CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[alohatodon2]

I am getting conflicting reports on income transferred to a bank in Bankgok in 2019.   First, it was 35,000, then 40,000 and now  65,000 baht.  Which is the actual/real amount under the new law for an unmarried individual?

[billd766]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Farang 1: How many farang does it take to change a light bulb?

Farang 2: I don't know -- I'll ask my agent and get back to you

Is it a light bulb at TransferWise?

[theoldgit]

23 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I used TW this week to test it.   The money was withdrawn and paid to TW on my bank's transaction.  TW receipt shows the money was transferred to Bangkok Bank.   Bangkok Bank statement in my Saving Account Book shows an international transfer.  I don't know what your problem is but I can do that 12 times a year with more than 65,000 baht with no problem.   

I suppose that people who don't already have an account with Bangkok Bank, and wish to rely on the fact that at the moment TW deposits show up as an International Transfer/Deposit with them, could open an account there and hope that they continue to log international deposits as for the next twelve months, and/or that TW continue to use  Bangkok Bank.

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

1 hour ago, jimn said:

Its why for the very first time and I hate to say it, but using an agent in Pattaya for 12,900 baht all in may be my best option.

That was immigration's plan, all along. //

Seriously 

If it was the plan, they would just have take the opportunity of these few embassies stopping letter to stop them for all embassies.

 

And for those who think about using agents, what would happen if a mini-crackdown on agents happens just when you need them? You will have no proof of income, no 800k in the bank... No extension. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, alohatodon2 said:

I am getting conflicting reports on income transferred to a bank in Bankgok in 2019.   First, it was 35,000, then 40,000 and now  65,000 baht.  Which is the actual/real amount under the new law for an unmarried individual?

 

The required income amounts have not changed -- at least 40K per month for a marriage extension of stay, and at least 65K per month for a retirement extension of stay.

 

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

8 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Farang 1: How many farang does it take to change a light bulb?

Farang 2: I don't know -- I'll ask my agent and get back to you

Is it a light bulb at TransferWise?

I don't know but soon you-know-who will be saying maybe the top honchos at Transferwise in Estonia (yes Estonia) are being bribed with free vacations to Phuket by the big agents in Thailand to screw up any 65K+ transfer

[alohatodon2]

TallBob...you needn't be so harsh.  I was just asking a question.  If income has always been slightly below 65,000 baht.....with no problem at Immigration, I can only assume it will now be actually enforced.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

an agent in Pattaya for 12,900 baht all in may be my best option.

I assume that's the price to pay when you don't have what T.I. is requesting.

 

I can have a L.o.I. at the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya, I transfer monthly the equivalent of 75000+ ThB to my Thai bank account.

 

I am 70+, lazy, tired.

 

I wish an agent could do all the necessary steps for me for a " fair " price.

[steve73]

2 minutes ago, alohatodon2 said:

I am getting conflicting reports on income transferred to a bank in Bankgok in 2019.   First, it was 35,000, then 40,000 and now  65,000 baht.  Which is the actual/real amount under the new law for an unmarried individual?

It has always been 65k bt/mon of income for an unmarried individual, unless combining it with seasoned savings in a Thai bank. (I.e. if you have, say, 440k in seasoned savings, then you only need to prove 30kbt/mon in income.)

The difference now is that if your embassy is unable/unwilling to provide you an income letter, you must now deposit the required income EVERY month into a Thai bank from overseas.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Seriously 

If it was the plan, they would just have take the opportunity of these few embassies stopping letter to stop them for all embassies.

 

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, it's only coincidental that 3 of the 4 Embassies that stopped issuing income letters after some interplay with Thai Immigration happen to be those representing the absolute largest Western expat populations here in Thailand (Brits #1, Americans #2, Aussies high on the list).  Or, maybe it's not coincidental at all!!!

Edited January 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JackThompson]

10 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

it will be the bank, with their letter that confirms that the credits are from a foreign source, not TI interpreting the myriad different codes.

 

Agreed.  The code just lets you know if your transfer qualifies to be on the letter from your bank, or will not - in which case, it is useless for purposes of the bank's letter you need to get your extension. 

 

If short on funds for playing transfer-roulette, maybe one could send the money back, then re-transfer it again, and hope you get an international-code the next time.

 

8 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Secondly a T/W transaction can easily be verified as a foreign credit by presenting the transaction slip.

I don't think the bank is going to hand-code each transaction-history letter, to manually change domestic-transfers to foreign-transfers, based on a printout the customer made at home.  In fact, I don't think they will be manually editing the letters at all.  They will likely just print a list of foreign-transactions for the last 12-months and stamp/certify it as genuine.

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Secondly a T/W transaction can easily be verified as a foreign credit by presenting the transaction slip.

 

Sorry, your point null and void

Can be verified- yes but one needs to present 12 pieces of verification to the IO.   I can see the wave of the hand now- no can accept- put 800K in the bank.  Transferwise is a cheap system but it doesn't work well because  they are using 3 different banks in Thailand and some of the transactions will show as domestic transfers.  If the IO is willing to accept the other various pieces of paper that one will need to prove international transfers- that will help.

 

I and others can prove their income stream with a few pieces of paper right now. IO doesn't believe it?- Show the foreign debit card connected to a foreign bank- one sheet of paper- absolute proof.  No bank books- numerous sheets from transfer wise- getting bank books updated-on and on...

 

Ever wonder why the 800K/400K bank method can be deposited locally without any transfer from abroad. Think about it?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Quote

 

I don't think the bank is going to hand-code each transaction-history letter, to manually change domestic-transfers to foreign-transfers, based on a printout the customer made at home.  In fact, I don't think they will be manually editing the letters at all.  They will likely just print a list of foreign-transactions for the last 12-months and stamp/certify it as genuine.

 

 

We really don't know for sure yet... But I highly doubt any of the Thai banks other than BKKB are going to take the time to manually sort thru a person's TFW transfers, which their own systems have listed as domestic, and somehow agree to record them as international because the person brings a stack full of TFW receipts.

 

In all likelihood, you'll get whatever the bank's system gives you. If a particular bank's systems record a TFW deposit as a domestic one, that's how it will show on your bank book, and I'd guess the bank would be unlikely to issue a bank letter saying you had the required 12 monthly foreign transfers.

 

Right now, BKKB is one of the few Thai banks, and maybe the ONLY one, that records TFW transfers as FOREIGN.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Olmate]

14 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

Firstly Olmate, it will be the bank, with their letter that confirms that the credits are from a foreign source, not TI interpreting the myriad different codes.

 

Secondly a T/W transaction can easily be verified as a foreign credit by presenting the transaction slip.

 

Sorry, your point null and void.

Sorry too but your incorrect on both points you make..Regularly noted by others posters ....Bank letter confirms you, your account details etc... Not the transaction record. TW slips will likely not be accepted by TI, only statement or passbook correctly updated showing FET coding. Please let everyone else know if not the case!

[losworld]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, it's only coincidental that 3 of the 4 Embassies that stopped issuing income letters after some interplay with Thai Immigration happen to be those representing the absolute largest Western expat populations here in Thailand (Brits #1, Americans #2, Aussies high on the list).  Or, maybe it's not coincidental at all!!!

I wonder if it is not related to the fact that these countries spoke out about not having an elected government?

Edited January 11, 2019 by losworld

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

And for those who think about using agents, what would happen if a mini-crackdown on agents happens just when you need them? You will have no proof of income, no 800k in the bank... No extension. 

Agree on that - and possibly even bringing into question existing extensions.  That's why I use a corruption-free Visa from the MFA, instead.

 

But, I do think a crackdown is unlikely, given how far up that money must go for it to be advertised in public without a crackdown for so many years.  Then, recently, the head of imm claimed the IOs couldn't tell the money was faked, when all they'd have to do is check seasoning.

[Pib]

25 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

And for those who think about using agents, what would happen if a mini-crackdown on agents happens just when you need them? You will have no proof of income, no 800k in the bank... No extension. 

Yeap....that would always be a fear of mine if I was using agent "because of inadequate income" and I knew the agent was basically submitting some fraudulent paperwork to prove income...providing money under the table to some bank employee and/or immigration officer to get my annual extension approved.  

 

Would hate to use that approach unless I absolutely had no other choice or just didn't give a sh&t if I got caught.  But I'm no saint....I freely admit if I didn't have adequate income and staying in Thailand was important to me I would go the agent route along with the attitude of "not really wanting to know how the agent makes it happen...have plausible deniability."  But fortunately I don't have to use an agent as I use the Bt800K in the bank method.

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, losworld said:

I wonder if it is not related to the fact that these countries spoke out about non elected governments?

Perhaps.  I wanted to throttle the US-loudmouths, who basically *%# on our heads by doing that - all while helping overthrow democratically-elected and/or popular govts whenever it suits them for decades.  I could see the Thais not taking kindly to loudmouth-hypocrites pointing fingers, and found their response remarkably reserved.

On the other hand, it's clear by policy our govts want many of us to move somewhere else - in the Philippines, the UK even allows pension-increases, or maybe Vietnam, where Americans curiously get 1-year ME visas now. 

 

I find it curious that Canada did not follow suit.  May have to do with who is aligning with the Euro/UN faction, vs the "Independent Nations" faction.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yeap....that would always be a fear of mine if I was using agent "because of inadequate income" and I knew the agent was basically submitting some fraudulent paperwork to prove income...providing money under the table to some bank employee and/or immigration officer to get my annual extension approved.  

 

 

I can't speak for all the countries involved... But my impression is the 12 monthly transfers into Thailand route is going to be a mess for a lot of folks on retirement extensions (and maybe not so much for those on marriage extensions).

 

Re the 65,000 amount for retirement extensions:

--my impression is a lot of government retirement pensions from the U.S., Britain and Australia alone don't necessarily meet that 65K amount.

--then there's the issue that not all government pension providers will do direct deposits into Thailand, and even if a person's pension provider does, the amount may not be enough.

--so then a person is left having to arrange foreign transfers on their own, probably manually, each and every month, and having to pay foreign transfer fees each and every time. And perhaps having to first combine their government pension amount with other income sources in order to get to the 65K.

--and then, as many have noted, not all income sources are paid regularly on a monthly basis -- some are quarterly or biweekly or other intervals, which means more financial juggling to get to the right and required amount each and every month.

 

Obviously, for the wealthy, those kinds of complications will be surmountable. But for folks who may meet the income requirement but pretty much live month to month off incoming pensions or other income, it's going to be a challenge.

 

 

--

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Perhaps, just perhaps, it's only coincidental that 3 of the 4 Embassies that stopped issuing income letters after some interplay with Thai Immigration happen to be those representing the absolute largest Western expat populations here in Thailand (Brits #1, Americans #2, Aussies high on the list).  Or, maybe it's not coincidental at all!!!

 

This is one of the very few times that I do believe the Thai side. The concept of an affidavit / sworn statement instead of providing an official with documents they can verify clearly is alien to them. That's why, in this particular case, citizens of countries having procedures more in line with Thailand's have an advantage over citizens from those countries that discontinued the letters. I don't think there's any nefarious agenda.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Caldera
Typo

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The rule BEFORE was you had to have 65,000 baht of income, but you didn't have to show it arriving into Thailand each and every month. It could stay entirely in home country accounts and be spent here by ATM withdrawals, debit or credit card transactions, etc etc...  And that was FULLY and HONESTLY complying with the rules.

 

It seems you don't know what all the rules were, and are, as you've entirely omitted the rule about the income affidavit from your embassy. If your embassy still offers the letter, then you can comply with that rule now. If not, then you have the new option of proven int'l transfers. It's a red herring to chant that these don't prove your income. Nor do the embassy affidavits. The point is that TI also now defines the transfers + bank letter as the evidence of your income.

 

Quote

NOW, for those without Embassy income letters relying on monthly income, the money has to be transferred monthly into Thailand and deposited into a Thai bank regardless. Doesn't matter if you need all of that amount or not.

 

Yup. But you've conveniently omitted the combo method that allows anyone to transfer the amount normally needed, with appropriate seasoned balance in a bank account--which can also be spent after the extension is granted. 

 

It's nice of you to note that the new rule may mean less convenience for those without the income affidavits from their embassies. It's about time after all these pages that somebody said that! FINALLY. Of course, for some it's actually more convenient and cheaper as well, another omission.  Now that we finally got that out, shall we move on? 

Edited January 11, 2019 by BigStar

[mogandave]

You still don't need the required income.  The only thing they have done is make life more difficult for the honest people 

A little harder for the honest people, a lot harder for the cheaters.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, BigStar said:

It seems you don't know what all the rules were, and are, as you've entirely omitted the rule about the income affidavit from your embassy.

 

 

1. I specifically mentioned the new monthly transfers into Thai bank aspect applied for people WITHOUT Embassy income letters. (Who, BTW, are now three of the largest western expat groups in Thailand).
 

Quote

 

NOW, for those without Embassy income letters relying on monthly income, the money has to be transferred monthly into Thailand and deposited into a Thai bank regardless.

 

 

2. The combo method is only available for retirement extensions, not for marriage extensions. So it's not, as you said, available to "anyone."

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mogandave]

Why dont they just say that there has to be 65k in your bank on the 1st of each month. Why the money has to be expensively sent from abroad escapes me. Keep the 800k seasoning method if they want. For me the 7 months I am here I just bring in a load of cash and exchange it weekly as required and use my no fee Haifax Clarity Mastercard for food shopping, cinema and eating out. Thailand is years behind the Western world where cash is gradually being superceeded. Problem is they expect everyone else to be the same.

Not anymore

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

 

Firstly Olmate, it will be the bank, with their letter that confirms that the credits are from a foreign source, not TI interpreting the myriad different codes.

 

Secondly a T/W transaction can easily be verified as a foreign credit by presenting the transaction slip.

 

Sorry, your point null and void.

You seem to know something that I don't know.  How do you know the bank letter will prove that the monthly deposits were made by international transfer and above a minimum threshold.

There are a number of people on this board who seem to think it's very likely that the bank letter for the monthly deposit method will be exactly the same as the bank letter for the seasoned lump sum method.

If you're not familiar with the bank letter as it currently exists, let me share my experience having used five bank letters from two different banks (Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank).  My bank letter states the name of the account holder, the account number, the balance as of the letter date, date of the letter, the signature of an authorized bank employee, and bank stamp.  Note that it does not contain any information whatsoever that would establish that I have maintained a balance of greater than 800,000 baht for a period of three months.  That evidence is supplied solely by a required bank statement of at least three months duration.  I also have the bank passbook with me when I apply for my retirement extension.

The monthly deposit method could, in fact, utilize this same bank letter.  In that case, the proof of compliance with the requirements would be borne entirely by a 12-month bank statement signed and stamped by the bank.  Visual inspection of the bank statement by the IO (as is done currently for the seasoned lump sum method) would determine if the requirement of monthly deposits above a certain threshold from international transfer has been met or not.

I have no idea whether the way you think the letter will be written is right, or the way I think the letter will be written is right.  How do you?

[mogandave]

It has always been 65k bt/mon of income for an unmarried individual, unless combining it with seasoned savings in a Thai bank. (I.e. if you have, say, 440k in seasoned savings, then you only need to prove 30kbt/mon in income.)
The difference now is that if your embassy is unable/unwilling to provide you an income letter, you must now deposit the required income EVERY month into a Thai bank from overseas.

Really?

When did that start?

[mogandave]

I wonder if it is not related to the fact that these countries spoke out about not having an elected government?

That’s got to be it!!!!

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

 

Firstly Olmate, it will be the bank, with their letter that confirms that the credits are from a foreign source, not TI interpreting the myriad different codes.

 

Secondly a T/W transaction can easily be verified as a foreign credit by presenting the transaction slip.

 

Sorry, your point null and void.

 

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Sorry too but your incorrect on both points you make..Regularly noted by others posters ....Bank letter confirms you, your account details etc... Not the transaction record. TW slips will likely not be accepted by TI, only statement or passbook correctly updated showing FET coding. Please let everyone else know if not the case!

This a circular argument that just keeps going round and round. So here I go one last time.

 

The T/W transaction slip could be used to satisfy the bank that the transaction on your statement is a genuine foreign remittance, when requesting the letter.

 

And here's something to ponder. Many UK government pensions that are paid directly to Thai banks use Citycorp or Citybank to handle them on their behalf. They also show up as domestic deposits. How is the bank and the client going to deal with that one?

 

Yes, there are quite a number of issues and there will be teething problems for sure.

 

But it wasn't so long ago that many folks were adamant that we would never see income based extensions again. Where are they now? Or have they all morphed  from 'won't happen' to 'can't happen because........'?

[SPREX]

20 minutes ago, skatewash said:

You seem to know something that I don't know.  How do you know the bank letter will prove that the monthly deposits were made by international transfer and above a minimum threshold.

There are a number of people on this board who seem to think it's very likely that the bank letter for the monthly deposit method will be exactly the same as the bank letter for the seasoned lump sum method.

If you're not familiar with the bank letter as it currently exists, let me share my experience having used five bank letters from two different banks (Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank).  My bank letter states the name of the account holder, the account number, the balance as of the letter date, date of the letter, the signature of an authorized bank employee, and bank stamp.  Note that it does not contain any information whatsoever that would establish that I have maintained a balance of greater than 800,000 baht for a period of three months.  That evidence is supplied solely by a required bank statement of at least three months duration.  I also have the bank passbook with me when I apply for my retirement extension.

The monthly deposit method could, in fact, utilize this same bank letter.  In that case, the proof of compliance with the requirements would be borne entirely by a 12-month bank statement signed and stamped by the bank.  Visual inspection of the bank statement by the IO (as is done currently for the seasoned lump sum method) would determine if the requirement of monthly deposits above a certain threshold from international transfer has been met or not.

I have no idea whether the way you think the letter will be written is right, or the way I think the letter will be written is right.  How do you?

Sorry i do not read same to many people !!!!!! look and think why the formulation have been fully changed with actual Command order No 138/2557 dated 7 July 2014  I am fully stupefy of interpretation No 138/2557 dated 7 July 2014

 2.18 In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted 
children, or spouse’s children): 
 Procedure 

 

Evidence showing income not less than 65 000 Bahts Monthly Includes:

 

Evidence showing pension a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank The Statement of showing Money Transfer from Overseas Every most for the past 12 months.

 

Except in case where the Applicant’s retirement is less than 1 year, the evidence must be from the month of retirement.

For Example,

The Retirement is started in October 2018, the applicant must Show Pension Payment evidence from November 2018 and Pension payment evidence of the whole 12 months is required for the next year. or;

2) income certification certified by the Embassy or consular

 

 

 

Actual order FULLY DIFFERENT !!! 

2.18 In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted 
children, or spouse’s children): 

 

(1) The alien must have been granted a non ­immigrant visa (NON­-IM). 
(2) The alien must have proof of relationship. 
(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto: or 
(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children, adopted
children, or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age except in case of the person hereof is of illness or disability and cannot live without support of father or mother: or 
(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income
of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds 
no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year. 
            In case the father of mother requests to be under maintenance of children, the age
father or mother must be 50 years of age or over. 
           For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of 
Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a 
case ­by ­case basis. 
 (6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average an
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in 
bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year. 
 

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by SPREX

[BigStar]

40 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

1. I specifically mentioned the new monthly transfers into Thai bank aspect applied for people WITHOUT Embassy income letters. 

 

NOT in the paragraph I quoted that claimed "FULLY" complying--w/o mention of the letter. The HONESTLY appears to have evoked some disagreement as to interpretation. Did you HONESTLY sign an affidavit and HONESTLY present it to TI? Oh, yes. ???? And some can still do so. For the others, it's water under the bridge now.

 

Quote

2. The combo method is only available for retirement extensions, not for marriage extensions. So it's not, as you said, available to "anyone."

And the context of that little discussion was for retirement extensions. ???? Yawn.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by BigStar