Kasikorn Bank can't confirm UK pension comes from abroad?

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Is that really what it is? I thought it was some sort of instruction specific to banks.

Yes it is. The bank letter will be about the same one they already do for the money in the bank option. It will just confirm your account is valid.

[allen303]

3 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Since the title of this thread includes "UK Pensions" you're not likely to get many people reading your post who are "in the US using a credit union."

 

Start a new thread in the Home Country forum mentioning US Credit Unions.

 

Also reread what you wrote before re-posting. Things like "then transfer down hall" or  "Changing Government deposit plans takes both directions," don't make a lot of sense even in context.

 

Ask your credit union if they can do ACH transfers in the IAT format. Not likely, but if they can, then open a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand and have your credit union send deposits to the New York branch of Bangkok Bank. 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

My CU will not send to BB in NYC, but sending money to BB in NYC then they move to BB in Thailand ends Apr. 1.

[geoffbezoz]

And to confirm Ksikorns reply to my email enquiry mentioned in another thread, which is now closed, I have just received this.

 

"Anyhow, from a primary checking we would like to inform you that the Teller MCLxxxx are unable to issue a credit advice due to the systems is define that the transaction has made from a the local channels not an international transaction.
 
Therefore, we do suggest you to contact the sender bank and request for the MT 103 or the transaction evidence by yourself directly. truly apologize for the inconvenience caused."

 

So the choice is either to not use Transferwise when sending money from the UK to Kasikorn bank, rather use SWIFT direct from the UK bank to Kasikorn, or else if using Transferwise it will need to be sent to your Bangkok Bank account (if you have one) in order that the yearly Bank Statement as required by the TI, lists the transactions as International Transfers.

 

No idea why the fonts change !!!

[Sheryl]

44 minutes ago, DPKANKAN said:

If you go into your Kasikorn online account under account management, statement enquiry, service channel heading the income shows up as an INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND FACTORING CENTRE action with a transaction reference number.

That is useful to know, I never noticed the "Description of service channel " tab.

 

But (1) it goes back only 6 months.  So one would have to remember to download it at the half year mark.  (2) Despite this, local branch staff state they are unable to access information on source of transfers.  (3) Are you sure Imm will accept a print out of your online statement? They seem to want to see bank book, not print out statement.

 

I'm having trouble understanding why the strong objection to having the same bank letter that confirms the account and its balance confirm that the transfers came from abroad. I've been doing exactly that for 15 years and my IO has been happy with it.

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it is. The bank letter will be about the same one they already do for the money in the bank option. It will just confirm your account is valid.

And you feel certain there is no need for this letter to confirm funds came from abroad? Even in  cases where the bank book does not contain that information?

[TechnikaIII]

Kasikorn Bank was set up for Thai farmers, so their expertise extends barely a few muddy paces from the rice fields. 

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

And you feel certain there is no need for this letter to confirm funds came from abroad? Even in  cases where the bank book does not contain that information?

If the bank book does not show it they may be able to confirm it in some way. I wonder if a bank statement will show it. Immigrations requirement is for it to certify your account not that it came from abroad.

All my transfers to Bangkok Bank show a FTT code and the online printout shows international transfer.

[Sheryl]

14 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The statement with notes means that you/your bank/your IO has no need to bother about the codes as each entry has an explanation of where it came from or where it went (last 4 digits of the account number + account holders name)

 

so the statment  is the primary proof of international transfers

 

i have several statements with notes that contain too much personal data to post, even redacted but I can post the headings 

 

online request

 

Used at immigration 

Is this from Kasikorn Bank?

 

As banks are nto identical in what they provide.

 

Statements I have gotten from Kasikorn do not contain language that clearly identify source of foreign transfers. And they do contain many codes.

[geoffbezoz]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

And you feel certain there is no need for this letter to confirm funds came from abroad? Even in  cases where the bank book does not contain that information?

But for an extension based on marriage it clearly states in the translation published that these funds must originate outside Thailand so hence be listed on a statement as an international transfer. Or did I and others misread it somehow ?

 

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If the bank book does not show it they may be able to confirm it in some way. I wonder if a bank statement will show it. Immigrations requirement is for it to certify your account not that it came from abroad.

All my transfers to Bangkok Bank show a FTT code and the online printout shows international transfer.

If you go to my recent post no 123 above you will see exactly what Kasikorn's response was to me this morning on the matter.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If the bank book does not show it they may be able to confirm it in some way. I wonder if a bank statement will show it. Immigrations requirement is for it certify you account not that it came from abroad.

All my transfers to Bangkok Bank show a FTT code and the online printout shows international transfer.

Understood, but the whole point of this thread is that banks differ in this regard. Soem do nto identify foreign vs domestic transfers in the pass book nor ordinary printout statements. And i nthe case of TW the transfer in fact comes in doemstically.

 

A bank can confirm that funds originated abroad  (though the account holder may have to supply some documentation to them first).

 

But Iif that information ios not contained in the passbook or statement then I do not see how they would then convey this to immigration except via a letter from the bank, either separate letter or included as a short paragraph in the same letter that confirms the account.

 

And that is what I have successfully done for many years when my IO required proof of origin of the funds.

 

I'm not sure what the objection is to this? My IO has been fine with it (4 separate Imm offices over the years, including in the past Bangkok.)

[Sheryl]

25 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

And to confirm Ksikorns reply to my email enquiry mentioned in another thread, which is now closed, I have just received this.

 

"Anyhow, from a primary checking we would like to inform you that the Teller MCLxxxx are unable to issue a credit advice due to the systems is define that the transaction has made from a the local channels not an international transaction.
 
Therefore, we do suggest you to contact the sender bank and request for the MT 103 or the transaction evidence by yourself directly. truly apologize for the inconvenience caused."

 

So the choice is either to not use Transferwise when sending money from the UK to Kasikorn bank, rather use SWIFT direct from the UK bank to Kasikorn, or else if using Transferwise it will need to be sent to your Bangkok Bank account (if you have one) in order that the yearly Bank Statement as required by the TI, lists the transactions as International Transfers.

 

No idea why the fonts change !!!
 

From another poster's response from TW it appears that even having your account at Bangkok Bank will not always work as they sometimes use TMB and Kasikorn rather than Bkk Bank to send funds to intitially.

 

Someone should contact TW to see if it is possible when making a transfer to request which of these 3 institutions is used.  If it is possiblefor Kasikorn bank users to have TW transfer direct to Kasikorn, problem solved.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They can confirm it (though the account holder may have to supply some documentation to them first).

 

But I do not see how they would then convey this to immigration except via a letter from the bank, either separate letter or included as a short paragraph in the same letter that confirms the account.

I agree that immigration should accept the confirmation that the transfers came from abroad in the letter from the bank if the bank will do it.

I will be able to show immigration my bank book and the online print out showing the transfers going back for 12 months.

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

From another poster's response from TW it appears that even having your account at Bangkok Bank will not always work as they sometimes use TMB and Kasikorn rather than Bkk Bank to send funds to intitially.

 

Someone should contact TW to see if it is possible when making a transfer to request which of these 3 institutions is used.  If it is possiblefor Kasikorn bank users to have TW transfer direct to Kasikorn, problem solved.

In another thread I read yesterday they have been contacted already and they advised that they use 3 banks for the transfers. TMB, BKK and one another that I can not remember.  The understanding being that it appears not to be able to be requested as to which one they transfer initially to in Thailand. I did a test transfer Monday from the UK to my BKK bank and it was indeed listed as an international transfer but the impressions elsewhere then as you said even that could change. A complete mess if you ask me as previously for a marriage extension, when income was confirmed by the embassy, there was no requirement for that money to even be transferred into a Thai account so why they are now stipulating is should be is a fundamental policy change, impacting  those of us using the likes of Tranferwise etc. together with other issues as your own.

[GreasyFingers]

1 hour ago, DPKANKAN said:

If you go into your Kasikorn online account under account management, statement enquiry, service channel heading the income shows up as an INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND FACTORING CENTRE action with a transaction reference number.

My K statement has: "Domestic Money Transfer BNT00001". The code BNT00001 does not exist in their Service Channel descriptions.

 

As I transfer through OFX it appears that I am caught up in their system as described by another poster i.e. OFX-Barclays-Bangkok Bank-Kasikorn.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

I've seen many reports (plus my own experience) that other banks are hit & miss, regardless of which intermediary bank gets used, but I've only ever seen reports that BBL is always a hit.

I believe I saw one post claiming to transfer to Bangkok Bank from Transferwise multiple times and 2 out of 12 in the last year did not show up as International. Perhaps my error or the posters? 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, DPKANKAN said:

If you go into your Kasikorn online account under account management, statement enquiry, service channel heading the income shows up as an INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND FACTORING CENTRE action with a transaction reference number.

I have just done that and it shows as 

 

DUMMY BRANCH MCL07416

 

The same information as on my last 6 transfers.

 

Sorry about that.

[SooKee]

If the bank letter merely needs to confirm the account and they rely on the bank book for evidence of the deposits it may actually bode better.  I can see it getting quite difficult for Immigration though if they have to have a list of the codes for every bank you could use and start looking up your transfers to check.  Best result in that case is that they'd skim read the book just to look for 12 x 65K+ deposits and not start digging in to codes unless they think there's a problem.  In that case you might have some leeway using a PDF statement from TW as a supporting document showing the transfers with the target baht amounts tallying exactly with the bank book.  Lots of 'mights' with that approach though and leaves a hell of a lot down to luck and having an IO that is in a helpful frame of mind.  Guess it'll become clearer what they will look for and what they will / will not accept as supporting documentation as the year goes on, especially post June when the last of the embassy letters get used.

 

Much as I don't really want to I plan to try an open an account with Bangkok Bank to try and iron out the (too many) ifs and buts of using Kasikorn.  I'll also watch over the course of the year, assuming I can open an account, to see that each and every transfer to BKK Bank does get registered as international, I've seen at least one reference to a transfer from TW to BKK Bank showing up as local but still less of a crap shoot than with Kasikorn.

[trd]

I have just done that and it shows as 
 
DUMMY BRANCH MCL07416
 
The same information as on my last 6 transfers.
 
Sorry about that.

If you show that to immigration they will certainly think you are a DUMMY for not understanding the simple rules for what is accepted. It's amusing to see how some have got it into their heads that they can negotiate their paperwork with immigration. I've been doing this for 20 years and they won't budge on what is acceptable.

[ocddave]

Just setup the online version of the SCB account I opened back in November, which allows me to view the previous months statements. I am showing three deposits on 11/20/2018, 11/29/2018, and 12/24/2018 from Transferwise, all show up as follows.

 

Transaction = X1

Channel = ATS

Description = MCL XXXXXXXXXX 00002

 

I assume that won't show up as International Transfers, not sure if the letter I get later will do that or not.

 

 

[jesimps]

I'm with SCB and my statement doesn't indicate an international transfer either (using TransferWise). Under "Transaction" it says "XI" which means Transfer Deposit and under "Channel" it says "ATS" meaning Automated Transfer System. Other than using a transfer direct from my bank I can't see a way around this. Also, my extension is due the beginning of October which means that I won't be able to show 12 monthly transfers of 65,000 THB, unless they allow us to average out over a shorter time. Luckily, I am able to transfer 800,000 for the lump sum deposit if I can't find a solution to the monthly transfer problem.

I realise I could open an account with Bangkok Bank, but I'd prefer not to, I'm already with three banks here.

[SooKee]

What becomes clearer going back through every TW PDF receipt I have online is that in my case it only shows up as an international transfer if they use SWIFT.  Over the year I've only had two show up as International, both designated as SWIFT transfers, one where they used TMB and one where they used BKK bank as the local business partner, so the partner they use when using SWIFT seems irrelevant.

 

Every other transfer is listed by TW as Local Bank Transfer and in those cases they've used TMB, Kasikorn and BKK Bank, makes no difference, all MCL coded transfers.  So with TW it seems not so much getting them to use a specific partner bank, more to getting them to send the transfer by SWIFT.

 

As to what can be negotiated with Immigration, truth is, nobody knows yet.  Given that it seems there are multiple methods in use by Thai banks for showing international transfer (with very few involving the actual wording), even if the TX has been bank to bank using SWIFT so unless they want to start referring to pages of transaction codes it might indeed just prove easier for them to ask you to show it's coming from abroad in those instances where they chose to dig deeper.  We'll see.

Edited January 9, 2019 by SooKee

[colinchaffers]

I contacted TW and asked them how they routed their payments, they said they transferred the payment locally from the 3 banks you mention, this is there business model. I think where you do have the swift code its because for what ever reason they could not transfer it locally and sent it over.   

[ocddave]

3 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

I contacted TW and asked them how they routed their payments, they said they transferred the payment locally from the 3 banks you mention, this is there business model. I think where you do have the swift code its because for what ever reason they could not transfer it locally and sent it over.   

I am guessing Immigration Police aren't exactly aware that the world is more connected than ever, and that there are many ways for money to travel between countries/banks/etc. Which would explain the mountain of papers we hand them every year, especially when almost every human on earth has some form of Internet connectivity. They must have a massive warehouse somewhere just to hold all these useless pieces of paper, save a tree, use a computer!

[billd766]

34 minutes ago, trd said:

58 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I have just done that and it shows as 
 
DUMMY BRANCH MCL07416
 
The same information as on my last 6 transfers.
 
Sorry about that.

If you show that to immigration they will certainly think you are a DUMMY for not understanding the simple rules for what is accepted. It's amusing to see how some have got it into their heads that they can negotiate their paperwork with immigration. I've been doing this for 20 years and they won't budge on what is acceptable.

 

Where have I said that I am negotiating with Immigration?

 

Follow the thread backwards and you will see that I responded to another poster about what he claimed.

 

Try reading and understanding the context of the post.

 

I am not interested in what you have done for the past 20 years, as it is not relevant to the thread, which is about the Kasikorn bank and TransferWise.

Edited January 9, 2019 by billd766
added extra text

[colinchaffers]

30 minutes ago, SooKee said:

If the bank letter merely needs to confirm the account and they rely on the bank book for evidence of the deposits it may actually bode better.  I can see it getting quite difficult for Immigration though if they have to have a list of the codes for every bank you could use and start looking up your transfers to check.  Best result in that case is that they'd skim read the book just to look for 12 x 65K+ deposits and not start digging in to codes unless they think there's a problem.  In that case you might have some leeway using a PDF statement from TW as a supporting document showing the transfers with the target baht amounts tallying exactly with the bank book.  Lots of 'mights' with that approach though and leaves a hell of a lot down to luck and having an IO that is in a helpful frame of mind.  Guess it'll become clearer what they will look for and what they will / will not accept as supporting documentation as the year goes on, especially post June when the last of the embassy letters get used.

 

Much as I don't really want to I plan to try an open an account with Bangkok Bank to try and iron out the (too many) ifs and buts of using Kasikorn.  I'll also watch over the course of the year, assuming I can open an account, to see that each and every transfer to BKK Bank does get registered as international, I've seen at least one reference to a transfer from TW to BKK Bank showing up as local but still less of a crap shoot than with Kasikorn.

The issue you will have is that they don't always send money, but transfer it from a bank locally, additionally they have three banks they use so it will be pot luck. I'm not sure TW will agree to give a statement saying its a international transfer when its in fact a local one. I'm going to use OFX whos rate is nearly as good, who always send the money and who use Bangkok Bank ???? as its intermediary bank. I've yet to test the system. 

 

BTW: the new rules say "and a bank statement showing money transfer from overseas" which probably can include your pass book.   

[trd]

I contacted TW and asked them how they routed their payments, they said they transferred the payment locally from the 3 banks you mention, this is there business model. I think where you do have the swift code its because for what ever reason they could not transfer it locally and sent it over.   

Apart from the transfer fee, I think they are making money by continually trading currencies. How else would they have the funds in local foreign Banks. So let's say you want to send one £1 from your UK bank to Thailand. You send one £1 to TW UK account. They instruct their local office to pay you 45 baht from their Thai account. Let's say the exchange rate changes to 44 baht for £1. The local Thai office of TW sends 44 Baht back to the UK to get £1. 1 baht in profit remains in the Thai account. If they think the Thai baht is going to get strong then they can just transfer sterling into their Thai account and transfer it back to sterling when it gets weak thereby making a profit.

[trd]

 
Where have I said that I am negotiating with Immigration?
 
Follow the thread backwards and you will see that I responded to another poster about what he claimed.
 
Try reading and understanding the context of the post.
 
I am not interested in what you have done for the past 20 years, as it is not relevant to the thread, which is about the Kasikorn bank and TransferWise.

Read my post. I said some. I'm wasn't talking about you specifically. A bit sensitive are you?

[colinchaffers]

8 minutes ago, ocddave said:

I am guessing Immigration Police aren't exactly aware that the world is more connected than ever, and that there are many ways for money to travel between countries/banks/etc. Which would explain the mountain of papers we hand them every year, especially when almost every human on earth has some form of Internet connectivity. They must have a massive warehouse somewhere just to hold all these useless pieces of paper, save a tree, use a computer!

i think you are right I think they have defined the system based on the old (banking) way of doing things, which will work. 

[geoffbezoz]

5 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

i think you are right I think they have defined the system based on the old (banking) way of doing things, which will work. 

Come on folks, why should you think Thai immigration is different to anywhere else in Thailand ? No different from Global House, Tesco Lotus or Homepro to name but three where the business model is to employ hundreds, if not thousands of staff, poorly trained and completely unmotivated on such a very low wage, rather than have a few better paid, highly skilled and motivated personnel in order to operate effectively and efficiently.

Edited January 9, 2019 by geoffbezoz