thai authorities have come up with a very easy way for expats — who’s embassy wont verify income — to stay using their income, and yet you/others see it as a negative and that they are trying to get rid of us.

 

If they wanted to get rid of expats they would stop issuing extensions. The majority of foreign nationals now have two ways of proving income. That is the opposite of “tightening”.

Edited January 6, 2019 by elviajero

[wobalt]

Where did I mention anything about seasoning?

Onera1961 stated it, sorry wrong citations


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