CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, Olmate said:

That’s your opinion, but others who may or may not agree still have their views, and should not be dismissed as merely talking up agents. 

Why try and turn this into an agent advice thread?  You are even advising a guy to try and find an agent in America. 

 

6 minutes ago, Olmate said:

That’s your opinion, but others who may or may not agree still have their views, and should not be dismissed as merely talking up agents. 

This thread is about what you need for a retirement or marriage extension not how to beat the system with illegal activity. 

[sumrit]

4 hours ago, roger101 said:

I have just emailed Transferwise to ask them what the code would show from a transfer from the UK. It will be interesting to see their reply.

Changing slightly one of the things overlooked is spending in the UK. Using the income letter (for many years) my net income is well over the 65000 baht/month needed. But after taking income tax and other commitments I'm left with (at the moment) 68,000 Baht a month. It doesnt take a genius to work out that any problem at home could bring my Thai Income to less than 65000 for a few months.

I asked Transferwise a similar question in a questionaire they had on their website yesterday. I actually asked if there was an option of requesting that money be transferred using the Bangkok Bank because they show its an International Transfer whereas using other clearing routes, such as TMB, show it as an domestic transfer. I haven't had a reply yet.

 

[DrJack54]

You have to LOVE a thread, subject being ...."here is exactly what is needed".... Ha. 85 pages later. Just for fun I looked in my bankbook earlier specifically to look at deposit I transfered into KTB. Transfer via OFX. (same as tw, better in iho)

Anyway the code is RNSDT. 

I googled etc etc. No code recognized. But that's not the point. Don't get me wrong, I use TV a LOT. Esp advice from guys like ubon. More to the point. I travel a lot in los. Never ceases to amaze me how many expats are completely unaware of changes. Not just this one. Thinking 2019 could be a nightmare for many. 

[keithet]

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

... and which bank that particular TW transfer happens to go though - which can change from one to the next, even from the same origin and destination accounts.

Yes, banks transaction coding will vary for each bank unlike swift coding which is industry standard

This week I did my first transfer from my US bank to Kbank using swift. 

My Kbank statement says recieved domestic transfer. I tried asking why and I guess it bounces from a middle bank then to my account. 

My US bank statement says international transfer sent but Kbank statement says domestic transfer recieved. 

Not sure what to do for my 12 deposits if they are going to say domestic? 

[JLCrab]

7 hours ago, Olmate said:

Why not cover all the options, get the agent to submit your bona fide renewal via bank/combo method in the US? 

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977 (FCPA) (15 U.S.C. § 78dd-1, et seq.) is a United States federal law known primarily for two of its main provisions: one that addresses accounting transparency requirements under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 and another concerning bribery of foreign officials.
 

[scubascuba3]

This week I did my first transfer from my US bank to Kbank using swift. 
My Kbank statement says recieved domestic transfer. I tried asking why and I guess it bounces from a middle bank then to my account. 
My US bank statement says international transfer sent but Kbank statement says domestic transfer recieved. 
Not sure what to do for my 12 deposits if they are going to say domestic? 

According to all threads prior to a week or two ago we could get an FET from receiving bank if using swift. So maybe try that for starters

[Olmate]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977 (FCPA) (15 U.S.C. § 78dd-1, et seq.) is a United States federal law known primarily for two of its main provisions: one that addresses accounting transparency requirements under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 and another concerning bribery of foreign officials.
 

Bona fide ,no bribery, no corruption, no sense of humour !

[Olmate]

11 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Why try and turn this into an agent advice thread?  You are even advising a guy to try and find an agent in America. 

 

This thread is about what you need for a retirement or marriage extension not how to beat the system with illegal activity. 

The guy you refer to I hope has a better sense of humour than you !

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, keithet said:

This week I did my first transfer from my US bank to Kbank using swift. 

My Kbank statement says recieved domestic transfer. I tried asking why and I guess it bounces from a middle bank then to my account. 

My US bank statement says international transfer sent but Kbank statement says domestic transfer recieved. 

Not sure what to do for my 12 deposits if they are going to say domestic? 

I thought it might be worthwhile re-posting this comment on this thread, as it hopefully provides some reassurance re. proving that the income paid into a Thai bank comes from abroad - when using swift.

 

"I went to SCB this a.m. to find out about obtaining bank statements, ask whether income is shown as an International transfer etc.

The lady I spoke to didn't really understand the possible problem re. being able to prove that incoming money was coming from abroad (and didn't really care much either.....), BUT - I pointed to one of my incoming transfers to ask whether they were able to confirm that it was an international transfer, and she printed out a page headed 'Advice for customer - inward transfer'.

The page shows that the remittance was in GBP, 'Details of Payment' shows 'Transfer from NatWest' and 'Remittance Type' shows 'Inward Swift'.  All of which seems to be enough to prove that it was an International transfer to SCB.

Of course the latest arrangements re. providing proof of income for Immigration is very new at the moment, but I'm sure that over the next few months banks will find out what is required by Immigration and be able to come up with the necessary documentation as required by Immigration."

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Bona fide ,no bribery, no corruption, no sense of humour !

Horse dung -- If an IO big shot executes a waiver of extension requirements per the rights granted to him/her via Section 35 of the Immigration Act 2522, the fee is that in the Ministerial Regulations which is 1900 baht.

 

Anything else beyond that is a bribe.

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Horse dung -- If an IO big shot executes a waiver of extension requirements per the rights granted to him/her via Section 35 of the Immigration Act 2522, the fee is that in the Ministerial Regulations which is 1900 baht.

 

Anything else beyond that is a bribe.

You obviously missed my reference to ,bona fide, actually an attempt at humour,....my bad ....even missed by another anti agent poster!

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic inflammatory posts have been removed. 

[wgdanson]

15 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Many people don't have sufficient pension and rely on bonds shares and other income which may not be paid monthly, the rules should and I believe do provide for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

That's exactly what I was meaning. Only 40k a month, then top up when you can.

[farangx]

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You have to LOVE a thread, subject being ...."here is exactly what is needed".... Ha. 85 pages later. Just for fun I looked in my bankbook earlier specifically to look at deposit I transfered into KTB. Transfer via OFX. (same as tw, better in iho)

Anyway the code is RNSDT. 

I googled etc etc. No code recognized. But that's not the point. Don't get me wrong, I use TV a LOT. Esp advice from guys like ubon. More to the point. I travel a lot in los. Never ceases to amaze me how many expats are completely unaware of changes. Not just this one. Thinking 2019 could be a nightmare for many. 

Bank books show only the internal codes used by the banks.  If you did a SWIFT transaction, that information will be relayed to bank(s) in the chain. This your bank here will know if asked, otherwise it is obviously not.

 

[bigginhill]

On 1/8/2019 at 4:09 PM, tracy3eyes said:

Many thanks. Still a bit of a headache. Although I have a net pension of well over £2k a month I keep a number of homes and commitments, and I am also often outside of Thailand during a year so being able to do the 65k a month is still not easy. Accessing just the funds I need via ATM when in Thailand was more appropriate for me. So the income letter which I used to get from the Embassy worked best for me and I have a genuine pension and always provided Pension Letter from provider, P60 and bank statements. So the changes make life difficult for those who are not cheating the system and have been in Thai for 15 years! Also previously I dad my own Thai company, paid taxes and provided jobs etc but have to suffer because of these changes. And I am not in a position to transfer 65K this and next month due to ongoing important commitments. So I may well be buggered.

 

I do not understand why they would not accept documents like P60's, Letters from Pension provider etc surely this is proof enough. Whats also annoying is the fact that I have had 10 million going through my Thai banks in the last 10 years. All tide up in property in Thai and Spain at the moment.

 

So if I cannot get a renewal in Sept I will give up! And go elsewhere as I suspect many others will or have to.

 

TI are hurting the very people they should be securing as good long standing genuine retirees.

 

Nevermind!

have you considered registering for a thai tax number and declaring a rent from your property, then making the deposits on your account. From what I have read the thai income would be considered.

 

[bigginhill]

On 1/9/2019 at 4:36 AM, skatewash said:

I may be wrong about this but my IO has never expressed an interest in where my 800,000 baht comes from.  I'm not sure for the money-in-the-bank (for a 3-month seasoning period) method that it has to originate overseas or more accurately that they check this. To be clear, mine does originate overseas but I don't believe I've ever shown the IO anything that shows this.

In any case, it appears you're taking a belt and suspenders approach to getting your extension (by meeting the requirements of both methods).  As someone else on here has said the money-in-the-bank method is really the gold standard for getting extensions of stay in that it's the easiest one to show and everyone (applicants and IOs) has experience with doing it.  Additionally, nothing about that method is changing this year.

You may find that when you go into the IO and the officer sees that you meet the requirements for the money-in-the-bank method (800,000 for three months) he may insist on using that method because it's easiest for him to verify.  Much easier to verify the balance doesn't drop below 800,000 for three months than that all the monthly international transfers have occurred as needed over the last year.  Also, this year, 2019, most applicants aren't going to be able to technically meet the 12 months of deposits and are going to have to be granted some leeway in meeting the requirement with fewer months than are actually required.  Given that if you do what you plan as stated above I would think the IO would go with the method that you completely satisfy rather than using the new monthly transfer method for which you would have to be granted relief for not having the full 12 months.

 

If it were me, I think I would go with the 800,000 in the bank method in 2019 and if you wanted to in 2020 when all the dust has settled on the new method give it a try then.  All the kinks should be worked out by then.  The format of the bank letter that immigration wants to see.  The understanding of which transaction codes are acceptable for proving an international transfer.  Whether there's any flexibility for missing a single monthly transfer, whether it has to be over 65,000 baht per month or whether it's acceptable for only the average to be over 65,000 baht per month.  Lots of unanswered questions that should have answers by the time 2020 rolls around.

 

In any case, nothing wrong with what you're planning to do, but maybe a bit of unnecessary work mucking about with the monthly transfers.  I believe everyone is expecting there to be no changes in the tried-and-true money-in-the-bank method, at least I am ????

I think that the opposite tactic is better, not to produce the 800,000 route as you have it and know it would be accepted, but to produce the deposits, and see if it is accepted. It's a learning curve, otherwise you will never know without going out on a limb. If they refuse it then pull out the 800,000..

 

[bigginhill]

On 1/9/2019 at 4:46 AM, ubonjoe said:

That is in the clause for extensions of stay based upon marriage. The tax payment is the proof of income needed if the 40k baht income is from working here.

would that not count for retirement extension? Income from rentals in Thailand.

[elviajero]

16 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

On 1/9/2019 at 3:46 AM, ubonjoe said:

That is in the clause for extensions of stay based upon marriage. The tax payment is the proof of income needed if the 40k baht income is from working here.

would that not count for retirement extension? Income from rentals in Thailand.

No.

 

Only if you were employed by a business paying you at least 40K pm.

[bigginhill]

On 1/11/2019 at 9:08 AM, Pib said:

I do it all the time...that is, use of my foreign debit card to do a counter withdrawal (a.k.a., cash advance) and have that withdrawal deposited directly into my account.  But it gets coded as a domestic deposit.

 

It's kinda like a combo transaction (but it's really two transactions).  The money never touches my hands or the bank clerk hands.  The clerk actually does two transactions: Step 1 - does the cash advance transaction which puts the withdrawn money into kinda of a holding pattern...probably put in central account for a few minutes.  I do get a receipt at that times just like any other receipt you get when making a purchase, doing an ATM withdrawal, etc.  And then Step 2 (really a separate transaction from Step 1) - deposits the money from that holding pattern to my account a few minutes minutes later which shows as any other domestic deposit.  During step 2 the clerk prepares a deposit slip and has me sign it....then the clerk finalizes the deposit to my account...we are done.

 

I doubt a person could convince the bank to code that two-step combo transaction as an "international deposit/transfer."  Expect the same if you had withdrawn the money from an ATM within the branch and then immediately deposited it at the counter.   But "This Is Thailand" and maybe a bank branch here and there would do it if asked nicely. 

 

I can only say my combo transaction gets coded as a domestic deposit...whether I've done the counter withdrawal at Krungsri Bank or Bangkok Bank.  But the next time I do a counter cash advance (still months away) I do plan to ask the question.  I figure the worst that could result is a "no-can-do" answer....gotta be coded as a domestic deposit....have a nice day.

 

For work I use a handy little POS credit/debit card reader, inexpensive, small, works in conjunction with your mobile, via bluetooth and app. Costs 20 euro, called Sumup. You buy it outright and pay commission on the transactions, very convenient especially if you have few transactions.

You have to send the company a copy of your document and bank details (iban etc) that have to have the same name as the document provided. 

So working on these details how would this work... instead of going into the bank with your credit card you put it into your own personal POS and send it to your thai account?

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, bigginhill said:

For work I use a handy little POS credit/debit card reader, inexpensive, small, works in conjunction with your mobile, via bluetooth and app. Costs 20 euro, called Sumup. You buy it outright and pay commission on the transactions, very convenient especially if you have few transactions.

You have to send the company a copy of your document and bank details (iban etc) that have to have the same name as the document provided. 

So working on these details how would this work... instead of going into the bank with your credit card you put it into your own personal POS and send it to your thai account?

 

After you buy the device (their website $69 USD) there is a 2.65% charge per transaction according their website.  That would be on top of whatever foreign transaction fee your card-issuing bank might apply.  And the payout to your bank account is 2-3 business days.

https://sumup.com/

 

My current credit/debit cards are no foreign transaction fee cards....I'll take 0% over 2.65% and immediate deposit to my Thai bank account versus a 2 to 3 business day payout any day.  

 

But for some small businesses I expect Sumup would work out just fine to collect payments for services/products.

 

 

 

 

[bigginhill]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

After you buy the device (their website $69 USD) there is a 2.65% charge per transaction according their website.  That would be on top of whatever foreign transaction fee your card-issuing bank might apply.  And the payout to your bank account is 2-3 business days.

https://sumup.com/

 

My current credit/debit cards are no foreign transaction fee cards....I'll take 0% over 2.65% and immediate deposit to my Thai bank account versus a 2 to 3 business day payout any day.  

 

But for some small businesses I expect Sumup would work out just fine to collect payments for services/products.

 

 

 

 

uk site  is alot cheaper https://sumup.co.uk/  and 1.69% commission.  

I agree about te 2 to 3 days, but if it is you both on the receiving end and the paying end, then your expenses will be only the commissions paid by the recieving end. 

Also the discussion started as if I go into  bank and withdraw cash using my card deposit it on my account would it result as foreign

deposit, to which the answer was no. 

Would this work as a foreign deposit? Always? (unlike trasferwise) And could it be cheaper in costs than a swift?

Also I'm guessing having a thai credit card (secured or not) ( even debit card as it works with both)  and 2 sumups it would be possibile to return excess to the foreign account in the same way.   

looking at some of the transactions on 411 euro there was a deduction of 8 euro, American express.

On 160 euro  3.12 euro. mastercard.

On 189 euro  4.69  visa.

 

Price on site for the pos is nearly always discounted to 19.99 pounds or euro ( italy with 1.95% commission).

 

Guess it's not convenient  65,000 x 1.96 = 1274 Baht, but am I right in thinking it would secure the  foreign code needed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

9 hours ago, farangx said:

Bank books show only the internal codes used by the banks.  If you did a SWIFT transaction, that information will be relayed to bank(s) in the chain. This your bank here will know if asked, otherwise it is obviously not.

 

Why would I do a swift. I used OFX. Similar to TW. Both of which are costly. All the income method folk are spending/wasting lot p.a. That's their business. Most of this thread has been about income streams such as USA social security. Pensions. Disability pension payments etc. Would be interesting to know what % actually live in los just bringing in money as needed. Might be from income streams eg rentals, stock, list is long. Or could be those with superannuation funds well over mill USD. Are Thai banks going to check all the total incomes (checked os transfers) and sign off on that? NO.

Will imm officers NO. 

Good luck with income method. And yes I did read thread where member did it successfully. Just waiting for sh""hit fan. 

[farangx]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Why would I do a swift. I used OFX. Similar to TW. Both of which are costly. All the income method folk are spending/wasting lot p.a. That's their business. Most of this thread has been about income streams such as USA social security. Pensions. Disability pension payments etc. Would be interesting to know what % actually live in los just bringing in money as needed. Might be from income streams eg rentals, stock, list is long. Or could be those with superannuation funds well over mill USD. Are Thai banks going to check all the total incomes (checked os transfers) and sign off on that? NO.

Will imm officers NO. 

Good luck with income method. And yes I did read thread where member did it successfully. Just waiting for sh""hit fan. 

Whether they have fixed income, investment returns, social, pension, assault on the piggy bank, lottery payout etc for a month, I think they are likely to lump all these into one single money transfer.  Will the bank check these 12 monthly transactions, they can if they want to. Is it difficult, of course not if they are computerized.

 

[jacko45k]

On 1/16/2019 at 9:55 PM, sumrit said:

of requesting that money be transferred using the Bangkok Bank because they show its an International Transfer

Not always, it could show as a domestic transfer. 

[gk10002000]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:27 PM, JLCrab said:

Especially if one spends time in the USA you can get an O-A visa in USA no Thai bank account required and no monthly transfers.

you can get the OA in the usa, but for future retirement extensions you have then deal with stuff in Thailand.  It would be nice if one started with an OA visa while in their home country then all future extensions could be done just using the funds and methods in the home country.  After all, if the VISA was good enough to begin with, then why can't things just be left alone.

[gk10002000]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 5:58 PM, jacko45k said:

You may as well ask why their Embassies make it so hard by refusing to issue any more verification letters. TI are making it easier by giving them an alternative method.

You say foreign bank accounts, surely you mean local ones.

Foreign I mean a Thai bank account.  While that may make it easy for Thai officials, it brings up issues for some people that now have to open up Thai accounts.  One example is reporting foreign contacts, businesses, etc that has to be reported on security investigation forms.  I have no particular desire, and previously no need to open a Thai bank account.  yes there are some valid reasons besides this new immigration effort, but opening such account was never required before

[gk10002000]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 7:50 PM, sumrit said:

Not entirely accurate. It's NOT money you have already spent, it's a minimum amount of money you have been forced to transfer into a Thai Bank from overseas every month, whether you actually need the money in Thailand or not. 

Yes a waste of time and money and costs for months when somebody may not even be in Thailand, say traveling home for a while before going back to Thailand.  

[onera1961]

On 1/16/2019 at 2:30 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Shame Immigration dropped the ball immediately

I will shame to embassies who dropped the ball and kudos to TI to accommodate panicked people without pushing them to 400K/800K method or agents. 

[onera1961]

On 1/16/2019 at 12:33 AM, JackThompson said:

Thanks for this.  Many were under the false-impression that a Bangkok Bank account would always show Transferwise-transfers as international.  Clearly, this is not the case.

Last year (2018) out of 50 or so transfer (I transfer every week 15K Baht even when I am not in Thailand) using Transferwise to Bangkok Bank, only three are coded non FTT.  This year so far all codings are FTT. Listing in my mobile app shows International Transfer (no code)

Edited January 18, 2019 by onera1961

[Thaidream]

5 hours ago, onera1961 said:

ast year (2018) out of 50 or so transfer (I transfer every week 15K Baht even when I am not in Thailand) using Transferwise to Bangkok Bank, only three are coded non FTT.  This year so far all codings are FTT. Listing in my mobile app shows International Transfer (no code)

The Keeping it Simple proviso now does not seem so simple=

-If one makes 12 transfers per year- each month- there are 12 entries in the Passbook the IO is going to look at.  However, if one is making more than 12 at various amounts based on income there maybe many items-  the IO will allegedly- add them all up- check the coding- possibly check the Bank letter which apparently verifies the account is open and is true.

 

Then there is the coding on each transfer- it appears each bank has its own codes- not only FTT and each transfer even if international may not be coded as such and then there is the Transferwise conundrum- will an Imm Officer want to look through not only 12 transfers (or more) add them all up-and then look through the  documentation- another 12 sheets of paper proving  there were indeed 12  international transfers.

 

I have a feeling they will end up not caring about whether they are International transfers but only whether there is 65K in the account each month.  Otherwise- the lines will get longer  and longer.  So much for the KISS principle.