CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, garyk said:

With the US and others pulling out. And with the political climate here in S.E. Asia.

If you are going to stay here don't put all your eggs in one basket, have a good exit stratagy.

You guys need to watch out. 

Right now this is a ticking time bomb. 

What only 3 cliches in one post?

 

You left out : Don't burn your bridges

A stitch in Time saves nine

The early bird gets the worm

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

But maybe best from Chicken Little: The sky is falling!!

[scubascuba3]

And now lazy farang retirees have to deal with it.

what makes you think retirees are lazy?

[sometimewoodworker]

45 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

If using the 65,000 Baht monthly going into a Thai bank, does the money have to remain there, or can it be used after deposited?

 

This is suppose to start in 2020 have they changed the rules.?

It has already started. Why do you think it is 2020,

and of course the money can be used it is income after all.????

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, stevo2 said:

The decision by the embassies was in response by demands from immigration for “verification “ letters.

Please don't start that again; this demands exist for many years already, maybe since 1998.

Looks like these few embassies just overreacted when reminded of this point last May. 

 

Edit: From the translation of the Thai document, in post 1:

"due to the fact that embassies of various countries [] have cancelled the issuance of income certification letter"

[mogandave]

 
 
The decision by the embassies was in response by demands from immigration for “verification “ letters.
 
Do they really think the proposed bank letter will give them that ?

Well it will show that retirees at at least able to put their hands on 65K a month, even it they don’t spend it.

[sniggie]

1 minute ago, gk10002000 said:

I plan to return home once or twice each year and each time bring back $10,000 USD which does not require any reporting or paperwork.  Then on occasion use ATM withdrawals for 20K or 30k baht if needed.  I have no desire to setup nor pay for monthly transfers either

Well, as someone who is likely to be affected by the way Kbank reports Transferwise credits and who, like you, brings cash in on my return from UK visits, I am going to have to accept that I will have to change my financial arrangements from the middle of 2019. There will be a cost, using SWIFT interbank transfers on a monthly basis but that's the way it's probably going to be. 

[scubascuba3]

Well, as someone who is likely to be affected by the way Kbank reports Transferwise credits and who, like you, brings cash in on my return from UK visits, I am going to have to accept that I will have to change my financial arrangements from the middle of 2019. There will be a cost, using SWIFT interbank transfers on a monthly basis but that's the way it's probably going to be. 

We could do with a separate thread to discuss the bank side of this, there may be a scrum for opening a Bangkok Bank account

[wgdanson]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

15 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

If you want to 'retire' in Thailand, you may do so from age 50. You cannot retire in UK until you are minimum 55 years old. So the funds you show to Immigration can be from shares, rentals, even still working in UK. As long as the funds come from 'abroad' and are minimum 65k per month, they should satisfy the regulations here. That's the way I see it anyway.

You can retire any age in the UK but the earliest you can withdraw from a private pension is 55, Govt pension 67? Seems to be exceptions if medically signed off

Thank you for that correct info. If you can afford to retire before 50 in UK, I doubt whether a measly 65k will affect you that much.   lol

[alant]

10 minutes ago, stevo2 said:

 

Read the posts !

 

This police order relates to the income method - the rules on ‘money in the bank’ are unchanged.

Help me here please. where does it say the rules on the money in bank remain unchanged?

[glamont002]

Thai Income Tax Issue

In the past if you got an embassy letter saying you had at least 65k Baht in say pension income you were OK for the extension. No actual requirement that the 65k needed to be shown as coming into Thailand each month.

 

New rule must show the deposit in Thai bank each month and get bank letter to certify.

 

Thai personal tax law is a bit peculiar. Foreign income is only subject to Thai income tax if it is remitted into Thailand in the same year it is earned (the the applies to both Thai citizens and expats). The easy way around the tax was to be able to say the monet brought in say in 2018 was actually earned in 2017, thus not taxable. Since money is fungible there would really have been no way for the Revenus Department to challenge such an assertion (other than if you were getting a direct deposit each month from your oversees pension to your Thai account). Many people had there pension deposited in their oversees account and brought it in as needed. But now the pension (or at 65k a month) will need to go direct to your Thai bank account. Can no longer argue it was actually earned in prior year.

 

I wonder how long it will take for the Thai Revenue Department to catch on to this? The Revenue Department, if they were smart, could coordinate with the Immigration Department to to get the retails and amounts of your monthly income sent into Thailand.

 

Could be some nasty surprises ahead if they get smart.......  Another reason to go with the 800k on deposit method!

[Psychic]

Sorry if this has been addressed before but I don't have time to go through the entire thread right now.

 

I got as far as page 7 and there were some reassurances that if you could still get an embassy income letter nothing has changed.

 

Unfortunately, I see nothing in this translation that explicitly says that.

 

I understand that that may have been the intention but without a clear pronouncement I am concerned that when I walk into my local office, shiny new embassy letter in hand I get hit with the all too familiar "new rule this year" at which point it will be too late to put 400K in the bank or show 40K monthly transfers.

 

Have I missed something or is there documentation that says these new regulations augment rather than overrule the existing regulations.

 

Again, sorry if this has been asked and answered already.

[stevo2]

1 minute ago, Psychic said:

Sorry if this has been addressed before but I don't have time to go through the entire thread right now.

 

I got as far as page 7 and there were some reassurances that if you could still get an embassy income letter nothing has changed.

 

Unfortunately, I see nothing in this translation that explicitly says that.

 

I understand that that may have been the intention but without a clear pronouncement I am concerned that when I walk into my local office, shiny new embassy letter in hand I get hit with the all too familiar "new rule this year" at which point it will be too late to put 400K in the bank or show 40K monthly transfers.

 

Have I missed something or is there documentation that says these new regulations augment rather than overrule the existing regulations.

 

Again, sorry if this has been asked and answered already.

 

It has been answered and it was on page 1.

 

Look at the police order, item 3 of the evidence required .

[alant]

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Why is that a concern?

It is a concern to me because that is the method I choose to secure my renewal.

I doubt that my pension, if that was to be the only thing considered with the current x rate trends I doubt that could always guarantee to be of the required amount if that is the only income that can be considered that is.

[mogandave]

This will save some people money and cost some people, but for for the majority of people that met the minimum financial criteria before, it should not be much of an issue.

People that used agents before can continue to use agents.

[Pattaya46]

5 minutes ago, alant said:

Help me here please. where does it say the rules on the money in bank remain unchanged?

Do you look for recipe of pear pie in a book titled "apple pie recipe" ? 

[Dugdown]

Due to the volume of replies to this topic I haven't the time nor inclination to confirm a previous post exists but in case it does not, here is my recent experience.  Please note that this will only apply to US citizens as that is where my experience lays.

 

I made a visit to the US Embassy in Bkk at the end of the year to obtain an income verification letter as backup insurance due to the wild speculation of future requirements at that time and as advised by the UT immigration office.  While there, I inquired about the feasibility of using the blank notarized form to verify income and was told there is nothing preventing that.  It is just a matter of writing in the verbiage as found on the existing income verification form.  This may be a path forward for those who struggle to get funds into a Thai bank.

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

I like to wake up in the morning and think, "today I'm going to buy X for 25k baht". If I don't have the full amount in my Thai bank, it only takes me minutes to put the money in my account. I have lost that convenience if I use TransferWise.

So when was the last time you did that Spidey? 

 

But if you did, you could get money from your UK bank via TransferWise in about 4 to 5 hours.

 

Now get realistic. Nobody, other than the super rich maybe, would behaves like that. So this is a very poor example.

[ttrd]

11 minutes ago, alant said:

Help me here please. where does it say the rules on the money in bank remain unchanged?

It doesnt as only changes are listed meaning the rest are unchanged and remain as it was....

Edited January 8, 2019 by ttrd

[alant]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

Do you look for recipe of pear pie in a book titled "apple pie recipe" ? 

Thank you for such a helpful and well thought out answer.

[onera1961]

28 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Monthly transfers cost money, and of course now require a Thai bank be set up

How else they could have accommodated people who don't have access to embassy letters? When the embassies could not accommodate income letter, how else TI could have  accommodated it is beyond me. Regular transfer is the only solution I can think of. They gave the option to embassies first. And all embassies were OK to accommodate "income letter" as per TI's request except the four. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by onera1961

[Srikcir]

In regard to 2.22.4 (Retirement Document) Certification letter from the bank, what is the format and content required or acceptable?

In the past I have received a one-year printout of my savings account activity from the bank with a bank logo stamp on it - no bank signature nor any certification statement. However, I did receive a receipt for a bank fee for the printout that was initialed.

Obviously a statement printout and receipt are not a "letter."

Can Immigration provide a sample letter? It will be different than a bank letter certifying a Bt400k/800k balance. Or just give Immigration whatever a bank decides is sufficient?

 

 

[SheungWan]

15 hours ago, bdenner said:

Been using Baht Smart for some time now for my AUD transfers. My KBank statements shows these funds coming from a variety of sources. eg.

DUMMY BRANCH

Chang Mia Branch

Head Office

Etc

Nothing actually showing an international transfer.

 

So what now???

Switch to an international transfer method.

[logres212]

16 hours ago, wgdanson said:

You do NOT have to show total monthly income from your rentals, shares or anything. All you need to show is 65k going into a Thai bank account from out of the country. Easy.

So what I can see from this it has to be a pcm deposit of 40/65000 bhat into a Thai bank account. It cannot be an average of that amount over a 12 month period if making quarterly deposits or if you miss or a bit short one month for example. 

[Pattaya46]

10 minutes ago, alant said:

14 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

21 minutes ago, alant said:

Where does it say the rules on the money in bank remain unchanged?

Do you look for a recipe of pear pie in a book titled "apple pie recipes" ? 

Thank you for such a helpful and well thought out answer.

Why didn't you read the TITLE of the document in post 1 ?

"Supporting evidence of income for visa extension //"

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Pattaya46

[dickjones2018]

can we assume that EXPATS have no obligation to be member of Thaivisa

and info on thaivisa is good for us, but if you are not member, you did not read this

 

that the OFFICIAL Thai immigration is not sending us a letter in person by POSTAL MAIL to inform us from the changes and that their official website is horrible outdated

 

conclusion:  Thai immigration owns us another yearly extension when you go for your yearly paperwork/begging show where they can inform us officialy that things has changed and from year +1 from now, there are new rules

 

would that be ok with everybody ?

[jacko45k]

22 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Thank you for that correct info. If you can afford to retire before 50 in UK, I doubt whether a measly 65k will affect you that much.   lol

I would imagine 800k could be achieved too!

Edited January 8, 2019 by jacko45k

[Nyezhov]

9 minutes ago, Dugdown said:

While there, I inquired about the feasibility of using the blank notarized form to verify income and was told there is nothing preventing that.  It is just a matter of writing in the verbiage as found on the existing income verification form.  This may be a path forward for those who struggle to get funds into a Thai bank.

Of course there isnt anything preventing it. The Embassy is obligated to notarize that which you put in front of them.

 

Id be happy to do draft an affidavit in Word for someone to fill in and take to the US Embassy. I dont have to worry myself until 2020

[ocddave]

2 minutes ago, dickjones2018 said:

can we assume that EXPATS have no obligation to be member of Thaivisa

and info on thaivisa is good for us, but if you are not member, you did not read this

 

that the OFFICIAL Thai immigration is not sending us a letter in person by POSTAL MAIL to inform us from the changes and that their official website is horrible outdated

 

conclusion:  Thai immigration owns us another yearly extension when you go for your yearly paperwork/begging show where they can inform us officialy that things has changed and from year +1 from now, there are new rules

 

would that be ok with everybody ?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but like most courts in America seem to imply, "ignorance of the law is not a defense."

[amexpat]

10 hours ago, Spidey said:

I am already with Bangkok bank. I withdraw my money from my CC, in the bank and deposit it in my account immediately. No fees and has the flexibility to put whatever money I need in my account, when I want it, ie immediately. Works for me.

Glad it works for you. No problem.

 

Sidey said:  "it isn't possible for me to prove that it comes from a foreign source".

[Acharn]

At last. It is now a lot easier to make transfers from the U.S. to Thailand. I have reasons not to want to make direct deposit to the Bangkok Bank branch in New York, but wire transfers turn out to be much less expensive than I thought, and there are several companies called Automated Clearing Houses (ACH) that are quite cheap, but they take at least a day. One I've seen mentioned by another TV member is Transferwise. He said he had been using it for years and was quite happy with it. Google on "automated clearing houses." I learned about ACHs from my credit union in the States as a possible alternative to wire transfers. There are several such companies. My credit union has no provision for recurring transfers (I presume because of American laws and regulations to prevent money laundering), and I would have to telephone them every month to make the transfer. 

On the question of whether those using the money in bank account method, I am not an official source but the official letter says "...the bureau has adjusted requirements of evidence of income for visa extension." As a former bureaucrat I believe you can be confident the procedures for lump sum in bank account have not changed.